Hello fellows,
I know there to be a plethora of .30-06 based rounds, both in smaller and larger caliber, but what is the biggest ever development of the .308 case?
What is the largest meaningful one existing?

Seems to me the .338 Federal first existed in wildcat form, and is now rather a handy factory load.

The .405 Belted Express at the right, .350Mag middle and .358Win to the left.
https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6521043/m/408100698

I think this one is superb in a short action, but you can see in the .440Mag thread that that is max on the .473 boltface.

The .308 can be opened to .416, but there are hardly any bullets suitable. The 375-308 is a debated round, some claim it useless, but to me, 2500 fps with a 250 grs bullet seems pretty good.

There is a 44cal that headspaces off the case mouth, that's the largest that can be done.

I built a 375/08 and played with 190gr pills at a modest 2400fps. It has a historical counterpart with a 190gr pill in the 375Velopex. I sold the rifle, but will be building another on a Ruger or BLR with short 20" barrel. My 375/08 was a funny beast in that it didn't respond to powders the way my 358Win did. Guy I sold it to will be doing some field testing on pigs and maybe a scrub bull or buffalo.

Largest practically speaking is the 358Win ... but the 375/08 is a reasonable alternative if you want something totally different. There are enough lightweight 375cal pills to make it viable and the 270gr RN is short enough to also be usable. Lightweight pills dry up above 375cal however.
Cheers...
Con

Well something to note the 425 WR bullet is short from tip to canalure so you could do a short action I think a 2.25" case for neck tension so the 425 is viable IMHO.

44 automag .. guess you could go longer

Ok, Thanks!

Bent:
The belted ones you refer to - are they actually made out of the .308 Win which itself is not belted?

.375-308 sounds pretty impressive to me.
Look at the 9,3x62 - typical velocity is 2400 fps so 2500 in my view is plenty enough!

Are there any comparable large metrics, e.g. 9,3mm?
And is there an "existing" 8mm variant (which for all intents and purposes, of course, would be the same as the .338 Fed)?

the 358 winchester kills everything you point it at

quote:

Originally posted by Schauckis:
Ok, Thanks!

Bent:
The belted ones you refer to - are they actually made out of the .308 Win which itself is not belted?

.375-308 sounds pretty impressive to me.
Look at the 9,3x62 - typical velocity is 2400 fps so 2500 in my view is plenty enough!

Are there any comparable large metrics, e.g. 9,3mm?
And is there an "existing" 8mm variant (which for all intents and purposes, of course, would be the same as the .338 Fed)?

No, they are made from .240 Wea'by, but those can be made from .308 by swaging a neck on them...

The .375-.308 should be very impressive with 250's, as it would give higher velocity with same weight as the .358 Win, but I doubt any game would feel the difference. It would be close to the 9,3x57 or the .375 NE/9,5x57 MS.
A 270 at 2200 would be sweet for woods game, and a real powerhouse, although not political correct in the world of Ultra Mag's. The 8mm-08 is a known wildcat, and pretty close to 8x57.

All by all, I am surprized - very - that the .375 has not become a hit in both the 06 and 08 case.

Wildcatting can be more about mental vs practical but some things to consider...

How important to you and functionality is

Crimp
Taper
type of headspace beit shoulder, belt, casemouth or the little used case taper itself. (rimmed cases not included in this catagory being bolt action)

Zero taper, casemouth headspace and thin neck on the 6.5x55... 458 call this the 458 PCD (Put the Crackpipe down) My own musings yet to be made into a dummy or let alone fired and might be too dangerous.

Zero taper 08 case and casemouth with 45 cal pistol bullets. Been done before.

Rimless .435" WR bullet some taper and casemouth headspace let's call this the 425 Woods Stalker. (Let's call the full 06 length the 425 Woods) Both my ideas but just that as of yet.

Rimless 444 headspace on casemouth some taper. Been done before

Belted, crimped and zero taper is the 440 Magnum. (same parallel sided length as the 460 S&W) Dummy round made thanks to Bent but no guns yet.

Belted, taper and crimp 425 Fossdal short. Dummy rounds made, no guns yet.

The Fossdal short could be the best depending on criteria.

But as the wise and experienced catter jeffeosso has put to us... point the 35 win at anything and it will die as long as you do your part.

If headspacing on the shoulder, I would have to say like on the 30-06 case, .411 would be the largest with a reliable shoulder. Althoug it takes careful reloading to do this properly. A 41-08 with 350 gr bullets might be stretching to get my above 2000fps. 400's I think 1800fps could be had. Now the lighter 300's I think you MIGHT be able to get to 2300fps ranges. For sub 100-150 yard ranges you could deliver some heavy punches.

The 9.3-08 would be extremely similar to the 9.3x57, which again would be so close to the 358 Win that there's not enough difference to make a case.

The 350 Rem Mag, shown in the 2nd post, has been necked up to 9.3, the 9.3 Barsness-Sisk. Gives solid 9.3x62 performance from a short action

If it is the BIGGEST the 458 with some cheating (Larger 6.5x55 case, Zero taper, casemouth headspace and thin neck)

Next the 45 cal pistol
The 425 WR rifle bullet .435"
Then the 44 cal .432"
Lastly the 423" 404 bullet.

The 411 leaves too much on the table to be considered largest but is still a great option especialy when you want to consider using the shorter tip to canalure 405 bullets and using the 411 Hawk reamer to 2.25" to use up all of the magazine length. I nicknamed this idea the 400 Raptor to get 405 win power in a short action 06 casehead/cases.

quote:

Originally posted by Bent Fossdal:

All by all, I am surprized - very - that the .375 has not become a hit in both the 06 and 08 case.

The world, my friend, is too speed conscious for that wisdom...

As for the rest of the comments:
Thank you all very much!!


This responded precisely to my quest(ion).
It is interesting to note the relative popularity of the -06 developments over the -08s'. However, given the larger case I suppose it's inevitable. Also, of course, the case has been around for almost half a century longer...

What induced me to ask about this was my latest experience with a .308 Win. A nice and handy gun it makes, but I am allergic to the caliber in all but military applications, and generally for my hunting I consider it to shoot too light bullets - and a mite fast, too. So this lead me to think if there might be a valid option to make a gun in the short action of the .308; and how much gun could one in actual fact expect to get.
I think the case capacity of the .308 does not tell the whole truth, as the CIP pressure for the cartridge is so high. Put a large diameter bullet on that which will achieve a higher velocity than a comparable .30 caliber and that should do a trick or two... As your experiences attest!

LOL I just thought that the 2.25" 411 hawk should be named the 411 HAWG That should be good for 3600 FPE or the same energy as the 06.

quote:

Jeffeosso, the 358 winchester kills everything you point it at

AMEN!!! No need to go bigger. The 358 is simply a magical round! Lou

I have a 44 Auto mag and use 308 brass for it, but you would have to blow it out to a nearly straight wall to make it longer. The 375-08 works well, a friend has done this on an Argentine Mauser...But he uses light bullets designed for the 375 Winchester. He says the heavier (even 225gr) don't have enough ass behind them.

Same guy played with .423 with no good results. I'd look hard at .366, though. Not the standard 286gr, but maybe the 250 with some H414 behind it?

As for the smallest, I sold a .17-08. Stupid round. Had to use filler to keep powder against the primer.

For bullets within functional impact velocity on the 08 your choices are custom jacket from a bulletsmith like hawk bullets, cast, any pistol, 405win, light 300 and 350 grain 423's and 45-70 bullets if you cheat and go with the larger 6.5x55 or 7x54 case(.480 vs .476 spec casehead)

This is why the 405 express, 425 Fossdal short, mini 411 hawk 440 Magnum and I forgot the 10.75x57. 404 bullet on the larger casehead like the 6.5x55 shooting 300 and 350 grain bullets.

Not ecactly the 08 case but close and will work in the same action.

The 458x57 no taper is still on the table

Unless your really into the expense and mental masturbation of wildcatting, I'd suggest just going with the .358Win.

Plenty of bullets to choose from. Ton's of cases (.308) and inexpensive dies.

Mine runs with 225 Nosler Pt's and like the man says " it just kills stuff".

It's easy to load and easy to shoot. A genuine 300 yard elk thumper or a root em out of the thick stuff round. JMHO....

quote:

Originally posted by Blacktail53:
Unless your really into the expense and mental masturbation of wildcatting, I'd suggest just going with the .358Win.

Plenty of bullets to choose from. Ton's of cases (.308) and inexpensive dies.

Mine runs with 225 Nosler Pt's and like the man says " it just kills stuff".

It's easy to load and easy to shoot. A genuine 300 yard elk thumper or a root em out of the thick stuff round. JMHO....

Fair enough, but consider this. If you had a short actioned action in say 308Win ... it'll cost the same to get it rebarrelled/chambered to 358Win as 375/08. The 375cal dies are available from CH/4d for $80ish, or you can slip a machinest a few dollars to open up a set of Lee RGB 308Win dies ... or Lee 358Win dies. projectiles from 190gr to 235gr are reasonably plentiful in 375cal and they're good pills, there's also few 250s and a few 270s as well. For an extra $100ish ... its a fun project!
Cheers...
Con