Well after posing the question of anyone with Bad experiences with Blue Dot loads,(particularly in the 223)....

Guess lets ask the other side of the equation...

How many forum members have had GOOD LUCK with 223 Blue Dot loads or loads in other calibers???...) (or at least care to come forward with them...)..

Not looking for a pat on the back.. looking for a score board of those that have had problems with those loads, and those that have NOT... .and find it does what I say it will, and hence my motivation for sharing it...

Because if problems exist for others that don't exist for me, I need to know it, to either adjust or repeal the posting of the load data for safety's sake...

Thanks in advance to all whom respond, both positively and negatively...

cheers
seafire

I'll say that I've used Blue Dot in 223, 243, 7-08, 30-06 with excellent results. I'm careful, I don't care to try to match the high velocities of full power loads, I watch for problems quite carefully.

Works for me.

Thanks, Seafire, for your work on this issue.

No, I haven't called Alliant.

223 and 13.5gr of BD and 52gr A-maxs 2.28" OAL

22/250 with 17.5gr of BD and 52gr A-maxs 2.4" OAL

Nothing but excellent loads. Very happy.

Basic testing done on BD in 243 and VERY happy with one holers at 50 yards. and quiet loads. Outdoor range time will be coming soon and I will be working out more specifics at 100 yards.

50+ years of loading has taught me to be properly respectful when I venture off the beaten path, but it's also taught me to recognize when I am operating inside a comfortable safety margin. So far, this is well considered and safe. If I need to go to the top of the BD range I know well I will be in an area where I need to be much more cautious and careful.

Can't say about BD for the .223, but I use BD in my .243 and have an EXTREMELY accurate load. But, I'm not trying to load to maximum pressure. I'm using reduced pressure loads. I, too, am extremely cautious when using Blue Dot or SR4759 for reduced loads.

My experience has made me a believer. I load my Blue Dot loads on the light side because, after all, a reduced load is what I'm wanting from it. Velocities with a .223/50 gr. Hndy run about 2850 and with a .22H/35 gr VMax about 2500 fps. Velocitiy deviations are actually less, especially for the Hornet, than with more conventional powders for these cartridges. Both group as well as any "full power" load from each rifle. And it's soooo easy on the barrels, ears, and pocketbooks (as well as raising fewer complaints from my wife in the house just a couple of hundred yards away).

I would strongly encourage anyone using Seafire's Blue Dot Loads to:
1. Always use Pistol Primers. The reason for this is it provides a Safety Valve if for some reason your Load is too Hot and creates a Pressure Spike above where it should be. If that happens and you are using Pistol Primers, you would possibly get some of the Primer Brass blasted toward your eye if the Primer is "Pierced". But, it greatly reduces the chance of a Ka-Boom. Of course, in a double charge, you would still get the Ka-Boom.
2. I would encourage you to use CHE & PRE to compare the Case Expansion with a group of Factory Cartridges. This is the only sure way to know "your Load" is still at a SAFE Pressure.
3. Always work up the Load from below while watching for the Pressure Indicators.
4. Velocity won't tell you spit about the Pressure.
5. If you have ANY reservations at all about using Blue Dot in a Reduced Load, or if you just want to be on the SAFE side, call the Alliant Technical folks at 800 276-9337 and see what they have to say about all of it.
6. Remember that it only costs 3-4 cents more per Cartridge to use a Powder which has been Factory Tested.

Best of luck to all you folks

Oh yes, nearly forgot to include the Blue Dot Ka-Boom thread.

Much like Stonecreek,my Blue Dot loads that I use in two 223s are on the light side.In one its 10grs and one is 10.8grs both using 50gr hornadys.Both are very accurate and do what I want,and have proven safe from 95 degree summer days to down to zero winter days.So I am very happy with them.One thing I might add that no one has mentioned,and may be the cause of some of the problems is brass inspection.Since these loads are not low pressure loads,I inspect and prepare each case the same as I do for full power loads.That includes checking primer pockets and for case head separation.Any defects and the whole lot is tossed,same as I would with any load.

I have loaded hundreds of BD loads for .223 bolt guns from 10-14 gr using 40gr VMax bullets without a single problem. Accurate, fast, and cheap.

For many generations german Foersters used the old 9.3x72 R cartridge in their drillings. They shot everything from tiny roe deer up to big rutting stags and wild boars, killing them well. They also claimed that meat destruction was very close to non-existing.

This cartridge which was born still in the blackpowder area pushed a 12.5 gram SPFP bullet to about 650 m/s or 2130 fps. It is no longer available in factory rifles where the much more powerful 9.3x74 R has taken over.

Using either Blue Dot or Vihta N110 you can replicate the old cartridge's performance with a 9.3x74 mm rifle, using the VERY cheap S&B bullets. The only minor problem is that the old cartridge adn thus, the S&B bullets, as well, are .364 diameter whereas the new one is .366 inch. I figure this being the reason why I cannot get groups with less than 60 mm at 100 meters which for woods hunting is fine. There is a company in belgiu, which once in a while manufactures the 12,5 grain SPFP in .366, once it is available again I will give it a try.

I appologize for not exactly being a "small caliber" experience.

I've used it in the 7.62x54R to tame a Nagant carbine plus extensively in the 358Win with 158gr and 170gr pistol projectiles. Brilliant for reduced loads and I take extra care to ensure a double charge doesnt occur. I'm trying to find time to load it in my Martini Cadet 222Rimmed AI to duplicate a 22Hornet load.
Cheers...
Con

I have used BD in 45-70 for the last two hunting seasons. None of the deer have been able to tell the difference between BD and some other powder.

I use 20gr of BD with a 300gr SP bullet. This load is very accurate to 200yds. Beyond that I have not tried. With the price of ammo going up, I am going to find a cast load to use next year.

In my .257 Roberts I have had great accuracy and no problems with 20.0 gr. BD and 100 gr. Sierra Pro Hunters. Also used 23 gr. BD in a 30-06 with 150 gr. bullets and no problem. I like shooting BD for the low recoil and noise level for practice and beaver killing. Merg

I have loaded Blue Dot in .223 and .308 with no problems. I have stayed at or under the recommended loads.Both rifles are Remington bolt action.

I have loaded countless rounds for the .223 Rem and .308 WCF using Blue Dot and have had excellent results. I have loaded for several other calibers but to a lesser degree.

Excellent case life and absolutely minimal trimming are a couple of the benefits that seldom get mentioned. In fact, one batch of .223 brass is now on its 11th firing and, other than the initial trim to square things up, has yet to require any trimming as it is still under the recommended max length. Considering these were fired from a break-open single shot makes this even more significant. (Do I need a strain gauge to tell me this??? I don't think so... )

The shot-to-shot consistency of the Blue Dot loads is among the best of any powder I've ever used, and the accuracy is excellent.

I will continue to use it. And most folks intelligent enough to recognize the benefits of Blue Dot and accomplished and competent enough as a seasoned loader to understand the risks of loading with ANY powder will do so as well.

All others should probably stick the the boxed stuff from Wally World...

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby Tomek:
....I will continue to use it. And most folks intelligent enough to recognize the benefits of Blue Dot and accomplished and competent enough as a seasoned loader to understand the risks of loading with ANY powder will do so as well.

All others should probably stick the the boxed stuff from Wally World...

Well said Bobby Tomek,

I think that pretty well sums it up. I haven't tried any BD rifle loads yet, but when I do, that will be the approach I will take.

I'm going to keep using Blue Dot. I'm going to keep staying very in-tune with what I'm doing when I'm reloading. Just as I've read horror stories about Blue Dot (but not many), I've also had guys tell me they wouldn't shoot any reloaded round in their guns because of some horror story they had heard or read about. Reloading can produce disastrous results even if your trying to reload published loads but you aren't following safe reloading procedures. I had a guy refuse to buy a rifle from me because I had been using reloaded ammunition in it

I learned from Seafire about blue dot in .223 4 years ago, right here on AR.

Thousands of rounds later, I am going to keep doing Blue Dot in .223.

And so are some other guys that learned from me.

Fired 100 rounds from my .222 Remington, 11 grains BD, 53 grain bullet, low noise, high precision, primers showed low pressure, no problem at all experienced.

I have had really good results with BD for .223 in 3 different rifles. (Both my children's rifles).
In my 243 and 270/08.
Thanks seafire.

19-1 with the one coming from someone who needs to buy the white box at Wally World as state.

Make that 20-1
I use blue dot for "urban fox removals" with my 22-250. 13gns and a 52gn Amax do nicely thank you!
For those detrators -
Reloading is very simple: pay attention!
It couldn't be simpler. I also use blue dot in 6.5x55 to great effect, thank you Seafire for sharing your data.

I as well have excellent results w/BDot in .223 rem.I load 10gr under any 50-52gr slug.With that said I'm sure 4895(no fault of its own) has blown more than one rifle apart and we still use it.Doing any type of reloading is dangerous. If you can't handle it,many companies make great ammo.

dsmit50 wrote:

quote:

If you can't handle it,many companies make great ammo.

-------

Ah, how true that statement rings! And for at least one individual who shall remain nameless, the Wal-Marts of the world also have several varieties of cork guns...

Thanks again, seafire, for all your work with the Blue Dot loads.

quote:

Originally posted by Two tone:

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby Tomek:
....I will continue to use it. And most folks intelligent enough to recognize the benefits of Blue Dot and accomplished and competent enough as a seasoned loader to understand the risks of loading with ANY powder will do so as well.

All others should probably stick the the boxed stuff from Wally World...

Well said Bobby Tomek,

I think that pretty well sums it up. I haven't tried any BD rifle loads yet, but when I do, that will be the approach I will take.

I've since used BD in 30-30, 45/70 and 416 Rigby with a paper patched cast bullet.

BTW, I also use it in 10 and 12 gauge shotshells and 44 mag pistol cartridges. You have to carefully measure the powder for those too. It doesn't suddenly become taboo because its in a rifle case IMO.

I used to check for uniform powder levels of all the charged cases with a flashlight before bullet seating. Now I dispense and weigh each charge with my new RCBS Chargemaster. Nice machine.

I have been using bluedot loads in my 16" contender for 15 yrs with no issues. But I'm cautious and only use individually weighed powder charges with anything that is more than 1/10th of a gr high or low thrown back in the measure.

Got my original load data from James Calhoon.

Great 223 powder much better than 800X that I was using before.

Good luck, no.

I have had excellent accuracy with blue dot in the .223 and .308. Thing is I haven't used it in over a year and can't seem to find my load notes

I actually need to find the charge weights for the .308, because it shot tiny groups with the 110 gr bullets, and that gun shoots them horribly when pushed at full patch levels.

quote:

Originally posted by Paul H:
Good luck, no.

I have had excellent accuracy with blue dot in the .223 and .308. Thing is I haven't used it in over a year and can't seem to find my load notes

I actually need to find the charge weights for the .308, because it shot tiny groups with the 110 gr bullets, and that gun shoots them horribly when pushed at full patch levels.

Paul, My .308 seems to work well with these lighter bullets with 20 to 24 gr. BLUE DOT. roger

I love Blue Dot loads for their performance and reduced noise. I started using it after reading a Varmint Hunter article by Calhoon and will continue to use it.

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:

quote:

Originally posted by Paul H:
Good luck, no.

I have had excellent accuracy with blue dot in the .223 and .308. Thing is I haven't used it in over a year and can't seem to find my load notes

I actually need to find the charge weights for the .308, because it shot tiny groups with the 110 gr bullets, and that gun shoots them horribly when pushed at full patch levels.

Paul, My .308 seems to work well with these lighter bullets with 20 to 24 gr. BLUE DOT. roger

Roger, I hope you are mistaken and speaking of a 30/06...

18 to 22 grains is hopefully what you meant..

any 308 casae shoots a MAX load of 22.5 grains of Blue Dot SAFELY regardless of bullet weight.... and regardless of bore diameter to 30 caliber..

quote:

Originally posted by Paul H:
Good luck, no.

I have had excellent accuracy with blue dot in the .223 and .308. Thing is I haven't used it in over a year and can't seem to find my load notes

I actually need to find the charge weights for the .308, because it shot tiny groups with the 110 gr bullets, and that gun shoots them horribly when pushed at full patch levels.

Paul..

originally I tested Blue Dot with the 308 cases with bullet weights from 110 to 168...from loads as low as 10 grains to a max charge of 22.5 grains..

right around 20 grains really seemed to be a sweet spot in a lot of 308s from the emails that were sent to me...

In the spirit of the season, I do hope all you folks who have been duped into using Blue Dot Reduced Loads do not end up eventually Ka-Booming yourselves.
-----

For any of the new-comers to AR, Beginning Reloaders, Rookies, or people with good sense , there is one Golden Rule of Thumb that should never be broken: "Only use Reloads which can be found in a Powder or Bullet Manufacturer's Manual."

As for the Blue Dot Loads:
1. Here is a Link to as close to a Blue Dot Reduced Load Ka-Boom as you can get.
2. Here is a real Blue Dot Reduced Load Ka-Boom.
3. And a thread where Dr. Oehler found Pressure can increase by 50% simply due to there not being enough Powder in a Case.
4. There are two other Ka-Booms on the Reloading Board(here is that link) that also appears to be where people just decided to go "outside the Manuals" and create their own Reduced Loads.

The real problem is you just never know when a "Pressure Excursion", "Secondary Explosion Effect", or a "Ka-Boom" may decide to happen with the Blue Dot Reduced Loads. PO Ackley worked a long time to see the results with various Powders which is documented in his Handbook for Shooters and Reloaders(a 2-volume set).

Sooooo, best wishes to everyone.

Wow,

I'm surprised to see this old thread resurrected.

I'm even more surprised to see how long it took old HC to jump back on it.

Have been using a lot of Blue Dot here. No problems for me in 223 and 243. I don't try to go near "regular" velocity either. That's the whole point of reduced loads.

Happy Holidays and Merry Christmas

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
In the spirit of the season, I do hope all you folks who have been duped into using Blue Dot Reduced Loads do not end up eventually Ka-Booming yourselves.
-----

For any of the new-comers to AR, Beginning Reloaders, Rookies, or people with good sense , there is one Golden Rule of Thumb that should never be broken: "Only use Reloads which can be found in a Powder or Bullet Manufacturer's Manual."

As for the Blue Dot Loads:
1. Here is a Link to as close to a Blue Dot Reduced Load Ka-Boom as you can get.
2. Here is a real Blue Dot Reduced Load Ka-Boom.
3. And a thread where Dr. Oehler found Pressure can increase by 50% simply due to there not being enough Powder in a Case.
4. There are two other Ka-Booms on the Reloading Board(here is that link) that also appears to be where people just decided to go "outside the Manuals" and create their own Reduced Loads.

The real problem is you just never know when a "Pressure Excursion", "Secondary Explosion Effect", or a "Ka-Boom" may decide to happen with the Blue Dot Reduced Loads. PO Ackley worked a long time to see the results with various Powders which is documented in his Handbook for Shooters and Reloaders(a 2-volume set).

Sooooo, best wishes to everyone.

ever watch Charlie Brown holiday specials..

remember the trombone sounds used for when teachers etc, are yelling at the kids..

WaWaWaWa... that one..

well, it applies to the above post.. as it is a broken record...

while 100s of thousands of rounds have been fired with Blue Dot by a lot of users...someone likes to try and keep track of ANY remote potential of a screw up.. which so far has been admitted as operator error in reloading practices..

same reload principals apply when handloading pistol cartridges..which millions are done every year...

one can show an example of a rifle blow up with about ANY powder....
Use your head... and if you want to listen to chickenlittle naythesayers, well that is alright too.. .probably indicates you aren't sure of what you are doing at your load bench, so maybe you shouldn't reload anything that is not 1000% "idiot proof".. but remember there are no guarantees there either...

I use a lot of other powders besides just Blue Dot, contrary to popular belief...

but blowups are more the fault of the handloader not either understanding the powders parameters he is using.. or not understanding reloading safety procedures....

blaming any powder as being a potential to a rifle blow up, is like comparing the dangers of a parked car, to car accidents..

stupidity or carelessness has to be applied before it becomes a problem...

contrary to your usual fluff above there H/C pissing on Blue Dot..

I wish you and your family a Merry Christmas and a Happy, Healthful and abundant new year..

quote:

Originally posted by seafire/B17G:

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:

quote:

Originally posted by Paul H:
Good luck, no.

I have had excellent accuracy with blue dot in the .223 and .308. Thing is I haven't used it in over a year and can't seem to find my load notes

I actually need to find the charge weights for the .308, because it shot tiny groups with the 110 gr bullets, and that gun shoots them horribly when pushed at full patch levels.

Paul, My .308 seems to work well with these lighter bullets with 20 to 24 gr. BLUE DOT. roger

Roger, I hope you are mistaken and speaking of a 30/06...

18 to 22 grains is hopefully what you meant..

any 308 casae shoots a MAX load of 22.5 grains of Blue Dot SAFELY regardless of bullet weight.... and regardless of bore diameter to 30 caliber..

Not at all! What I stated is what worked in THIS RIFLE. Don't be pissed at me HC. what is is but safely done. roger

Hot Core -- aka melting at the seams -- is the only one aboard without the competence or proficiency to use this data safely. He really should stick to the Wal-Mart cork guns. After all, isn't that what he used to kill those "many thousands" of deer...

Roger,

thought I would send this to you off line..

if you are able to run 24 grains of Blue Dot in a 308, then that is contrary to what I have been able to see..

22.5 grains has proven safe max, regardless of bullet weight... between 110 and 168 grains..

I have ran it as high as 24, but was experiencing BLOWN primers all over the place.. and also a lot of case had loose primer pockets..

didn't want to make this an on line argument for general forum... I'm just reflecting what I was finding as the safe max being..
This is from Sea Fire.
John, Thank you for your thoughtfulness. I know where you are coming from and I think what you say here has real value. I chose to attach your PM to this thread as I'm sure others will gain from it and it may preclude someone getting hurt.
to me this illustrates the care that must be exercised when reloading, paticularly fast burning powders in rifles. I truely believe that temperature, primer selection, case manufacture, primer fit, chamber size, oal, throat dia. and length, and rifling lead play a greater role here which well may explain our different results ; not to mention different powder lots.
I trust, that you, as I, see that this open exchange of information really is good stuff and just might help to create more brain execise when risk factors become greater in some areas of reloading. roger

When debate has arisen between Seafire and Hotsh#t I've had good luck following this rule:

Seafire is always right and Hotsh#t is full of sh#t!!!! JMHO

And a Merry Christmas to you Hotsh#t!!!!! Hoping the Holidays find you well.

Good post Roger!

222, 30-30, 30-06, 7.7X58, 338 Win Mag.
Great accurate load in each within the parameters set some time ago.