Has anyone here built a .30 caliber or a 7mm caliber on the .375 Ruger?

Tell us about it if you have.

not yet but looking at the 6.5.

30 would be kinda nice I think

I wonder haw an 8mm/375 Ruger would work in a rechamber job on a 98 Mauser.

Only one way to find out.

I like the idea. Sorta like an 8x68S only maybe even better.

I dunno. I would lean towards the 9.3/.375Ruger or a.....338/.375Ruger personally. but that 7mm in that Ruger cartg. would be a field ripping hard slapping round for sure!

338/375 Ruger gets my vote. I'd shoot that.

At 338 the case will start to become overbore unless you are pushing the heaviest bullets.
The 284 with rl17 is perfect capacity for the 7mm and can get 3000 fps with the heavies. I think 275 grain 338 bullets and the Ruger case are a good match.

quote:

Originally posted by Wookie316:
338/375 Ruger gets my vote. I'd shoot that.

IT HAS BEEN DONE THEY STARTED EVEN BEFORE THE RIFLES CAME OUT GUYS BOUGHT AMMO AND NECKED IT DOWN CANT REMEMBER THE NAME BUT IT WAS POSTED HERE AS A LINK. THINKING MANS 340 WBY.

Well, wouldn't these wildcats be very much alike the cartridges Chas Newton made nearly hundred years ago...

quote:

Originally posted by Lakelander:
Well, wouldn't these wildcats be very much alike the cartridges Chas Newton made nearly hundred years ago...

Heaven's no. They would be soo much better because the cartridges would have the Rooger headstamp!

quote:

Originally posted by Lakelander:
Well, wouldn't these wildcats be very much alike the cartridges Chas Newton made nearly hundred years ago...

The 35 newton rocks!
The Ruger is a tad longer
The high BC 338 bullets and the case capacity are ideal IMHO
The Ruger case is bringing new life to the Newton line.

All the Newtons rock

The Ruger is a little bit longer, and the shoulder is a bit more forward. Wonder where they looked for inspiration for their new cases...

And there once were a .33 Newton too...

But as you say, the Ruger case is bringing new life to the Newton line.

338 Campfire?

quote:

Originally posted by Lakelander:
Well, wouldn't these wildcats be very much alike the cartridges Chas Newton made nearly hundred years ago...

no .. one can't make ruger cases from newton brass, but CAN make DANGEROUSLY THIN (do not do this) newton cases if you turned down ruger cases on a lathe .. they would RUPTURE on first firing, as the newtons are FAR smaller caseheads

one couldn't beat a ruger case into a newton chamber with a 3# sledge, no more than you could beat a newton case into an HH chamber...
.532 casehead - ruger
.522 casehead- newton
.512 (under the belt) - hh

these forums are, indead, amusing to read.

338 ruger would be less case capacity, just a hair, than a 340 weatherby, which makes it EXCELLENT

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
At 338 the case will start to become overbore unless you are pushing the heaviest bullets.
The 284 with rl17 is perfect capacity for the 7mm and can get 3000 fps with the heavies. I think 275 grain 338 bullets and the Ruger case are a good match.

HUH?
boomy, you can't be oerbore on a larger caliber but perfect for a smaller. the 280 remington is just AT perfect relationship to bore, and the 7remmag is overbore.

quote:

boomy, you can't be oerbore on a larger caliber but perfect for a smaller. the 280 remington is just AT perfect relationship to bore, and the 7remmag is overbore

I would disagree just a touch and say that in a factory rd the 280 is close to perfect. Now that Nosler is offering 280AI ammo it is closer. Back when I was designing my first wildcat the 280PDK I plotted up all the 7mm data I could find. Comparing case capacity to velocity. I got a plot with two lines. The steeper one of course was the smaller cases. A second one was much flatter and was the magnum cases. Actually when I later added 7STW data it almost started to turn down. Any way I took the intersection of that point as being the largest case capacity that still gave an efficency on par with the smaller cases. That point was 75grs of water. Just happens to be the capacity of a 7x61 S&H. So I designed my case to get as close to 75 as I could.

Since mine is a wildcat and the 7x61 might as well be at least here in the states the 280 is the largest capcity factory 7mm round on my efficent line.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

no .. one can't make ruger cases from newton brass, but CAN make DANGEROUSLY THIN (do not do this) newton cases if you turned down ruger cases on a lathe .. they would RUPTURE on first firing, as the newtons are FAR smaller caseheads

one couldn't beat a ruger case into a newton chamber with a 3# sledge, no more than you could beat a newton case into an HH chamber...

I didn't say they were the same, did I? I said they were very much alike. And besides, there is a .416 Newton out there using Ruger brass. And this was made by using a .30 Newton reamer to make the body size of the .416 Newton, then the neck reamed for a .416...And the Ruger cases doesn't need a sledgehammer to fit the Newton chamber nor do they rupture when fired....

http://www.6mmbr.com/7mm284.html#284win
With todays powders it seems the ol' 284 is the bees knees as far as case to bore with the 7mm

I have a couple Newton cases... I will measure them as soon as i find them.

quote:

Originally posted by Lakelander:
I didn't say they were the same, did I? I said they were very much alike. And besides, there is a .416 Newton out there using Ruger brass. And this was made by using a .30 Newton reamer to make the body size of the .416 Newton, then the neck reamed for a .416...And the Ruger cases doesn't need a sledgehammer to fit the Newton chamber nor do they rupture when fired....

Not arguing that it was done, as I don't have FACTS on the matter. one can assume, however, that the original reamer is therefore flawed.
newton casehead is .522
Ruger is .532
if one asssuming +.003 for clearence on the chamber reamer of the newton, making it .525, and -.002 on the ruger for clearence, making it .0530, the ruger case would not fit into the newton chamber... without a sledgehammer

reducing .006 (.005 means zero fit, and it WON'T go in) is HARD.

even

quote:

With todays powders it seems the ol' 284 is the bees knees as far as case to bore with the 7mm

Since the 284 is a 280 for a short magazine I can't argue too much. When writers start claiming a 7mag velocity and higher from a std 284 with a 180 then 3100 from a 3.5gr improvement resulting is a 1to1 % velocity gain to capacity gain I take it with a grain of salt.

and, since the 280 and 284 AND 7x64 are within 5% of case capacity, there's not much to lead one to the other, is there?

Ruger *** Newton *** sledge hammer** .404 *** .425WR*** UM *** over bore *** tampons, Ahh, Ahh OK.
Did you get the answer to your question VD?
Got one 5" large mouth all week. roger

quote:

and, since the 280 and 284 AND 7x64 are within 5% of case capacity, there's not much to lead one to the other, is there?

Now Jeffe you know darn well it would be boring as he!! around here if we couldn't nitpick just a little.

quote:

I have a couple Newton cases... I will measure them as soon as i find them.

I do also have some Newton cases, among them some .35 Newton Western Cartridge. And they have a .528 casehead...

Paul
'tis true .. the 284, 280, and 7x64 are three paths to the same result.. and your 280 as well as the 280 AI make that a little bit sweeter

here's one index of overbore, that is as repeatable as possible, though "meaningful" i can not say ... though i agree with its direction

http://accurateshooter.wordpre...-working-definition/

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Not arguing that it was done, as I don't have FACTS on the matter. one can assume, however, that the original reamer is therefore flawed.
newton casehead is .522
Ruger is .532

Jeffe can you provide your source for the Newton case head specification being .522" please?

yep .. case head, gents, NOT RIM
30 newton http://ammoguide.com/cgi-bin/a...pgOMRQlYNO&catid=148
35 http://ammoguide.com/cgi-bin/a...pgOMRQlYNO&catid=149
375 ruger http://ammoguide.com/cgi-bin/a...BqsCRalGZT&catid=525

A great source for correct information regarding the Newton Cartridges is the Bruce Jennings book.

He had reamers that measured .532 at the casehead.

He measured both Rem-UMC and NA Co. cases to have a .526-.527 casehead.

quote:

Originally posted by Lakelander:
A great source for correct information regarding the Newton Cartridges is the Bruce Jennings book.

He had reamers that measured .532 at the casehead.

He measured both Rem-UMC and NA Co. cases to have a .526-.527 casehead.

GREAT... now we are getting somewhere for a facts based discussion

a REAMER is NOT a casehead, it is case+clearence .. this is important to KNOW and to notice.

spec cases are .525 RIM, ahh, but rim is NOT casehead... in the 284, the rim is LESS than the casehead, called rebated.. on the newton the rim is larger, but just, than the casehead, and is called semi rimmless.

Be that as it may, one could turn the rim down to nearly any arbirarty diameter, and it would NOT impact the reamer, as that part of the case is NEVER inside the chamber

we are getting there..

reamers are generally built a base diameter, that TAPERS ..

and a portion of the reamer, not designed to go into the chamber, that measures something other than casehead diameter.. and EVERY rimmed case do this, .. well, it isn't germain to this discussion ...

so, should a reamer, with clearence, measure larger than casehead of the case?

EVERY one does .. each and every reamer out there measures larger than case diameter, they have to, so you can get the case INTO the hole

.526 RIM diameter... .525 .. now there's a measaurement of the rim ... and the ruger's rim is .532

BUT

the newton's CASEHEAD is .522, and the ruger's is .532

they don't fit..


"oh, .010 doesn't matter" .. sure it does, that's LESS than the difference between a .358 to a .366 to a .375 bullet ...

or the same as a .308 to a .318 (orginal 8mm mauser)

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
the newton's CASEHEAD is .522, and the ruger's is .532

they don't fit..

"oh, .010 doesn't matter" .. sure it does, that's LESS than the difference between a .358 to a .366 to a .375 bullet ...

or the same as a .308 to a .318 (orginal 8mm mauser)

Wow Jeffe there’s no other way to say it other than that statement is just flat wrong!

Guess this is going to be a long one. I apologize to all for its length and just ask that you read it with an open mind without preconceived notions.

Jeffe you use a production cartridge minimum case head measurement for the Newton and a SAAMI cartridge design specification for the Ruger. How about an apples to apples comparison here!

The SAAMI organization did not exist when Chas. Newton designed the line of Adolph Express cartridges and his subsequent line Newton cartridges else we wouldn’t be having these forum arguments over his design specifications.

I note in your earlier response to my question that your source for the Newton case head specification being .522” is AmmoGuide Interactive. I am a member of AmmoGuide Interactive so I’m fully aware that they’ve a comprehensive mission underway to update all cartridge submissions with the correct SAAMI relating specifications.

Mr. Jack Monteith is the actual contributor for both the .30 Newton and the .35 Newton cartridge specifications for AmmoGuide Interactive. I am not personally acquainted with Mr. Monteith but I do understand that he is quite the gentleman and has a fairly comprehensive collection of Newton rifles and paraphernalia.

I believe I’ve read that Mr. Monteith utilized measurements of a few commercial production .30 Newton and .35 Newton cartridges, all of Western Cartridge Company manufacture if memory serves me correctly, as the basis for his dimensional submissions to AmmoGuide Interactive. Mr. Monteith did not utilize chamber measurements or Chas. Newton Company cartridge design drawings for his submissions. I also find nothing in Mr. Monteith contributions stating that the Chas. Newton design specification is .522” for the .30 Newton or any of its derivative cartridges. So I guess the inference to be drawn is that since the AmmoGuide Interactive cartridge drawing notes .522” at the case head that this dimension is fact.

So with this scenario we have Mr. Monteith with his .30 Newton and .35 Newton cartridges, I believe of Western Cartridge Company manufacture, which measure .522” at the case heads.

I personally possess Western Cartridge Company production .30 Newton and .35 Newton loaded cartridges that have a manufacturing measurement variance between .524” and .526” at the case head. I’ve also noted this same variance spread within a single box of .35 Newton Western Cartridge Company manufactured cartridges.

AR member “Lakelander” states that he personally possesses at least one piece of Western Cartridge Company manufactured .35 Newton brass that measures .528” at the case head.

I am the recipient of email correspondence from AR member “white bison” within which he states that he possesses at least one original Newton’ loaded .30 Newton cartridge, with the N.A. Co. bunt stamp and loaded with the Newton protected point bullet, that measures .528” at the case head.

Ok, so we have production cartridge cases from two principal Newton cartridge manufacturers, Newton Arms itself and the Western Cartridge Company, that have case head measurements tolerances ranging from .528” at the high side to .522” at the low side, the known maximum/minimum production tolerance at the case head.

This commercial cartridge case production variance of .006” at the case head in itself refutes the statement that .522” is the Newton cartridge case head specification.

As you agree that Bruce Jennings’ book is a wealth of “Newton” knowledge then you’ve perhaps read Larry Wales books which followed in the footpaths of Jennings by updating some newer identified information.

Larry Wales latest book, “The Newton Rifle” has Newton Arms Co, Inc. draftsman’ drawings of the .256 Newton, the .30 Newton, and the .35 Newton cartridge cases, prepared for use by Western Cartridge Company for cartridge production. The latter two being of interest with draftsman date notations of 10/6/16 and 1/25/17 respectively specify a .528” rim and case head diameters. You’d also note the relating Western Cartridge Company’s full cartridge drawings also noting the .528” rim and case head diameters; additionally the Western’ cartridge drawing notes the .200” measurement as being .5285” in diameter.

Now we have commercial production Newton ammunition containing N.A. Co. and Western bunts with .528” case head diameters so, in conjunction with the above noted Newton Arms Co. Inc. draftsman cartridge drawings, one could perhaps factually state that .528” is the correct Newton design specification for the cartridge case head.

At least we all should be able agree that the known allowable manufacturing variance for the .30 Newton and derivative cartridges is .528” at the maximum and .522” at the minimum for the case head. If this can’t at least be agreed upon this statement then all further discussion efforts are at loggerheads and therefore fruitless.

Ok so how about the .375 Ruger? While the Hornady’ SAAMI design specification for the .375 Ruger and .416 Ruger is .532” at the rim and .200” measurements diameters that is not the relating cartridge production specification. Here’s an email excerpt from by Mitch Mittelstaedt of Hornady Mfg. Co. regarding the .375 Ruger:
“SAAMI maximum specification for the rim diameter is .532. Also, the maximum main body diameter at .200 from the head is .532.

For manufacturing specs, the body diameter at .200 is about .529 on an unfired case. The rim diameter is usually .526-.530.”

Now I just walked out to the safe and measured 10 cartridges each from new boxes of .375 Ruger and 416 Ruger cartridges. Here are the case head measurement results:
• Hornady’ 300 gr. DGX .375 Ruger: 8 @ .529” and 2 @ .528” diameter.
• Hornady’ 400 gr. DGS .416 Ruger: 5 @ .528” and 5 @ .527” diameter.
If that’s insufficient I also have 100 Hornady’ .375 Ruger unprimed cases that also vary between .5285” at the high side and .527” at the low side for case head diameters.

So…in fact we are not discussing a .010” variance between the Newton cartridge and the Ruger cartridge at the case head as in the quotation.

We are actually discussing a cartridge production variance of the .375/.416 Ruger cases with some being a maximum of +.001” larger than the .30/.35 Newton case head maximum production tolerance with many, if not most of the production Ruger brass, falling within the identified Newton cartridge production case head tolerance variation.

So, in discussing an apples to apples situation, not apples to oranges, or apples to tangerines then yes the .375/.416 Ruger brass can be safely utilized to form .30 Newton and derivative cases.

That said, if however you are an unfortunate soul who utilized the aforementioned-presumed .522 Newton case head standard as the basis for the manufacture of a chambering reamer and then used that reamer for your rifle…then you are out of luck regarding the use of the Ruger brass unless you can beg or borrow to use of, or purchase a new chambering reamer, a Newton chambering reamer that has been verified against Newton’s published chamber specifications.

(Note: I edited to correct some typos...again)

Ok, I’m done. Fire away.

Jim
I'll give a couple reamer makers a call tomorrow. I firmly believe persons are confusing rim diameter with casehead, which aren't interchangable locations, as well as trying to match min and max cases.

look, VERY few rounds have the same casehead as rim .. not even the 30-06 is .473 and .473;.. but, the ruger is, and i firmly don't believe the newton to have the same.


try to stretch the newton rim diameter, of .525 ,to its case head of .522, while ignoring that the ruger is .532 and .532 is just plain wishful thinking.

but, when a reamer maker proves me wrong, i'll say it, rather quickly.

i desire the same from the contention side, though i don't expect it

O.K.
Lots of actual cartridge brass is .004" smaller than Max brass spec.
and lots of cartridges will have the rim another .001" smaller than that
even if the rim and case head spec is supposed to be the same.
Norma and Lapua brass for .416 Rigby and .338 Lapua fall in that range.
I have measured a lot of that.

It seems that the Max spec for .375 Ruger head and rim is .532".
If the as-produced measure is .529" case head, that is tight indeed, excellent. .528" is fine and dandy when the max spec is .532".

My take is that the max spec. for the Newton cases is .528" for head and rim.
If they were made as big as .528", then the maker was getting sloppy and risking tight chambering of new brass ...
but the usual sporting rifle chamber reamer will have a plus tolerance at the base of about .002" diameter, and about plus .004" at the neck for bullet release and springback.

The Newton and Ruger are very close.
Not the same, but loose Ruger brass equals tight Newton brass in the tolerance overlap at head and rim.

Ruger wildcats smaller than .395?
Not interested.
.458?

according to a well known reamer maker.
"Jeff, you are "right" but practically wrong"

I admit it guys, i am wrong!

the newton spec is LARGEST of .528
the ruger spec is LARGEST of .532

a reamer cut for the largest spec newton WOULD work with small ruger cases, and if you selected your ruger brass, you COULD use the smallest spec ruger cases, in that large spec newton chamber.

I am wrong on the practical aspect of this.

Jeffe…Well said. If we all spoke (in this case type) with the clarity of the well known reamer maker the posts on this forum would be far shorter with much less disagreement; they’d perhaps be less interesting also.

I'm with Wildcat Junkie: the 8mm would be an excellent Mauser rechamber if rails and magazine could be worked out easily.
The case is just too damn big for anything under 30 (and even that) unless you just want that sort of thing. People like to do something different though. I'm sure there'll be a 257 Ruger before it's said and done.

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:
That said, if however you are an unfortunate sole ......

(Note: I edited to correct some typos.)

Ok, I’m done. Fire away.

You missed one Jim, it's "soul", not "sole". But, that was a very informative post.

quote:

Originally posted by Fjold:

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:
That said, if however you are an unfortunate sole ......

(Note: I edited to correct some typos.)

Ok, I’m done. Fire away.

You missed one Jim, it's "soul", not "sole". But, that was a very informative post.

Frank you caught me with that one. Guess I'll go back and correct another typo.

Vapodog

How about the Ruger case necked down to .35 caliber. Competition to the .358 Norma Mag.

22WRF
Too close to the 35 Newton IMHO.
338-375 Ruger is the sweet spot of the medium bores not been done on a comercial level. 338 Win Mag at lower preasure and push the 338 heavies well.

Boom Stick

So what are you thinking. 338-375 Ruger 250 grain nos partition at 3000 fps?