Some said it couldn't be done, others said it shouldn't be done. Our own Urodoji put me up to this....

From my posts in African and American Big Game Hunting

Greetings and Salutations -

I've been away from these boards for some time and even when I was here more frequently, I typically stuck to "Big Bore" and "Wildcat" forums. However, we just did the first round of testing of our new .470 Rhino caliber and it is meeting (if not exceeding) our expectations.

What is a .470 Rhino?
The case is a modified .500 Jeffery case, designed to function in an AR-10 or DPMS LR-300 series semi-automatic rifle. I realize these rifles are atypical for Big Game hunting, but perhaps that was also due to the lack of a cartridge that was truly suitable for big game.

Enough words, what about numbers?
480 gr Woodleigh, 24" barrel, 2,250 fps
500 gr Barnes RN solid, 24" bbl, 2,125 fps

That latter number puts it right next to .470 Nitro Express, which is what the customer who sponsored the project wanted.

More information, including pictures and video, can be found HERE
as well as on our website under "What's New"

We are looking to have brass made and are looking at the .416 and .375 versions next.

Perhaps somewhat unorthodox, but we felt this would be perhaps the ultimate back-up weapon for a guide/PH, with 8 rounds in a magazine ...

Hope y'all don't mind us sharing ...

awesome!

can you make a .510 .500 and 458 too

any of those would be awesome too
p.s. how much do they cost???

p.p.s. can you try those 275 gr barnes x pistol bullets to see how fast they'l fly???

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
awesome!

can you make a .510 .500 and 458 too

any of those would be awesome too
p.s. how much do they cost???

p.p.s. can you try those 275 gr barnes x pistol bullets to see how fast they'l fly???

I have dies for the 458 version and could improvise the 510 version with my 500 Phantom dies (it is .510). Not sure about .500 version.

Cost depends a bit on how you dress them up but a complete DPMS LR-300 UPPER (not the whole rifle) in this caliber can be had for around $1200.

Err, I have some of the 275s IIRC, not sure if they are XPBs, but we can see what they can do. The 400 XTPs were slower than expected (a mere 2400 fps)

The folks in the African Big Game forum appear somewhat displeased with my post ...

the 510 should be the most efficient i think...

unless it can be necked to 550

doing a 400 instead of 416 and a 358 instead of a 375 (although i think the 375 would be way cool too) would be great for versatility and cheap pistol bullets for plinking...wich also is part of the genious of the 470.

this is a non traditional rig so most in the african forum will look down on it...also you cant hunt with a.r's in africa but i am sure you knew this already.

how many times can you use the brass before it has had it???

I am not sure you can neck it to 550 but 500 would be doable. 458 would be relatively cheap for plinking 300 JHPs.

You CAN hunt with ARs in Africa, just not many countries.

THe Phantom brass is holding up for 7-8 reloads, this should not be much different

Marty,
Congrats... we need that to come to a bubba shoot!

jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Marty,
Congrats... we need that to come to a bubba shoot!

jeffe

Strangely, I seem to recall several of the "bubbas" also being Big Game Hunting afficionados, and while I feel welcome at the Bubba Shoots, the African crowd (at least some) appear a bit begruntled by my post. If I can attend a Bubba Shoot and have the upper (or another one of them) at hand, I will most certainly endeavor to make it ... afterall, it was you who supplied the brass (5 failed when going from 416 to 375, I forgot to anneal at 2 AM )

Don't worry about the less than enthusiastic response that the core African hunting crowd gave to your idea. There are lots of people who would enjoy a big bore AR15, and your cartridges fits right in. It also looks a bit more potent than the 458 SOCOM, which is a plus.

Realistically, almost no one would attempt to take a semi-auto on a buffalo or elephant hunt, except for national parks officers engaged in a cull. One problem is that no African country except Zimbabwe will allow a semi-auto in. The next problem is typical African paranoia. I can imagine an African customs officer seening a black gun and saying, "You are going to use this rifle to kill our President."

Nonetheless, it would still be a lot of fun.

whats the recoil like???

Martytw,
Hi what a fun gun. Semi autos are banned here in Australia. Is a ar10 a bigger stonger model to the ar15? I didn't realise ar's were strong enough for these sort of cartridges.Oh well something else for me to dream about.
Regards
hjl

Yes, I realize a white man with a flat top and AR slung might raise some eyebrows and suspicions in certain parts of Afrika. I just finished "Licensed to Kill" which covers the Executive Outcomes debacles in EG and SL...

Recoil was likened to a 10 gauge, stock geometry and gas operated system might tame it a bit.

The AR-10 is the big brother to the AR-15 and was actually developed first. While not officially adopted by the US, they were built under license in the Netherlands and Portugal (you will see them refered to as those variants) I held my first AR-10 carbine built by Schelde back in 1985 or so. They are traditionally chambered in .308 Win but now are also being chambered in the RSAUM line of cartridges, along with some .308 derivatives (260 Rem, 7-08). We just decided to raise the bar a bit...

marty...

wont it get more performance in a bolt action???

do you plan on making a wsm gun with a switch barrel in all the cals for the development??????

p.s.

if you sell the brass, loaded ammo, chambered barrels and working models...i think you can be a commercial success

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
marty...

wont it get more performance in a bolt action???

do you plan on making a wsm gun with a switch barrel in all the cals for the development??????

I suspect it will do better in a bolt gun and I already have a Savage long action readied for the project ... However, a WSM or RSAUM bolt action in the 416 or 338 variant would be quite the short, solid platform ...

We plan to sell brass, loaded ammo, barrels and full rifles (through our partner shop)

I would love to be a commercial success

can you post a case drawing with dimensions...

the wsm platform would be a heck of a packing gun that would pack a wholop!

hjl, I remember seeing pictures of Australians hunting with Browning Automatic Rifles, or BARs, in calibers like .300 WinMag. When did they become illegal?

Hi Wink,
Sadly semi auto became illegal in 1996.
Pre 1996 I had a BAR in 270. Ah the good old days. We can only dream about semi autos now.
Regards
hjl

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
can you post a case drawing with dimensions...

the wsm platform would be a heck of a packing gun that would pack a wholop!

I would like to "hoard" the dimensions for now, but think of it this way:

500 Jeffery case cut off at 2.00", necked to caliber of choice, 35" angle, and about 1.5 caliber neck length. Essentially a RSAUM on steroids.

marty...

increase the volume by 15% by having a 2.1" case and only a cal length neck...

also what about a 284 win case necked up to 458 to work in a 308 win size a.r.??? should be better than a 45-70 cuzz the higher preasures you can run. what do you think???

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
marty...

increase the volume by 15% by having a 2.1" case and only a cal length neck...

also what about a 284 win case necked up to 458 to work in a 308 win size a.r.??? should be better than a 45-70 cuzz the higher preasures you can run. what do you think???

Customer specified the dimensions so that limited us a bit. Neck might be shorter than stated, working of memory. Also, to get the bullets seated at cannelure AND fit the magazine, we have to go with 2.00 as most .470 bullets use 0.8" protrusion ...

.284 cut off at 1.77 fitted with .451 is known as the .45 Professional, now known as .45 Bushmaster. You MIGHT be able to do .458, but I don't like headspacing on the case mouth. Some folks have done 444 Marlin Rimless on .308 brass. It could work in principle, but I suspect the ribs in the mag will get in the way ... also seem to recall USMC tested the 6.5 x 284 in the SR25 and had issues with the slightly thicker case bulging and binding the mags ...