With the good possibility that I am moving to CO, I now have a need for something larger then my 7mm-08. I want something that will shoot a 200gr bullet 3000ft/sec at the muzzle. That should still carry about 2300ft/sec out to 400yds. Plenty potent enough for elk at those ranges. I Why isnt there a non belted magnum that is a tad more then the 300 win mag that will do that? I know their is the 300 Dakota and the Lazzeroni mag but those will require a larger bolt face. I was thinking a 300 RUM shortening to 2.6 inch while adding a little length in the neck for longer bullets should do the trick. Should have about 95gr case capacity.
I guess my question is...is there a wildcat that uses affordable brass that remotely matches what I thinking?

I would think that starting with the 375 Ruger and necking it down to .308 would get you near your goals. It just seems to me that a 30-375 Ruger would be the simplest way to go about making a beltless 300 Mag.

quote:

Originally posted by thecanadian:
Why isnt there a non belted magnum that is a tad more then the 300 win mag that will do that?

Wait, why did you dismiss the .300 RUM? It shoots a 200 grainer at 3020 fps, plus it comes in two other power levels, one approximating the .300WM and .300WSM and the other approximating the .30/06. Seems perfect.

quote:

Originally posted by postoak:

Wait, why did you dismiss the .300 RUM? It shoots a 200 grainer at 3020 fps, plus it comes in two other power levels, one approximating the .300WM and .300WSM and the other approximating the .30/06. Seems perfect.

I dont like it because it is waayyy overbore. I want to get a little bit more barrel life then 750 rounds. Even if I reduce the loads I will be burning enough powder to burn a barrel in short order. A 300Rum min loads will use the same amount of powder as a max load of the 300 Dakota class cartrige. Looking at 180gr bullets and H4831, you get around 75gr ish from a 300 Dakota as a max vs. 73gr in the 300RUM as a starting load.

quote:

Originally posted by HondoLane:
I would think that starting with the 375 Ruger and necking it down to .308 would get you near your goals. It just seems to me that a 30-375 Ruger would be the simplest way to go about making a beltless 300 Mag.

Would that require neck turning?

300 BooBoo based on the 8x68s. In fact you should do fine with an 8x68 with a 200gr North Fork, or other good quality properly constructed 200gr or heavier bullet. The Ruger case as suggested is also an alternative.

The 300 Win Mag may not quite get you what you want but you can get a lot done with the old Win Mag and the belt I agree is not ideal but never caused me any problems.

300Blaser mag

You sure don't need a 200gr bullet at 3000 for Elk.

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:
You sure don't need a 200gr bullet at 3000 for Elk.

Need has nothing to do with it. I could just get a 300 win mag, 1:10 twist barrel and be fine. However, variety is the spice of life! I just want something a little different and besides its another excuse to tell the wife that I need a new gun

Wsm "is" a belt less 300 win. Don't like the rum being over bore? Which includes the hh win Norma and weatherby, btw. Shoot rel25 and less than 30 rounds an hour. Overbore in a rum is more of the nut on the trigger. 750 rounds? Sure. If you shot that in a DAY.

but the wsm answers your exact replacement question. The rum makes your power levels

Or turn the belt off 300win and call it a 7.62x64. There no pesky rim and headspace on shoulder. Tada. Same round sans belt

Jeff,

I think that I should have been more clear in my OP. My ultimate goal is to achieve 300 Dakota performance with brass that is cheaper and easier to get. Additionally, I will be shooting heavier bullets (200gr and above). The 300 WSM was not designed to shoot longer bullets.
While the cartridge will be 'overbore' it is not so much that it will burn out a barrel in short order. I just thought that someone had already made a 'Goldilocks' cartridge on the 300RUM case, somewhere between 300WSM and 300RUM in length, it appears this has not been done. Hence, I will probably go with the 30-375 Ruger since the AccRel line of cartridges does not go down to 30 cal.

I understand wanting something just because.

How about the 7.62 PRO. Around 104grs of capacity. Uses 338 Norma Mag brass.
http://ammoguide.com/cgi-bin/a...BrvNBuunkC&catid=861

A necked down Ruger still seems the easiest.

quote:

Originally posted by AFRICAN LEADWOOD:
300 BooBoo based on the 8x68s...

That's a pretty cool idea, just with a slight twist, would be the obsolete 30 Newton. Can also be formed from 8x68S.
4d 30 Newton

Why not revive the .300 Canadian?

300 blaser is 860m/s with a 200gr bullet (a long wsm).

.300 Dakota or .30 Newton?

quote:

Originally posted by Nordic2:
300 blaser is 860m/s with a 200gr bullet (a long wsm).

Cant get brass in the US for that. Otherwise it is a great design.

quote:

Originally posted by thecanadian:

quote:

Originally posted by postoak:

Wait, why did you dismiss the .300 RUM? It shoots a 200 grainer at 3020 fps, plus it comes in two other power levels, one approximating the .300WM and .300WSM and the other approximating the .30/06. Seems perfect.

I dont like it because it is waayyy overbore. I want to get a little bit more barrel life then 750 rounds. Even if I reduce the loads I will be burning enough powder to burn a barrel in short order. A 300Rum min loads will use the same amount of powder as a max load of the 300 Dakota class cartrige. Looking at 180gr bullets and H4831, you get around 75gr ish from a 300 Dakota as a max vs. 73gr in the 300RUM as a starting load.

Can always down load the Ultra Mag. 100 FPS., less and extend your barrel life by 57 rounds . roger

The .300 Norma Magnum will also get you what you want if the Boo Boo does not appeal to you. This is the .300 and not the .308 Norma Magnum. I think this cartridge was only standardised last year and is based on the .338 Norma Magnum.

Read Don Heath's post here: Norma cartridges

Norma makes brass and ammo for the 300 Blaser magnum.

I do not think this cartridge will be around for any length of time.

rum .. rel25... starting loads?

Were I worried about barrel life in the 300 RUM, I think I would buy an 8# jug of WC 860 from Jeff Bartlett and start playing with the projectile of choice using AA 8700 load data. I have gotten excellent results burning WC 860 in both mine and my son's 7 Remington Magnums, and that powder is so cheap it isn't funny.

quote:

Originally posted by Chiefen:
Norma makes brass and ammo for the 300 Blaser magnum.

I do not think this cartridge will be around for any length of time.

My thoughts as well.

The 300 Win will do the 200gr/3000fps, but you don't want the belt, so why not use the 338 RUM case, push the shoulder back a tad, that will give you the slightly longer neck and reduce the powder capacity. I would think that 3000/200gr would be a nice cruiser load.

quote:

Originally posted by thecanadian:
With the good possibility that I am moving to CO, I now have a need for something larger then my 7mm-08. I want something that will shoot a 200gr bullet 3000ft/sec at the muzzle. That should still carry about 2300ft/sec out to 400yds. Plenty potent enough for elk at those ranges. I Why isnt there a non belted magnum that is a tad more then the 300 win mag that will do that? I know their is the 300 Dakota and the Lazzeroni mag but those will require a larger bolt face. I was thinking a 300 RUM shortening to 2.6 inch while adding a little length in the neck for longer bullets should do the trick. Should have about 95gr case capacity.
I guess my question is...is there a wildcat that uses affordable brass that remotely matches what I thinking?

Seems to me that if a 300 Win Mag nor a 300 RUM won't do. then wildcating a 300 won't do either!

How about steping up to a 0.338"

What about a 300 Lapua?
Too overbore?

30 Newton
Use 375 Ruger Brass
Classy.
30-9,3x64
Use 9,3x64 brass
Hard to get brass though.

Dadgummt boomie. You can make newton cases by large turning ruger cases. Can't be done the other way. Please stop equating the two.

I have some Western 35 Newton Cases that measure .2985 at the case head.
I think the Newton was screwed up by people and manufacturers using 8x68 cases but that is just my theory.
I know Wikipedia and countless references to being smaller but how does that explain the cases that are larger? I know there are a few old pissing matches about this but I can send you a case if you like.

I thought the 8x68 case was just an expediency for Newton chambers? Sort of like when guys had to use 284Win as a substitute for the 7.5x55Swiss.

Is the "true" newton slightly larger? Opening the rim just enough for the 8x68 could leave you unable to use the real thing from Captech/Jamison or others.
Newton?

CIP Drawings

.332 v ~.3 ,,,
not the same, yeah?

Option C:

take the 404J and neck it down to 30 caliber with no other changes. The RUM is an improved 404, so leaving the taper and body shape intact should meet your goal.

How about necking down the shorter 300 ultra mag case to 30 cal?

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
.332 v ~.3 ,,,
not the same, yeah?

Jeff we've had this discussion a couple of times already.

The 375 Ruger brass run into a 'true factory specification' 30 Newton or 35 Newton die will be perfect for a 'true factory' 30 Newton or 35 Newton chambered rifle or a rifle chambered using a correct dimensioned finish reamer.

If the rifle was chambered using a reamer cut using the late production severely undersized Western brass then there will be an issue. These chambers require use of up sized 8x68 brass.

Why do I know this - 'cause I've made friends with individuals who own factory production Newton rifles chambered for the 30 Newton and 35 Newton cartridge and 375 Ruger brass is what they use. Prior to the 375 Ruger brass being released they used belted magnum brass; two, sometimes three full pressure loads would straighten the case out eliminating the belt, leaving only a very thin line marking where the belt edge was.

Oh yes, the reason the belted magnum brass was used is that the 8x68 body is very undersized and the rim is severely undersized. Undersized case body wise in the same manner as those individuals who insist upon using up sized 30-06 brass in their 9.3x62 Mauser chambered rifles. Case life will suck...

30-06 Ackley; a little less power than the 300 Win Mag, brass everywhere.

quote:

I want something that will shoot a 200gr bullet 3000ft/sec at the muzzle. That should still carry about 2300ft/sec out to 400yds. Plenty potent enough for elk at those ranges.

I always find it interesting that people from states like Wisconsin feel the need to shoot 400 yards at elk in Colorado. Most of the elk I've seen shot were with 270 Win, 308 Win, 30-06, 7mm Mag, and 300 Win, and most at 200 yards or less.

400 yards is a long, long, long shot in the mountains at the start of winter time. Wind and altitude are not your friends up here.

Perhaps a 300 Lapua and when the barrel is shot out go with a 338 Lapua.
Perhaps the extra flat shooting and range will add confidence to the shot if recoil is not an issue.

quote:

Originally posted by MickinColo:

quote:

I want something that will shoot a 200gr bullet 3000ft/sec at the muzzle. That should still carry about 2300ft/sec out to 400yds. Plenty potent enough for elk at those ranges.

I always find it interesting that people from states like Wisconsin feel the need to shoot 400 yards at elk in Colorado. Most of the elk I've seen shot were with 270 Win, 308 Win, 30-06, 7mm Mag, and 300 Win, and most at 200 yards or less.

400 yards is a long, long, long shot in the mountains at the start of winter time. Wind and altitude are not your friends up here.

Last time I went elk hunting there, 400 is the closest I came to a shootable elk. So yes, I want something with a little punch that will get the job done at that distance. Winter in the mountains varies quite a bit, sometimes wind and elevation are the least of your problems.This is from someone who has stood on top of 28 Colorado 14ers during winter.

Option B: the 338 RUM is 2.65" long, 2/10ths of an inch shorter than the 300/375. That should about meet your goals. Very plentiful supply of brass available.

Rich