Well I finally go the cases for my 400 PDK formed this weekend. This wildcat started as a blownout 280. While I was able to stretch 280 brass up to 411 I elected to go with 06 cylinder brass the longer neck and the shorter 411 300gr bullet allowed me to seat the bullet at the base of the neck and still match the canalure. This case is formed but not resized so the neck is a little larger. Measurements are .46" shoulder .438" neck this gives me .022" of shoulder. Or basically the same as a belt. The shoulder is plenty to keep me from chambering a long case. Gross capacity is 86grs of water.Which is 14% more than the 400 Whelen.

I have also chamber and ready to finish a 375 version. This is made from 280 brass. I tried it with both 380 Howell and 06 cylinder brass. Limiting to a 3.34 OAL and the longer 375 bullets I actually have about 3 grs more net capacity using 280Rem brass made by Norma. This is the case compared to a std 375-06.

This is the 340,380 and 400 compared to a 375H&H.

Pretty neato acases, I saw them at the hoto and shoot! thanks for sharing Paul
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86 grains capacity is a great!

Glad you decided to go with the longer version.

Considering the 416 taylor has 89.5 grains, the 300 win mag has 88, the 338 win mag has 85 and new RCM "wonder carts" only have 68 and 72 grains capacity this is a coup.

400 @ 2,250 might be obtainable

Wow, looks great for sure.

I think your capacity numbers are off a little Boomy.
In Quickload the 416 Taylor shows 92gns, 338 win at 86 gns and 300 win at 93.8 gns H2O
FWIW

Just for S&Gs I put the capacity and length in the the 400 PDK and 416 Taylor.
With RL-15, a 400gn bullet, 24" bbl and 60K max pressure,
The 416 Taylor showed 2350 fps
the 400 PDK spit out 2304 fps!!

Drop down to 50ksi pressure and the PDK should still do 2180fps.

Looks rather respectable to me.

If you wanted your big levergun Bommie, stuff this into a M95 Win.

For maximum capacity look at the M1917 Enfield with the stock 10 rnd magazine?

quote:

think your capacity numbers are off a little Boomy.
In Quickload the 416 Taylor shows 92gns, 338 win at 86 gns and 300 win at 93.8 gns H2O

Loadtech calls the capacities a little different still. 416 Taylor 93.6, 338 88.3, and 300 as 91.8.

Thanks for the RL 15 info with the 400. Darn Loadtech will not allow me to force it to use a specific powder. It chooses what it thinks is best. For some reason it skips RL15. Looks to me that upper limits are more limited by capacity than pressure. We will see.

I know my case will not do anything one of the larger cases will do eaiser. But it goes great with it's smaller brothers.

It would make a great heavy lever rifle round.

When I rented the neck, throater from 4-D I exchanged a couple emails with Fred Zeglin. He told me that the 400PDK except for a couple minor differences was basically their "411 Express" a 2.650"/ 06 based case. Said that when they started getting the 2.65" cylinder brass it seemed logical to use it to expand the capactiy of the 411 Hawk. From what I gathered it is the 411 Hawk with the neck and shoulder moved forward. Said he had one himself. So Z-hat would be a good source if someone was interested.

I will post the data in Months to come on both as I work up loads.

Thanks for the info...I know some brass varies... I was just quoting other sources...shows the importance of measuring the brass you have dont it

Ramrod, I think you'd be happier with Quickload. I thought the $150 price tag was too much, but have been more than happy with it since day one. I looked at load tech and to me it appeared to be more of a compilation of published load data and just interpolated or extrapolated to give an answer.
It's been awhile, but doesn't it give you an upper and lower charge and pressure? Pick something and go for 50,000 psi, then write down the charges it gives for the 45 and 55k pressures, then put in for the upper and lower pressures, it won't give you the same powder charge for the 50k that you started with.
WHY???
Also about giveing you suggested powders, if there isn't a published load with the powder you want, then they don't have anything to pull the info from.

Where as Quickload uses thermo dynamic calculations to simulate what goes on inside the case and barrel. You can look at H1000 in the 9mm case if you want to with Quickload.

Load Tech could be very handy for haveing alot of published load data in one place. For thinking outside the box, I don't think that it works very well.

If anyone wants to buy my copy of Load Tech for cheap, let me know.

quote:

Ramrod, I think you'd be happier with Quickload. I thought the $150 price tag was too much, but have been more than happy with it since day one. I looked at load tech and to me it appeared to be more of a compilation of published load data and just interpolated or extrapolated to give an answer.
It's been awhile, but doesn't it give you an upper and lower charge and pressure? Pick something and go for 50,000 psi, then write down the charges it gives for the 45 and 55k pressures, then put in for the upper and lower pressures, it won't give you the same powder charge for the 50k that you started with.

I agree with you 100%. If I had paid for Loadtech I would be very disappointed. I got it for free for giving them cases and info on the 280&340PDKs and allowing them to include them. So I can't complain to much. What I have found is comparing to info I had collected from my actual testing their data appeared close. Like comparing one manual to another. Changes in OAL and capacity seems to make sense and is repeatable. However is you alter the system max pressure like you said all bets are off. Take a cartridge with a 60,000 max then change it to 70,000 and often as not the same powder charge will now show 70,000psi.

I have pointed this out to them along with some other errors I have found. I have been told an update is coming out soon. Last time I was told that was 10/7/07. Figured I would see what that update brings if it happens.

I would not recommend that anyone buy Loadtech as it currently sits. Hands down Quickload is a far better product.

Exelent, Paul!
For some reasons, it looks like th eshoulder is smaller than a .411 Hawk, or will that improove after a fiering?
Will be fun to see what it will do compared to my .425! I have about 80 grs, but larger bullet.. How much powder can it room with a 400 grs bullet, COL at 3.34?

quote:

For some reasons, it looks like th eshoulder is smaller than a .411 Hawk

I looked at the pictures of the two and had the same question. The hawk is a .454" shoulder .436" neck and 17.5deg for a total shoulder of .454-.436=.018". As I measure my case I get .46" shoulder .438" neck and 40 deg for .46-.438=.022. I didn't think to mic the unfired neck so my neck measurement is a little large. But does give a good ideas of the chamber neck. When I plot the dimensions of the shoulder due to the 17.5 deg shoulder the distance difference measured from the base of the two shoulder points on the Hawk is .025. On mine it is .013" .So in the picture the longer slopping shoulder looks bigger. At least that is my guess as why it looks that way.

I don't have a .411 400. I have a .416 that I ran through a sizer to .410. I measure 1.3" using 4895 I get around 63-64 grs with no compression. If I use a drop tube I get around 69.

The first thing that made me wonder was when I couldn't get 296 to come up for the 44 mag.

Here is a link to a work done by a handloader, it's free. You just have to download and install it. There are a few different versions.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=12405&page=12

FWIW