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Is there such a wildcatthat anyone knows of? | ||
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I am sure there is, but I have never heard of it. Necked to .358 it is called the .350 Griffin&Howe. I do not really see the fun in going from .375 to .366, but I do not understand everything, my wife tells me... Bent Fossdal Reiso 5685 Uggdal Norway | |||
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I believe John Barsnass and Charlie Sisk collaberated on a 376 Steyr necked down to 9.3 and called it a 9.3 B-S. Should be very close to what you mentioned without the belt. 376 brass is still available from Hornady for under a buck apiece. Paul. | |||
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Emron Why would anyone want to neck down a 375 H&H case to 9.3 ? That wildcat would have basically the same ballistics as the 9.3x64 plus some undesireable features.The 9.3x64 fits in a std length action the 375 wildcat would require a long action,the 9.3x64 is a rimless case and feeds smoother than a belted case.If case availibility is your concern x64 brass can be formed from 338 or 458 cases. If you insist on a belted 9.3 I would suggest necking up the 338 case. That has been done (9.3/338). | |||
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The .376 Steyr has about the same volume as the .375-06, and is by so a far cry from the H&H volumvise. The 64 Brenneke is also a step down in case capsity, regardless of different rumors. The 375 Ruger is close to equal in volume as a beltless version, but the H&H brass might be cheaper. Oh, and about this about smoother feeding without belts - that is also just a nursery story, although repeated so often it is close to gospel... But the only thing you achieve by necking a .375 down to .366, is that it is no longer legal against B5 all over. Bent Fossdal Reiso 5685 Uggdal Norway | |||
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I don't know much about the 9,3x375H&H but I have a .375/284 that is just a hoot to shoot! Jason Z Alberts “If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you." – Samuel Adams | |||
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Looking at my Hornady Handbook (fifth edition), it states; "The 376 Steyr falls just short of the power of the 375 H&H-and it does so with a cartridge far shorter than the H&H." I was just stating something I thought would be close to what emron was talking about. As far as the belt, that's your hang-up not mine.  Paul | |||
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9,3 sisk, is that, improved .. i have a couple cases around here, somewhere opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Remember, Hornady is marketing the .376, and "just short off" is a matter of speach... but case volumes and figures dont lie. The .376 Steyr is a 9,3x64 shortened to 60 mm and opened up to .375, so necking the .376 back to .366 seems a rather akward way to go... As for the feeding part, I was referring to Snowman's writings, not yours, but I can see how that was not obvious... Cheers, Bent Fossdal Reiso 5685 Uggdal Norway | |||
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The 9.3BS is a .350 Remington necked up to 9.3. | |||
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Snowman Hi all, I will jump in the fray here because Snowman asked a question about anyone ever doing a 9.3X338 Winchester? Well that would be me. I certainly was not the first, I think somewhere I heard of some other folks doing it. I decided to do some work with 9.3 simply because I had some M70s that needed something, and it happened to interest me. The 338 case seemed a perfect platform for it, enough case capacity to get things moving, but still yet be rather mild. I play with several wildcats in this category from 338-358 and now 9.3. I really like the cartridge, however I choose not to push things to it's limits, and it has accomplished what I wanted. I only went to 3rd generation loads with it, and I am very sure I am not at top pressures yet. The basics are Winchester M70 22 inch barrel--250 gr bullets 2650-2700 fps--286 gr bullets at 2550 fps. I played with some other bullets, and particular the 320 Woodleigh RN Soft--I really did not push that but I do like that bullet. I am not sure how it compares to other 9.3's. I like the cartridge and rifle, it is very accurate, and just a pleasure to shoot, easy to load. I am not sure when or even if I will ever get a chance to get it to the field but I would think it would do a great job on elk, bear, all plains game, things like that. I have plenty of big bore rifles for the heavies, so don't consider it in that category. Bent asks why go from 375 to .366? That is a very good, very logical question, and Bent you are 100% right, there is no logical reason to do that! However, this is the "Wildcat" forum, and sometimes we are logical--sometimes we are not! Sometimes we just want to do something different! In this smaller bore category--maybe mid-bore is more suitable--I have played with 338 and 358 in several different cartridges, but 9.3 is new to me. I doubt in any sense it is better than 375, but let me tell you my reasons. Here in SC every redneck you encounter has a 7mm Remington for deer! They all think that you can do anything with 7mm, deer, elk, bear, cape buffalo, elephant anything and everything! I don't even attempt anymore to set them straight, that they are in reality shooting a very fine "mouse gun". God, I can hear it now coming down on me! I know 7mm is actually a good caliber for deer and that sort of thing. Stretch to elk, but will do the job. But since every hillbilly redneck in town has one, I refuse to have any sort of 7mm on the compound! I rather not be in that class! Not to mention that I do very little in anything below 338 caliber, can't work up the interest. I have done a couple of 6.5s and like them, but I have a hard time working up interest. I have been working on a 6.5 WSSM for 2 yrs now and can't seem to generate enough interest to finish the load data. If the bore size had been bigger then I would have snapped to it and in short order finished it. For me 375 is the same. While I think it is a fine caliber, it is rather common and can't hold my interest. That is all,not whether it is good,or not, just can't get fired up about it. 9.3 is not any better than, just different than the masses! We wildcatters pick and choose some "wild" things sometimes, and sometimes it has nothing to do with being "logical". Tell you about not being logical! Again, have a couple of Win M70s hanging around. A few Ultra actions. I have been playing with a 358 Ultra, and I really like 358--and the big ultra case is a hammer in 358. Well I thought if 358 is good--.366 should be pretty good too! So in a few weeks I will start load development on a 9.3 Ultra. Easy to make brass from "375 Ultra", just run thru the sizer!!!!! Now that don't make a bit of sense, but here I am doing it anyway! To get back to the original ? from Emron. I am not sure if anyone has done a 9.3X375 HH, I have not seen it, but yet have not looked for it either. I think if I were to do something like that I would look at the 8mm Rem case instead of the 375. Of course they are the same. I would borrow from Layne on this one, and do the same thing he did with the 358 STA. I am a big fan of the 358 STA. I have made brass from 375 and blown it out, but it is just as easy to start with 8mm as it is almost there anyway. So I think if I were to do a 9.3 on that case I would start with 8 and end up with a case design very much like the 358 STA. For my purposes I will stay with the 9.3X338 and play around with the big ultra case. Of course another great one would be to do just like Jeffe, cut that ultra case down to 2.55 or so, put it in the same action as his AR's????? Like all of Jeffe's cartridges that would be a winner I think! Of course I am still trying to get Jeffe to cut his barrels down some too! Eh Jeffe? Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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that may be perfectly true. The 9,3 SISK, a different round, is the HH case, to 9,3. http://www.siskguns.com/sisk%2...%20reamer%20list.htm but its easy enother to email charlie and ask opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Gee, why not try a .416 Rigby necked to 9,3? That would permit heating up that Woodleigh 320 to spectacular performance levels at moderate pressures. There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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Bill That might be too much of a good thing? Anyway I suspect the 320 Woodleigh will be just about perfect at 2300 fps or so in the 9.3X338 case. Anyway I can't fit a 416 Rigby in a M70 too easy. Probably not at all. M http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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MIchael the winceshter custom shoppe made TWO 416 rigby on m70... 1 down, 1 up.. now, shorten it to 2.65 and they fit fine.. like my 500 AR opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Jeffe Yeah, I know they advertised it at one time. I was not sure Leslie had ever really got around to doing one. I liked the custom shop, but when they went over 458 Winchester they were a little lost, when they got to 470 Capstick they were without a clue! I won't say, because I never had my hands on one they did in 416 Rig, but if I had to wager I would guess that it would not retain the round in the magazine, because they didn't know how to do the rails. Neither do I, but...........! I had a heck of a time getting the 470s to work, and now that they do I don't have much interest in them anymore with the B&M series guns at play! That's pretty much what I said above, a good one would be one of yours necked to 9.3!!! But for ease of making it work in a Win M70 I would go with the Ultra case. Big ruger, different story! I think you should do one!!!! Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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The 9.3 Sisk is on the 8mm Rem Mag case, its the same 3.6" COAL, but it has the Rem's blown out case and sharp shoulder. I've also seen the 9.3 on the RUM case...and its probably been done on several others as well. If you're trying to replicate the 9.3x64 but on cheaper and more available cases, I understand...but its so neck and neck with the 375 I don't see much reason to build one. If you think every possible niche has been filled already, thank a wildcatter! | |||
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Milehigh Thanks for the sisk info, I am just kinda doing my thing and did little to no research on either of the 9.3s I am doing-the 9.3X338 and the 9.3 Ultra. They are for my purposes, nothing in the world wrong with 375, and like I said above most would not see much of a reason. That's why we wildcat sometimes to fill a niche of our own, not someone else's. I don't do 375, and since I had 9.3 bullets on hand, play with the ultra case some more. I think somewhere along the line I heard, read about but cannot place or pinpoint something about a 366 Alaskan. If I recall it was in fact the same as the 358 STA, just to .366??? Which of course all would derive from 375 HH in the beginning. Anyway................ Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Milehigh I do want to make one comment about your signature at the end of your posts. First, I like it and it is a fitting and proper tribute to wildcatters everywhere! And up until 3 years ago I would have thought that every niche in the shooting world was surely filled, and that it would be impossible to come up with anything new that has not been done, or so close to it that it was moot! However I take pride in both the work that Jeffe has been doing, and my own, both of which I think can fill a niche that has not been done in the past. A small niche to be sure, but one none the less. There are always surprises and things to be learned. While some advantages may be small, some may prove to be valuable in the end. Thanks Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Thanks! That qoute came from a friend on another shooting board, where wild catting is a 4 letter word that'll get the Nuns smacking your hands with rulers LOL! Niche/Need/Want/Gap....call it what you want, I say if there are any of those in YOUR mind, go forth and create. It is getting harder and harder however, to find the original stuff. Sometimes however, you run across some that make your jaw drop in amazement that it hasn't been done, or at least known to be done. Take a look a few posts down at the 404-375 and Poor man's 404 threads. We ran across 2 very old, popular cartridges that hand't yet been combined without improving. I think there might be something along these lines with the 9.3-375 if you left the original gentle slope and didn't blow it out. It seems more often then not, wildcatters are trying to "improve" upon something. With out 404-375, the only thing we improved on was frontal area and feeding/extraction lol. I hope I didn't come across in my previous post as shedding a negative light on Emron's idea! After I thought about it again, I can see the merrits, even if the only merrit is the wonderful construction and availability of great .366" bullets. You get the SD with 14gr's less bullet. And if you step up to the 300 and 320gr 9.3 bullets, you're getting one TOUGH bullet. I think the 9.3-375 unimproved, gives you 9.3x62 standard (250 and 286)loading ballistics...but with the heavier bullets. x64 brass is tough to find, and the x62 just doesnt shine as well with the heavy stuff since even the 286's already take up a LOT of powder space. I don't think the x66/370 Sako has solved this either, but I have no personal experience with one. One would think you could gain 2-300fps possibly, over the x62 with a 375 case with the 300 A-frames and maybe more with the 320 Woodleighs. Its not far off the 375's true, but you're getting absolutely amazing BC and SD, and penetration is hard to argue with. If you think every possible niche has been filled already, thank a wildcatter! | |||
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Maybe someone with 375 H&H reloading dies, could run a case FL without the expander ball and see if maybe the neck comes out about right to hold a .366 bullet? If that worked it would fall RIGHT in line with the 404-375 simplicity idea...use 375 brass and dies, remove the expander ball and your case creation might be done. If you think every possible niche has been filled already, thank a wildcatter! | |||
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Michael, Why not try DWM's 9,3x70 Magnum, developed sometime during the 1920s. Here's an excerpt from http://www.african-hunter.com/HatariTimes/the 9,3x70 magnum.htm: "They designed a whole line of magnum cartridges based on necked down .404 basic cases, a 7,62 mm (.300), 8 mm and 9,3 mm, back in the late 1920s. The biggest of the prototypes was the only one which went into commercial production with the serial number 569 and the official metric designation 9,3x70 Magnum. Unfortunately, the exact year of introduction cannot be verified anymore. However, the D.W.M. ammo handbook of 1930 shows five different loads for the 9,3x70 Magnum: 15 grammes (231 grain) soft point, 17 g (262 gr) Starkmantel soft point, 18,5 g (285 gr) soft nose and full metal jacket, and finally a 19,5 g (300 gr) Brenneke TIG soft nose. Old original cartridges are extremely scarce, and if you find one at all, it will cost you up to $ 500 each." Truly a modern cartridge at least 80 years old now. I have a jpg of the cartridge and chamber dimensions but couldn't figure out how to post it. Send me a pm and I'll send as an attachment if you're interested. Jim Jim  "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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For a dummy OK, but not for reloading - then you need both a correct necksizer and expander ball. Bent Fossdal Reiso 5685 Uggdal Norway | |||
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I believe there was a thread on the 9.3/300RUM wildcat a while back. Verbera!, Iugula!, Iugula!!! Blair. | |||
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A while back we discussed a cat that was the 300 h+h necked up to 366 dubbed the 366 H&H. A rebore could be done to achieve this as well as opened up dies. Easy to stamp 6's over the 0's Same with the 300 win to 366 win for same performance. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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According to CoTW, the 9.3 on a 416 Rigby case has already been done, and is called the 366 DGW after the designer, David G. Walker (if my recollection is correct). | |||
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A guy in Sweden actually made up a rifle in that chambering... Bent Fossdal Reiso 5685 Uggdal Norway | |||
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577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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boom, remember a year or so back, a guy from one of the Scandinavian countries was looking to do just that? | |||
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