The original intent was to deveolpe a cartridge more potent than an 8mm-06 (3300ft.lbs +.),that could be used in a Mod. 98, 8mmX57 simply by rechambering it and pehaps do a little work in getting it to feed properly. That gave birth to the 8mm X .425WR X 2.5" which was a flop do to soft brass.

The bolt than was modified so the .404 could be the parent case. The feed problems were greater than anticipated so a single shot follower was inserted.Developing loads was going along smoothly until the rifle contracted SET BACK.

Off and on over the last 5yrs. or so I'd wip up some mamby pamby loads and take the rifle out for some exercise. It always was fairly accurate. Such a session happened yesterday only I raised the bar a little.

180 gr. Nosler Balistic Tip, 72.3gr DP86. RP.375 UM case, 215 primer,avg= velocity 2820fps. Slightly hard bolt lift. No other pressure signs.

185gr. psp. Core lokt Rem., 72.3 gr. DP86, Bell marked .404 case, 215 primer, avg.velocity=2771fps.again slightly hard bolt lift.

185. psp. Core lokt Rem., 71gr. DP85, Bell Unmarked .404 cases, 215 primer, Mild, Avg. velocity= 2850 fps.3305 ft.lbs. NO HARD LIFT.

180gr. Balistic Tip Nosler, 71gr. DP85, Bell Unmarked .404 cases, 215 primer, Avg. velocity= 2900 fps. 3358 ft. lbs NO HARD LIFT.

All loads were accurate, ( 2" ) for 100 yds.

Why the energy level was reached with no set back indication I have no idea.Perhaps the camming step got beveled? Will find out perhaps at the next outing. roger

Old age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone..

Glad you are having some wildcat fun. ca you post pics of the cart and rig?

Roger

Good goin'.

Who said wildcats served no purpose??

I've got both of your cartridges and would be glad to post a photo for all to see, unless you are ready to do so yourself.

Ray

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Glad you are having some wildcat fun. ca you post pics of the cart and rig?

I can e-mail them to you if you send me a PM and address. Than if you like you can post them. roger

roger Be my guest,Ray. If I have your e-mail address I'll send you photos of the rifle.

From left to right. 7mmX41, 7.62mmX41, 9mm(.358)X41, .375X41 8mmX.425WR X2.5â€, 8mmX .404X2.5†.358X .404 IMP

Can you delve into the genius behind them...

No 6.5x41???

Bartsche...

that 35x41 would be great in a 357 maximum conversion six gun!

Use the trimmed 444 brass ect and a diff shell holder and you got a helova 150 yard deer be gone pack'n pistol

well looks like rReder has done it a a short neck version on the 445 supermag case called the 358 gnr that duplicates the 35 remington. not bad! yers ccould be called the 357 bartsche...

Great minds think alike..again

I missed the golden age of wildcatting by 50 years

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
The original intent was to deveolpe a cartridge more potent than an 8mm-06 (3300ft.lbs +.),that could be used in a Mod. 98, 8mmX57 simply by rechambering it and pehaps do a little work in getting it to feed properly. That gave birth to the 8mm X .425WR X 2.5" which was a flop do to soft brass.

The bolt than was modified so the .404 could be the parent case. The feed problems were greater than anticipated so a single shot follower was inserted.Developing loads was going along smoothly until the rifle contracted SET BACK.

Off and on over the last 5yrs. or so I'd wip up some mamby pamby loads and take the rifle out for some exercise. It always was fairly accurate. Such a session happened yesterday only I raised the bar a little.

180 gr. Nosler Balistic Tip, 72.3gr DP86. RP.375 UM case, 215 primer,avg= velocity 2820fps. Slightly hard bolt lift. No other pressure signs.

185gr. psp. Core lokt Rem., 72.3 gr. DP86, Bell marked .404 case, 215 primer, avg.velocity=2771fps.again slightly hard bolt lift.

185. psp. Core lokt Rem., 71gr. DP85, Bell Unmarked .404 cases, 215 primer, Mild, Avg. velocity= 2850 fps.3305 ft.lbs. NO HARD LIFT.

180gr. Balistic Tip Nosler, 71gr. DP85, Bell Unmarked .404 cases, 215 primer, Avg. velocity= 2900 fps. 3358 ft. lbs NO HARD LIFT.

All loads were accurate, ( 2" ) for 100 yds.

Why the energy level was reached with no set back indication I have no idea.Perhaps the camming step got beveled? Will find out perhaps at the next outing. roger

I’m not sure I get this one? The discussion starts with “some successâ€, yet none of the loads tested show a real increase in the 3300 ft lbs energy stated for the 8mm-06.

Another goal was to “simply by rechambering it and pehaps do a little work in getting it to feed properlyâ€, which didn’t happen either. “The feed problems were greater than anticipated so a single shot follower was inserted.â€

Then there’s the â€SET BACK†issue, and 2†groups.

Perhaps I define success differently?

Maybe success is getting to the range, and doing some shooting. If so, that’s good enough for me.

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
I’m not sure I get this one? The discussion starts with “some successâ€, yet none of the loads tested show a real increase in the 3300 ft lbs energy stated for the 8mm-06.

Kabluewy! When your right your right. I should have been more explicte in my communication. The 3300 (plus) ft.lbs. of energy was a design goal. Most accept the energy level of the 8mm-06 to be 3200 ft.lbs.max at safe pressures for an un heat treated Mod. 98.

As for the rest, thank you for clearing up my disillusionment and pointing out what a real failure I am. I'll bet if I lived where it stayed dark a good part of a year I'd learn to be as objectively cranky and negative also. roger

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Can you delve into the genius behind them...

No 6.5x41???

At the time the X 41 cartridges were designed there was little interest in 6.5 at all. Sadly the .264 Mag. came out and died. There were some military rifles bouncing around but that's about it. The 6.5 X 54 in Mannlicher had only a modest following at best and I always thought that was a great combination.

B & C rated cowboy movies and shows filled the wiggly TV screens and everyone back East wanted a Mod. 94 in 30-30. roger

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:


Kabluewy! When your right your right.

As for the rest, thank you for clearing up my disillusionment and pointing out what a real failure I am. I'll bet if I lived where it stayed dark a good part of a year I'd learn to be as objectively cranky and negative also. roger

OK, I'll bite. Sorry to read about your disillusionment and failure. Hope that works out for you. Let me know if I can be of assistance.

Objectively cranky and negative is a work in progress. Few recognize that it takes years to reach a respectful balance with that. My wife's divorce attorney has more to do with my education than living north and short daylight. That professional fellow provides me more opportunity in dealing with difficult and negative people than you could ever dish out.

My point was not to dwell on disillusionment and failure and crankiness, but instead to raise the BS flag. It is not to my way of thinking to put the words success, and serious feeding problems, and set back, etc. etc. in the same context.

Sure, just about any of us could take a respectable Mauser action, put some obscure wildcat barrel on it, blast set back of the lugs, ruin the feed rails, and the bolt face, obtain 2" groups, attain no increase in performance not offered in factory loads, and have a rifle which has no market value at all. For many of us, we have been there, done that. In my view, that is what you did deliberately, not by mistake, so it's a form of success. Congratulations.

So, do you feel better now?

KB

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by bartsche:


Kabluewy! When your right your right.

So, do you feel better now?KB

You bet! Sure do like your writting style. roger

Smells vaguely like the 325 WSM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Well, not even vaguely, more like exactly like it.

quote:

Originally posted by Magnum Hunter1:
Smells vaguely like the 325 WSM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Well, not even vaguely, more like exactly like it.

Close but a little bigger, but mine was designed in "94" built during "95" and fired in Feb. of "96". roger

Probably by the end of next summer I can give you a "success" report on the 323 Hollis I'm having put together on a Ruger or commercial Mauser magnum action - haven't decided which yet. With either I won't have to worry about feed rails, or bolt face, or set back.



KB

who made the tools for you and what did they cost, like an 8mm 2.9 inch build on RUM brass for instance would be fine for an project im thinking on.

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
Probably by the end of next summer I can give you a "success" report on the 323 Hollis I'm having put together on a Ruger or commercial Mauser magnum action - haven't decided which yet. With either I won't have to worry about feed rails, or bolt face, or set back.
KB

That's because you are a lot smarter than I. What is your wife's lawyer's name and address? roger

quote:

Originally posted by mr rigby:
who made the tools for you and what did they cost, like an 8mm 2.9 inch build on RUM brass for instance would be fine for an project im thinking on.

I'll try to dig that up for you in the next couple days. roger

quote:

Originally posted by mr rigby:
who made the tools for you and what did they cost, like an 8mm 2.9 inch build on RUM brass for instance would be fine for an project im thinking on.

The 8 X 425WR (8 X .404 X2.5)

Reamer with removable pilot--------$190.00

Dies, RCBS ( Blount),

1. Tooling Fee--$111.00

2. FL Set-------$107.50

3. Form Set---- $331.36

.358 X .404 IMP.

Reamer JGS Precision---$184.25

Dies complete RCBS.----$120.29

roger

Old age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone..

quote:

Originally posted by mr rigby:
who made the tools for you and what did they cost, like an 8mm 2.9 inch build on RUM brass for instance would be fine for an project im thinking on.

http://www.pacifictoolandgauge.com/

http://www.redding-reloading.com/

For the 323 Hollis:
The reamer was about $150 as I remember, and the FL two die set from Redding was about $159, with the tapered expander.

There is no tooling fee, because it has already been done. No forming dies are needed.

KB

That was good info to get. I like the 8mm rounds , and they are popular up here, but right now there is an dryout for 8x68S brass over here, but RUM cases are readily avialable.

i have done and am curently shooting 8mm/376 steyr, feeds great 4down in magazine, 2885 with 200 accubond, cheap brass when i bought 500 from hornady,,,,accuracy is .5 moa out to 500yds and even better with the 185 corelokt at 2975 fps.....

quote:

Originally posted by 300stw:
i have done and am curently shooting 8mm/376 steyr, feeds great 4down in magazine, 2885 with 200 accubond, cheap brass when i bought 500 from hornady,,,,accuracy is .5 moa out to 500yds and even better with the 185 corelokt at 2975 fps.....

Sounds like a winner to me. roger