what are your oppinions on the 411 express???

z-hats (fred zeglin's) longer version of the 411 hawk 2.65" length on 06 basic brass. basicly the ultimate max on cal and length that you can get on the 06. brass. 41 pistol bullets and up to 400 gr woodleigh softs. the advantage over the 411 hawk would be the room for the heavy bullets. assuming there are no feeding and headspace issues what do you think???



for comparison...

What is the capacity gain, over the Hawk? Is this an off shoot of the 9.3x66?
A 400gr 411 going over 2100fps is more than enough for NA & SA.

Great cartridge in a long action like the 700.
Better yet, strech the cases to 2,85 like my FGS's!

The .400 H&H is a .411"/400 grain on the full-length .375 H&H case. It is on my "build it" list.

jim

bent...

can you post a picture of your creation next to an 06 for us?

quote:

Originally posted by .366torque:
What is the capacity gain, over the Hawk? Is this an off shoot of the 9.3x66?
A 400gr 411 going over 2100fps is more than enough for NA & SA.

not quite sure but maybe someone knows the volume of 2.65 basic brass and shaves off a bit.

quote:

Originally posted by HunterJim:
The .400 H&H is a .411"/400 grain on the full-length .375 H&H case. It is on my "build it" list.

jim

should be good...try those barnes xpb's out of it when you get the chance

Guess I can toss peanuts as well as the rest IMHO, a 40 that can't sling 400 @ 2400 is of no interest to me.

the 411 hawk was getting 2160 with 400 grainers...

350 gr a frames were getting 2366

you need 360 grains to get .3 s.d. so the 350's @ 296 s.d aint bad...

if the 411 express can get close to 2450 fps with a roughly .3 s.d. bullet i think that would qualify as a decent d.g. cart.

north fork is comming out with a 360 grain soft point so the ultra premium bullet should take care of any minor detractions it might have.

I've played the wildcat and medium big bore came, and have learned while lots of stuff can get you excited, they most often don't live up to their claims, and try and strain to do something the standards have done for the better part of a century.

To me, the 35 whelen is the end of the road in an -06 hull, and if you want more, there is the 375 H&H, and the various 40's with a similar sized or larger hull.

Forming brass, getting ahold of special bress, etc etc in reality can be a big PITA. You can theorize all you want, but if you actually go down the road to build one, you'll likely say, dang I coulda had a 416 rem mag or 416 Rigby and would be able to get brass, bullets and even factory fodder pretty darned easy. I could download to do what the hawk does, and load up to levels the hawk can't dream of achieving.

so how do you reeeeely feel

good post...

this would be if you had wildcatting in your system which everyone has to do sometime in their life...

the good thing is good stuff comes from it every once in a while....like the a.r. carts

cant wait to fire mine

quote:

2.65" length on 06 basic brass

If you are loading in a normal 06 length magazine the longer brass will give you NO increase in net case capacity. As Z-hat says. He saw no increase over his 411Hawk.

oh, p.s.

z-hat is selling the brass a buck a pop on his website...

http://www.z-hat.com/Hawk%20Brass.htm

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:

quote:

2.65" length on 06 basic brass

If you are loading in a normal 06 length magazine the longer brass will give you NO increase in net case capacity. As Z-hat says. He saw no increase over his 411Hawk.

yeah...

some rifles might need some mag mods that is true but some rifles are better than others and it can be done...

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
bent...

can you post a picture of your creation next to an 06 for us?

Sorry about bad quality, they are taken with my telephone.

First a pick of all my FGC's, next to their little brothers, .30-06/.300FGC - .338-06/.340FGC - .375 Whelen/.375FGC


Then a pic of the .375Whelen, .375FGC and the .375 H&H


What'cha think?

they look awesome!

you are right, the shoulder could be moved forward even more...

what preasures can you run???

thanks!

p.s.

now you reed a 411

It's fun to try and squeeze as amuch out of a case as you can, but really, if you're looking for performance, there's a lot to be said for having more capacity than you need rathre than puching something to the hilt to get it to "qualify."
I have a few harebrained ideas that I'd like to try, but they aren't about hitting speed goals. There are perfoirmance expectations in the design intent, but not at all about getting the mostest, rather just getting what would be enough to have made the idea a success to me.
For instance, a 3.1" COL Rigby-based 470 that can send a 500g 2200fps would a success to me. And that would feed from an available action. (hmmm....)
But trying to get 2400 fps from the smallest case I could find doesn't interest me. That's the neat thing about the Mbogo is that it can do the deed with room to spare, and if you're happy with 2400-2450 you will never be let down. (What has it been loaded to? Something clsoe to 2600?)
BS, a big 411 is a neat idea, but you'd need a good reason. (Yeah, I know what I said! ;-) )
Say you had a M70 '06, and a 411 barrel handy. No biggie to take out the spacer, chamber for a loooong 411 and improve it. There you have it. Would anyone in their right mind go and build such a thing from scratch? Well, who here has accused any of us as being in our right minds?

You know ... the idea of a "mild" 0.411 isn't such a bad one. I've thought about it but dont have the money to "chase the dream" of a modern case to duplicate the 10.75x68 or 450/400NE. I've considered a shortened RUM (custom reamer, custom dies, $$$) or even a 416Taylor dimensioned case (more than you need but cheap components) but shooting a 0.411 (411Bowman ?) projectile. The last one, I bet a Lee 416Taylor FL die with expander removed would size necks enough to accept and hold a 0.411 projectile and the seating die would work well enough as is. Hmmm ... might order a cheap set of Lee dies and try it out... still need the custom reamer though. I certainly can find a niche for a cartridge that fires a 400gr at 2100fps, 300gr at 2400fps and can use pistol projectiles for practice and varmints. In these days of velocity hype ... we seem to forget the 404Jeffery made its reputation with 400gr at 2125fps, the 9.3x62 with 286gr at 2175, and the 450No2 with 480gr at 2175. These were British loadings and they may have had some "extra" built into the numbers. I definately support the idea of a modern mild 0.411 cartridge.
Cheers...
Con

con...

what you are describing is the 411 kdf

338 or 458 win mag case necked to 411

rent a 411 kdf reamer and neck up 338 win mag cases.

it will duplicate 416 taylor...

per bfaucett...

What does KDF stand for?



Answer: Kleingunther Distinctive Firearms. Founded by Robert Kleingunther who once worked for Weatherby. The .411 KDF and the KDF muzzle brake were two of KDF's creations. I don't know if Mr. Kleingunther is still alive or not but KDF is still in business in Sequin, Texas. The .411 KDF is very similar to the .416 Taylor. It's basically a 2.5" belted magnum case with a .411" bullet. (Feel free to correct me if I'm incorrect on any of this. I'm just going from memory.)

KDF, INC.
Phillip Koehne, Owner
2485 Hwy 46 North
Seguin, Texas 78155
(830) 379-8141

with a .296 s.d 350 gr bullet going for a target of 2450 fps getting 4,650 ft lbs of energy...that sounds good!

just found out the bowman and the kdf are the same thing

z-hat is renting the reamer...

www.z-hat.com

boom stick,
So which came first regarding the KDF and Bowman ... lets give credit where its due? Those that have tried a 350gr Hornady RN at 2400fps from a 458WM know that a similiar projectile but 0.411 diameter aint going to bounce of any soft skinned game. And a 400gr solid at 2100fps will handle the big stuff ... particularly now days when you are legally obliged to have someone guiding/backing you on the African Big 5. If you've ever tried a 10.75x68 with original 347gr at 2200fps ... you'll also know its a very soft recoiling big-bore rifle as is a 400gr at 2100fps. These mild 40s wont reach to 350m, but they'll do their job inside 200m where most of us do our shooting/hunting.
Perhaps if and when Ruger do the No1 in 450/400 ... the true 40s will rise again?
Cheers...
Con

not sure which came first...

anyone know???

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
they look awesome!

you are right, the shoulder could be moved forward even more...

what preasures can you run???

thanks!

Thanks, Boomer!

Sorry to say, I have not been too scientistic abouth this, but in the .300 I clocked 180 grs A-frames to 920 m/s, or aboth 3100f/s with no preassure signs. With the bullet seated to the bottom of the neck, it holds 70 grs of powder in the Norma204-ish burnrate.
My 220grs Woddleighs leaves the muzzle at 2650 f/s.
The others have not been tested enough to talk abouth.

Bent,
What is a "Fossdal" and is it a good thing to have it "Bent"?

maybe a stupid question, but what is the .411 hawk based off of? i mean are you using 30-06 brass, or what are you using? looks cool, btw, and you have a kick ass winchester model 95 to shoot it out of

quote:

Originally posted by .366torque:
Bent,
What is a "Fossdal" and is it a good thing to have it "Bent"?

Fossdal means "the vally with the waterfall", or "waterfall-vally", and has followed my family for the last 600 years.

Bent is my first name, is short for Benedict, and means "The blessed one"

And a good day to you, sir.

quote:

Originally posted by byf42:
maybe a stupid question, but what is the .411 hawk based off of? i mean are you using 30-06 brass, or what are you using? looks cool, btw, and you have a kick ass winchester model 95 to shoot it out of

The 411 Hawk is based on the 30-06 brass, though more easily made using cylindrical '06 brass.

Here's a picture of my '95 Winchester in 411 Hawk by Z-Hat Custom

quote:

Originally posted by Bent Fossdal:


Fossdal means "the vally with the waterfall", or "waterfall-vally", and has followed my family for the last 600 years.

Bent is my first name, is short for Benedict, and means "The blessed one"

And a good day to you, sir.

Thanks, I was just curious.
Waterfall-valley, hey, that's actually interesting.

Fossdal, Fallsdale ... tomato, tomahto.

Are those FGC cartridges similar to the Ken Howell designed proprietary cartridges for Arnold? Long .30-06 basic brass?

Hehe, Fallsdale, pretty good!
No RIP, they are full 2,85"length made from 9,3x74R. Rim turned off, new groove cut in lathe, trim to length, FL-size and fireform.
The first hundred was a lot of fun.....