i put in a call to dave clay and he gave a rough estimate for those who would want to do a 45-80. for the unwashed masses the 45-80 is my wildcat idea that is either a .2" longer case or .2" longer oal for a marlin 45-70. trim down 45-90 brass (avaliable fron starline ect) and viola!

he said between $500 to $700. yes that is a lot to most but for those who have marlinleveritis and you want more out of yer 45-70 it may not seem outrageous, especialy since you would not need to invest in any dies, brass, bullets or a new barrel ect. and could still use factory 45-70 ammo.

i dont know how much wild west guns in alaska is charging for their 457 magnum conversion but i think this would be much better (100% better to be exact)

yes i have to finish my 470 a.r. and i would like a soon to be 375 ruger but i have this in my sights as a fun project.

I think the 45-90 is a 2.4" case length, the same as the 45-80 and 45-85.

Just curious. Do you think that extra .2" case length will result in any ballistic improvement over the 2.4 or 2.1 inch cases? Isn't the limiting factor the strength of the Marlin action?

Ray

dave says you can run the marlin at 47000 psi but not a steady diet of that preasure (please no psi posts!) i think between 40 and 42k psi is reasonable and that is what dave does so no it wont diminish the strength in terms of practicality... the 45-80 will be .1" shorter than the 45-90 but the 45-90 wont work in the marlin thus the genious of the 45-80. the advantage is more powder room when using the 525 gr piledrivers and more velocity when using the 350ish grainers. it wont make it into a 458 win mag but will give it a significant boost.

if wildwest guns thinks its 457 magnum is worth doing than the 45-80 is doublie worth doing (did i just make up a word )

Boomstick,
Maybe I'm missing something but the max loadings possible should essentially be limited by OAL, assuming no change to action strength. How does a longer case help ?
Joe

boomy,
you mean something like this?
http://www.wildwestguns.com/Ammunition/ammunition.html

quote:

Case Preparation Steps:

1) Trim cases to a uniform length between 2.205 and 2.210 inches

If you can't increase your OAL by the same amount then making the case longer will give you no increase in net capacity. If you can increase the OAL why not just seat the 45-70 longer? If needed cut a new groove in that puppy.

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:
If you can't increase your OAL by the same amount then making the case longer will give you no increase in net capacity. If you can increase the OAL why not just seat the 45-70 longer? If needed cut a new croove in that puppy.

and extend to 3.1, you get the 45/7 nitro!!!

dave can increase the oal by .2"

he actualy got the 50-110 to work in a marlin but could not get it to feed well so he feels .1" less will have no problems. (the 50-110 is a 2.4" case)

yes el jeffe the 45-80 will be .1" longer than the 457 magnum by wwg which is .1" longer than the 45-70.

cheechako...

if the 45-80 will not be enough for you than my idea of a 2.3" case 450 alaskan ackley improved will fit yer bill. i dubbed it the 450 african becuz well it will have more case capacity than the 458 win mag. get a 450 alaskan a.i. reamer (make sure the body taper is blown out and has about .007 or .008 total body taper, a 35 or 40 degree shoulder and a cal length neck ) and grind the rim part back .2"

this uses 50-110 cases cut back.

the 450 african i believe with a 450 grain wide long flat nose should get up to 2150 fps with hotloads and 2050 fps on a regular diet.

the only bad news is no factory ammo and the cost of the reamer ect.

realisticly the 45-80 will get you 75 more fps so if you are running 405s at 1925 fps you would now get 2000 fps. ect ect but the lighter the bullet even more so.

wild west guns in ak charges 300 bucks for their 457 conversion. so figure double performance increase for double the cost with the 45-80. they are getting 350's @ 2200 and 405's @ 2000. so figure close to 2300 with the 350s and about 2075.

the 450 african... much more!!!

just imagine .540" at the shoulder 40 degree shoulder and 2.3" brass

boom stick, since you seem intent on squeezing the most potential possible from a 45 caliber Marlin 1895 rifle it is clear that the 348 Winchester or 50-110 case should be the genesis. Which leaves one with the 450 Alaskan Improved. A 2.145", 2.255" or 2.3" case with little taper, a 40 degree shoulder and 2.75" COL (0.1" shorter than the 450 Alaskan in the 71/1886. There are already reamers and dies for it. Most bullets designed for the 45-70's 2.55" COL would seat to the cannelure on a 2.3" case to yield a 2.75" COL.

JACKFISH...WHERE CAN I GET THE 2.3" A.I. ALASKAN REAMER? THANKS

Boomstick,
even if the Marlin is altered to take OAL of 2.75" it still makes more sense to stick with 45/70 cases IMO. Why ? Use the 350gr Speer FN (designed for 458 speeds). Loaded to crimp groove location this bullet has an OAL of 2.69" in a 45/70 case (2.3" would be too long for this bullet loaded to its crimp groove). Not sure other run of the mill 45/70 bullets (Nosler excepted) can take so much speed. For larger stuff have a custom mould made up to give desired wt, nose design, crimp groove location that maxes use of available case capacity and OAL of action. A custom mould is lot cheaper than messing with longer case etc etc and everything is still std.
Joe

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
JACKFISH...WHERE CAN I GET THE 2.3" A.I. ALASKAN REAMER? THANKS

Sorry, the 450 Alaskan AI reamer would not be for a 2.3" case. However, one might be able to take the neck to that length with perhaps a controlled depth from a 450 Lott reamer. Then custom dies could be made from a chamber cast. But you are not going to gain anything from a 2.3" case over a 2.145" case if the COL is the same at 2.75" and other case dimensions are the same. The 350 grain Speer would seat to around 2.735" COL in a 450 Alaskan.

I would recommend that you have Dave Clay rechamber the Marlin 1895 to 450 Alaskan and modify the rifle to cycle 2.75" COL rounds. I suggest the 450 Alaskan over the improved version for a couple of reasons. One, the standard 450 Alaskan will feed more reliably than the improved version and, two, the difference in performance is really negligable for all practical purposes. The case capacity of the 450 Alaskan is already effectively greater than the 458 Winchester Magnum. One can achieve 4200 fpe muzzle energies with the 450 Alaskan, which is sufficient for just about anything that walks, crawls, swims or flys. A 350 grain Speer at 2300 fps or a 400 grain Swift A-Frame FN at 2150 fps should be enough on both ends for anything you are likely to come across.

i wuz thinkn again about the 450 african idea again and was comparing it to the 450 gnr


if the 50-110 case is necked to the 458 with the short neck beginning at the 2" mark and 2.3" case length the 450 african will have the same capacity as the 458 lott! that should give 458 win mag performance at acceptable preasures for the marlin

granted it will have a minimal neck and accuracy will suffer but heck...its a 100 yard stomper x2

H.F.S. bat man! http://www.reedercustomguns.com/information/GNR_cartridges.htm

Is the skinny Marlin barrel shank strong enough for the larger .348/ .50-110 case head?

it does fine with the 50 alaskan (348 case blown out, same as 50-110)

re: the 45-80...

soldier of fortune has a great article on the 457 mag (2.2", 45-70) and how it smack'd down a big brownie in a.k. shooting a 350 gr bullet 2220 fps... now imagine a 400 gr bullet going about the same speed and there you have the 45-80



if you extend the max oal and want to use 45-70 brass you could use the speer 400 gr flat point and use the first canalure for the same performance