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9.5x64 alias 375-284 Long
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Splitting off from MickinColo's discussion that went from macro to micro. Please allow me to ping-pong around a bit.

It's been asked, what if there was a long version of the 284W?

There was a proposal for a 375 version and a rebated rim to avoid opening up the bolt face from .473.

Keep in mind, no such donor brass exists. The closest to the requested specs is the 9.3x64.

To fulfill these parameters something would have to change, similar to the years Rigby brass wasn't available and guys had to turn the belt off Weatherby brass. In looking at the CIP specs, two turning tools would be needed, a profiler and a groove tool; as a straight swipe of the donor 9.3x64 wouldn't produce a 30-06 compatible extractor groove. But, brass is soft enough that the groove tool could probably make the profile pass, too. So a tool change probably wouldn't be needed.

Frankly, I don't see the value in this operation, and don't understand the aversion to opening up the donor rifle's bolt face. This would only need to be done once, and be permanent. Modifying the brass would be a "seasonal" operation as you rotated the old out.

.473 to .496

Taking into account Great War bring-backs, this is almost a century old process in Mausers. For other donors, it would be comparable to opening up .223 bolts to PPC and still less, again, a well established process. It's not like the paper thin face of the CZ 505 Gibbs.

Well, regardless how you get there, I did a little mock up simulation. The dimensions are only close approximations, as I don't have access to cad software on the weekends, the angles and such probably don't trig out right, using modern body taper and neck angle.

LFAD 9.5x64

Case capacity is conservatively estimated at ~81 grains.

Using the Hornady .270gr bullet, it looks like it struggles to get past ~2400fps and probably wouldn't crack 2500fps. This bullet in the 375Ruger runs ~2700fps.

For the 375 Whelen, this pill runs in the mid 2300fps range. So it does have a slight edge over the more conventional 375 that matches the .473 bolt face, but barely.

And this is the competition, lurking in the wings. In this particular instance, it just looks too good to beat.
Howa 375

So, while I can appreciate weirdness for weirdness' sake, IMHO it wouldn't be a worthwhile endeavor beyond the individual distinction of having something different from everybody else.

Funny, I don't particularly like the 375Ruger, but you gotta give it up to a pretty great design.
 
Posts: 188 | Location: Austin, TX | Registered: 12 July 2008Reply With Quote
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Check with Qual-Cart. I remember them having some long 284 brass a couple years ago.


577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375

*we band of 45-70ers* (Founder)
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Posts: 27615 | Location: Where tech companies are trying to control you and brainwash you. | Registered: 29 April 2005Reply With Quote
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Reduction of 376 Steyr rim and loading long to 3.34" will get you to the same place and then some. You could blow out a bit of taper as well for a gain splitting the difference between the 375HH/Ruger and the 376 Steyr in a short action. Much easier and if you left some slop for the extra rim o the 376 you could shoot factory ammo. Just a though or two.


577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375

*we band of 45-70ers* (Founder)
Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder)
 
Posts: 27615 | Location: Where tech companies are trying to control you and brainwash you. | Registered: 29 April 2005Reply With Quote
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Using the KISS principle I got into a situation wherein a full rib 9x57 barrel wouldn't clean up to a 9.3x62 in a rebore, so I ended up with a wildcat 9.5x62, and to my surprise I am getting some awesome velocities out of it, and better than the .375 Scoville by a good deal, at least the listed loads in the new Barnes book..
My 9.5x62 is getting the same balistics as the .375 Flanged, that is 2377 to 2426 FPS with the 300 gr. Horn RN, and 2450 to 2510 FPS plus a bit more with some loads using the 270 gr. bullets and right at 2600 with 250 gr. bullets, and I am still working at it, as no loading data is available, so a degree of cross coorelation and every method I know of such as eye balling, reloading a single case, using the mics and chronograph, checking primer pocket expansion and case expansion. It's a bitch flying by the seat of your pants. Cross coorelation with near calibers has also been on the agenda, but I'm getting their and some loads that seem warm are getting up to 12 loadings so far, not sticky bolts, overly expanded primers or cases, most cases show no expansion and the warmest loads are .002..

I need to open the magazine a bit more and the throat a bit perhaps? so I can use the Woodleigh PP and other spitzer bullets to their full capacity. As it is the use of RN bullets has been necessary, not that its a problem because its a medium range caliber and not intended for cross canyon shooting, but I'll probably open it up sooner or later and I like the fact that it holds 4 down and 5 would be a snap, and I like that..Now if I don't get bored and sell it before I get it where I want it..

Its a neat caliber and I'm impressed so far. I I cannot or will not use 30-06 brass as you do get a bulge in the base, contrary some reports, and thats not good IMO, but if you insist it will work, but don't full length resize as it will overwork your brass and I consider it a dangerous practice anyway. Today 9.3x62 brass is cheap, especially from Graff..I prefer Lapua, RWS, and PVI is great.


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 42226 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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IIRC Now that you mention it, I think the long version was the 284 Monty, in joking reference to the movie. I think this was an old thread here or on some other forum.

284 Monty

Ouch $$$

RWS

Donor unit costs $1.85 vs $4.30

IMHO the 375 / 9.5 version is a no-go.

But I do think there's something to all this. Jumping up a bit, the 400 / 10.5 version may have something to it. And then down a bit the 338 / 8.5 version may be something, too.

Hmm, the **x64BSW (Brenneke Super Whelen)...
 
Posts: 188 | Location: Austin, TX | Registered: 12 July 2008Reply With Quote
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Buffalo Arms was offering a longer version of 284 brass, have to look and see how much longer, or if was basic brass.
That said, I have a 375/284 on a 1910 mex, with the bullets seated out, for max capacity it has plenty of power for anything on this side of the pond. The next step up would be the 376 styer I guess.
 
Posts: 7446 | Registered: 10 April 2009Reply With Quote
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not for nothing .. 376 steyr is within .025" of what you are describing ....

the 284 is .500 at the base, the steyr is about .505 .. you are looking for .473 case head..the steyr is .496 .. you could likely recut the steyr rim, with a 20 dollar tool, and get EXACTLY what you are looking for...

with factory brass, dies, reamers, etc, available...

or pay 50 bucks for your boltface to be opened up

in short, i just saved you 2 years, 1500 bucks, and the endless frustration of figuring out the 376 after the fact...

of course, you could start with 458 winmag brass, remove the belt, recut the extractor, and have a 375x284 is thing


opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club

Information on Ammoguide about
the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR
What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR.
476AR,
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Posts: 40075 | Location: Conroe, TX | Registered: 01 June 2002Reply With Quote
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El Jeffe

Quit making sense or there will be no need for a wildcat forum popcorn

Rich
 
Posts: 227 | Location: West Central Sask | Registered: 16 December 2000Reply With Quote
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