Newer powders and rifles have given PO Ackley's
30-06 Ackley Imp some interesting loading results.

Nosler's data with 180 gr bullets over RL 22 powder
produces 2985 fps in a standard M 700, M-70 or 98 Mauser. That is 300 H&H magnum territory.
My custom Mauser 98 will do close to that using IMR 4350 powder under 180 gr bullets. Some Hawk or Nosler E-tip bullets have to be reduced a bit. The
Barnes MRX and TTX bullets really shine in the 30-06 Ackley due to less bearing surface bore
contact/less pressure signs.
Nosler data is usually conservative, so this breathes new life in Parker Ackley's 1944 wildcat on the 30-06 case. As usual, start at least 10 % below max loads. The higher RL-22 loads in the online Nosler data indicate compressed loading of cartridges.

I looked on Noslers website at their 30-06 AI and std 30-06 data and in the nosler manual #9. the website and #9 manual are the same. There is no 30-06 AI data in the #9 manual. For the std 06 it lists a max charge of RL22 under a 180 gr bullet as 62 grs that yeilds 2819 fps from a 24" barrel. The website also shows a max load in the 30-06 AI as 62 grs of RL22 with 180 gr bullet yielding 2985 fps. in a 24 " barrel also. Same charge in a larger capacity case delivering 165 fps MORE velocity???? I'm sorry but I cant swallow that. I think we have some misprinted data here. RL 22 is likely a good choice in the 30-06 AI or the 30 Gibbs, but I think there is a misprint in Noslers data. Anyone out there actually use RL22 in a 30-06 AI or a 30 Gibbs ?? and if so would you share a little of your data ??

I've tried RL22 in my 30-06 Ack imp. Did'nt have much success with it. Couldent match the accuracy or velocity that I got with IMR 4350.

It's hard to beat IMR 4350.

Ive found a lot of places wherein RL-22 is great powder and delivers great accuracy and the highest velocity at best pressure..Its a great powder. I love RL-powders...RL 22 is in a since 4831 that measures out of a powder measures to the grain. Same for RL-19 as to 4350 for all practical purposes and on and on..All the old IMR and H powders are good powders but grain cutting ruins the accuracy of the powder measure toss by comparison and its a pain in the butt...

Looking through several loading manuals and it is surprising how many loads list IMR 4350, IMR 4831, 7828 and H4831 in the most accurate load. The companies who published the loading manuals didnt seem to have problems with coarse grained powders ruining accuracy. If someone has issues with their powder measure there are other options. For near max loads I prefer to weigh every load. I use the Lee powder scoops more often than I use my powder measure. There is a scoop that comes very close to just about every charge you may want. A little trickle of powder on top of a scoop and the scale balances. Not saying finer powders or ball powders arent convienient but there is nothing wrong with some of the older coarse powders

Is there any 30 Gibbs owners out there that have used RL22 or any other of the newer powders in their 30 Gibbs ? Did you see any significant velocity gains ?

Reading the comments and I guess I have been doing this wrong since I started. I have always weighed every single charge on my beam scale regardless if I threw it out of my Lee scoop or my powder measure. How can you say that you have a particular load determined to the tenth of a grain without weighing it? My powder measure varies as much as a quarter grain per toss.

SWM I would say you are doing it right. I weigh every charge as well. Whether you prefer to use a powder measure or a set of Lee scoops to get you close dump that on the powder scale pan and use a trickler or a little tap of the powder scoop to balance the scale and you know for sure your loads are consistant

RL-22 and some other powders measure so accurately the powder measure there is no need to weigh and trickle, and fill a case enough to prevent pressure problems...If you have the technique to work the measure properly in which case its as accurate as any other technique out there,,the same with most ball powders, H414, CFE-223, LV REV and RL-22,19,17,16, practice and consistency with a good measure is the trick.

Doubtful? lets gamble I can hit the scale bar every toss in 100 tosses.

Ray-
On rifles with bottle-neck cases, I weigh every charge and it works. The straight-sided cases like 45-70 and 45-90 are more forgiving. Even the 45-70 with 2400 powder bears watching, BUT you will know if paying attention. No distractions.
I have found H-450, now discontinued, is a fine 270 powder. Even H-870 will work on 160 gr Nosler bullets.
The 30-06 Ackley will produce 300 H&H velocities in 180-225 bullet loadings. The 30 Gibbs is so close to the Ackley version that its half a mosquito wing difference between the two. The Mauser custom I have will pound anything through the shoulders with Swift or Nosler 180 gr bullets.

The 1981 Jan-feb issue of HANDLOADER magazine shows chronographed load data for the 30-06 Ackley.
IMR 4350, IMR 4831, and H-205 produced velocities in the high 2900s but with the IMR powders producing the best accuracy of all powders. Primary bullet used was the 180 gr Nosler partition.
Loads were 60-62 grs, respectively. H-205 has been discontinued, as has MRP. Both fine powders that Hodgdon should have continued.
I have used RL-19 and RL-22 in the 338-06 cartridge in a 1940s pre-64 Model 70 Winchester. Worked well.

The '06 AI is an interesting cartridge. Bro had one for years and shot a pile of stuff with it. Accuracy went south so I horse traded and ended up with the rifle and it's now a 280 AI and boy its a shooter with a 24" Lilja barrel.

The only AI that didn't shoot well for me was a 257R AI and I'm sure it was just a poor barrel and not the cartridge.

Zeke

I had a 30/06AI once I tried about every powder that was compatible, even with what i considered max loads the velocities were just slightly above 30/06 loads data.
We didnt have any RL22 back then. My best loads were with H4831 and IMR4350.
Accuracy was around 1.5" groups. That rifle now is a 6.5 PRC.

If I was going to change this Mauser custom slightly, it would be to a 338-06 Ack Improved, BUT I already have an early M-70 in 338-06.

This 06 AI is accurate and appears not to have been shot much. Am making up for that with heavy bullets
like the Barnes original 225-Hornady RN 220s and Swift-Nosler 180-200s. Luckily this rifle digests
most any loads with slow IMR or Hodgdon powders. RL 22 might give an edge, but if the slow IMR powders will do 2900-2950 with 180 gr bullets, I will stay there-with a 24 in barrel.
This rifle has a tight chamber, accounting for good velocity with the quality earlier barrel from the 1960s.

i like rl22 and 220gr rn ... mild velocity, can be used to drill wells

This is an excellent site with good folks. Saeed and you moderators do an exceptional job.

This Mauser is somewhat unusual with a Lee dot
Balvar scope and custom built M98 action. It does appear to be early 1960s vintage. Accurate. As Frank Barnes says: with really heavy bullets it can become a 318 Westley Richards. A Nosler 220 gr RN
could drill wells and come up for air with a side brain shot on elephant. As Phil Shoemaker has stated, the 30-06 is quite a cartridge... T. Whelen agreed. Especially with modern powders and bullets. The Ack Imp version just allows a bit more powder & performance with heavy bullets. The o6 case can do most anything, properly necked to the desired cartridge.

5th SF Gp(ABN) Khe Sanh 1971 DAV-NRA-Life
Only the dead have seen the end of war-Plato

{Do not support any socialist party that hurts the country. Crime and open borders hurt all citizens of this republic. Vote like your children's lives are important.}

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
i like rl22 and 220gr rn ... mild velocity, can be used to drill wells

Dont misread my posts, the 4831s AND 4350s ARE GREAT POWDER WITH HIGHEST VELOCITY COMBINED WITH MILDEST PRESSURE. THEY CAN BE LOADED WITH A SPOON AND BE A GRAIN OR TWO OFF AND NO PROBLEM, BENCH RESTERS OF YESTERYEAR PROVED THAT..IN THE 3006 CASE AND BELOW..AND IN MAGNUM CASEs as well in some instances.

What my claim is they 'cut grs', and that's a pain IMO. and I get close to the same results with RL-22 and 19 and perhaps RL-17, H414, cfe223 etc.

I also have 30 lbs of old 4831 that gets a 100 fps more at less pressure Than RL powders.Its a trade off that suits me..I hate trickler units, too time consuming for me..

My 30-06 AI with 180 Interbonds and N160 will happily run at 3050fps out of a 24" barrel

I set 55k PSI and max 120 % compressed load to QL:

Cartridge          : .30-06 Ack Imp
Bullet             : .308, 180, Nosler AccuBond 54825
Useable Case Capaci: 60.182 grain H2O = 3.908 cm3
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.330 inch = 84.58 mm
Barrel Length      : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 55000 psi, or 379 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 120 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant Reloder-26 *C              107,7     64,2     4,16    2911    99,6    55000   10943   1,177  ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 76 *C               115,3     68,9     4,46    2885    97,5    55000   11521   1,174  ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP *C                       108,1     62,6     4,05    2869    97,7    55000   10774   1,182  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-25 *C              116,0     64,0     4,15    2861    99,2    55000   10540   1,177  ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP 2 *C                     119,3     66,2     4,29    2859    95,3    55000   10879   1,182  ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP30                        119,3     66,2     4,29    2859    95,3    55000   10879   1,182  ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 60 *T                97,6     56,8     3,68    2858   100,0    55000    9718   1,178  ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 80 *C               118,6     71,4     4,62    2853    92,3    55000   11262   1,179  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N570 *C                 119,3     69,8     4,52    2851    88,4    55000   11397   1,180  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N568 *C*T               119,1     68,9     4,47    2846    91,9    55000   11070   1,181  ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 70 *C               100,4     59,3     3,85    2841    99,4    55000   10147   1,179  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N560 *C                 109,5     62,0     4,02    2840    94,0    55000   10699   1,183  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N565 *C*T               115,4     65,8     4,26    2840    94,5    55000   10689   1,192  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-17 *T               96,7     56,3     3,65    2838   100,0    55000    9661   1,184  ! Near Maximum !
Elcho 17                            96,7     56,3     3,65    2838   100,0    55000    9661   1,184  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-23 *C *T           112,2     60,9     3,95    2837   100,0    55000    9697   1,186  ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP36 ZT *C *T               112,2     60,9     3,95    2837   100,0    55000    9697   1,186  ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP5/NP ~approximation       109,9     61,6     3,99    2833    96,3    55000   10454   1,186  ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA15 *C                    109,9     61,6     3,99    2833    96,3    55000   10454   1,186  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-22 *C              109,9     61,6     3,99    2833    96,3    55000   10454   1,186  ! Near Maximum !
Winchester WXR                     112,8     61,9     4,01    2831    96,1    55000   10454   1,187  ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP15                        112,8     61,9     4,01    2831    96,1    55000   10454   1,187  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate MAGPRO                    110,0     64,9     4,20    2830    92,1    55000   10678   1,187  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N555 *C*T               109,2     59,4     3,85    2830    99,9    55000    9862   1,207  ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S365                       104,0     57,4     3,72    2819   100,0    55000    9235   1,194  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-16 *C *T           101,4     54,8     3,55    2819    99,8    55000    9620   1,182  ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RL16 TZ *C *T               101,4     54,8     3,55    2819    99,8    55000    9620   1,182  ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 12                  111,8     66,2     4,29    2814    94,6    55000   10509   1,180  ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 517                111,9     66,3     4,30    2813    94,4    55000   10516   1,180  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 SSC                       107,5     61,2     3,97    2810    94,2    55000   10305   1,181  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828                           113,6     61,2     3,97    2810    94,2    55000   10305   1,181  ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 62                  100,4     58,4     3,78    2809    99,5    55000    9734   1,202  ! Near Maximum !

I have not shot the 06 IMP for many years but it was back in the day the equal of a 300H&H and better than the 318 WR, always has been. In my recent 318 WR I recently sold to a local friend, I loved the gun, but ballistically, on the chronograph it was nothing more than my 30-06 with every load I tested, mostly 220 and some 250s, both loaded to the gills..Its claim to fame was a heavy bullet a slow velocity and cloned the standard 30-06..

I always liked the 30-06 IMP as it could be built in a lighter rifle and give me a couple of hundred FPS, same with the 250 IMP gave me 300 fps, both with wildcat headaches..

quote:

Posts

The 30/06 AI will manage about 35-50 fps over the standard 30/06, when loaded to the same pressure, with the same powder, in the same barrel.
Ackley's drawing for the 30/06 AI included an error of about .029-.031" in the headspace measurement. The result of this is that all reamer manufacturers have been making reamers with necks which are about .031" too long. At least one reamer maker is aware of this, but I don't know if he changed his prints or not. Interestingly enough, Nosler chose to print a drawing which has the correct cartridge length but is roughly .o31" short in headspace. By the way, I say roughly only because I don't want to get off my ass and go look at the book! Regards, Bill.

If I had the AI version, I would try some staball 6.5 in it.

This 30/06 AI will do as chronographed up to 300 H&H velocities with less powder.
Each wildcat is a law unto itself as to velocities.
This is a strong Mauser custom rifle and handles pressure well. Headspace is critical.
I will go along with Ray on the slow powders in this cartridge and other 338s I have-including a 338-06, much like the old 333 OKH. Great elk and bear-moose cartridge.

If you can find brass strong enough to take the required pressure, a 30/06, AI or standard, will match factory 300 H&H performance. The pressure is still too high though, and it's not a good idea to do it. Regards, Bill

30-06 AI in new brass can handle the necessary pressure to reach 300 H&H velocities with slow powders. The standard 30-06 case will be pushed to questionable pressures reaching 300 H&H velocities.

From another perspective to achieve big game performance levels, Frank Barnes in Cartridges of the World, states that a 250 gr bullet in the 30-06 case can duplicate the performance of the .318 Westley Richards. This .330 cartridge was a favorite of many African hunters including WM Bell, John Taylor, and Bror Blixen to name a few.

I have used 225 gr original Barnes, along with 200-220 gr Nosler Partition and Hawk bullets. The added sectional density with increased velocity of these bullets in the 30-06 AI bring it into a category equal to many
African cartridges used even for dangerous game.
Again slow powders, like 4350, 4831 N-205 and even MRP really make the Ackley Imp cartridge a very efficient performer.