Ok, there´s a 8mm-06, a 338 the AI incl. and a .35 (??) Whelen.....
But what is the biggest caliber on a -06 Case

Thank´s

2RECON

2RECON

400 Whelen is about it. You have to be careful there because there is not much shoulder to headspace on.

Ray

There is the 375 Whelen and 375 Whelen AI like Ray said the 400 Whelen but it is already improved. The various Hawks 375, 400. I have a 380PDK, 400PDK and a 416PDK(they are my own). They were actually built using 280 brass since it is longer but 06 would work.

Below is my 340, 375 & 400PDKs compared to a 375H&H. I used 06 cylinder brass for the 400. I use a 40deg shoulder so a 400 Whelen and 375 Whelen AI would look the same just shorter.

quote:

Originally posted by Cheechako
400 Whelen is about it. You have to be careful there because there is not much shoulder to headspace on. Ray

Check out this article: http://www.z-hat.com/smashing_the_headspace_myth.htm

I think you would find the 375 Scovill(375 Hawk H/S) a lot of fun out to about 400 yards.

The 425 Fossdal is the largest.

It is a belted case to .423"

P.S. 400 and all the other PDK's Rock!

quote:

The 425 Fossdal is the largest.

It is a belted case to .423"

Thanks I had forgotten about Bent's new toy. Yep basically a 240Wby case (06 head size with a rim) necked up to 423. I believe he is using custom brass so it will be a touch longer and necking up the radius shoulder was a pain in the a$$.

Gent´s thank´s a lot

2RECON

quote:

Thanks I had forgotten about Bent's new toy. Yep basically a 240Wby case (06 head size with a rim) necked up to 423.

Nit picking to be sure, but if it uses the WBy case then it's not technically an '06 based wildcat. On the other hand, the old Ackley Express cartridges which were made by reforming '06 brass to a belted configuration . . .

Nothing new is there??

Ray

You can form a belt using dies on full length cylindrical 06 cases that are 2.6" long for the 425 Fossdal.

The Fossdal and the 400 variants are my fave.

The Express cartridges (belted '06) MAY have made a little sense at one time, but so much anymore.

I have several in my collection ranging from 22 to 41 caliber.

JMHO

Ray

It is all a matter of style when we are spliting hairs like 400, 416 and 423.

Go with whatever maes you smile when you pull the trigger.

I also think you would like the .411 Hawk pushing a 300 bullet @ 2,500 fps. What are you thinking?

Looks like Ed Stevenson has used the .411 on Brown bears and Dave Scovill is impressed as well.
http://www.z-hat.com/411%20Hawk.htm
"411 Hawk... Devastating authority on moose and brown bear."
Dave Scovill, Editor in Chief "The Legacy of Lever Guns"

Information on the 338 Hawk, 358 Hawk & 375 Hawk can be found here:
http://www.z-hat.com/HawkContents.htm

The original 375 Hawk/Scovill article can be found here.
http://www.z-hat.com/Handloader166.htm

Try it, you will like it.

400, 416 and 423 on the 06 case are the gentle giants of big bores.

If I had one I would love a 7 lb open sight one.

Hawk Cartridges (338, 358, 375 & .411) approach my notion of ideal elk rounds...
Wayne van Zwoll,
Bugle, Jan./Feb. 2000

Wayne had an open sighted .411 built. I think a 2.5x8 scope is ideal for this cartridge.
http://www.z-hat.com/boltgunsinthebushes.htm

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
The 425 Fossdal is the largest.

Boomstick,
Ken Howell did a rimless 444Marlin (429Express??? ie a 44/06) headspacing off the case mouth and fitted to an M98 action. I corresponded awhile ago with a 'smith in the States that was building 44/06's and 44/08's for his customers. Both on CRF and PF actions. Trimming acccurately to the correct length is vital!
Cheers...
Con

Yes...

I discounted the casemouth version. Thanks for the correction.

Most preffer a belt or a shoulder for long guns but the casemouth is a way for headspace but I think kinda dangerous if the bellet backs up in recoil.

Considering cost, the degree of difficulty to make the case I'd opt for the 375 Whelen or the improved variant.

Jim

quote:

Considering cost, the degree of difficulty to make the case I'd opt for the 375 Whelen or the improved variant.

To me sticking a bullet in the lands and forming the case is not that different than forming an AI case.

I will not sit and argue how much the various wildcats will gain over the 375 Whelen. Nor will I magically say they will turn an 06 into a 375H&H. I have both a 375 H&H and my 380PDK. Early tests with a 260gr bullet indicate I give up just under 100fps to my 375H&H. 300grs the larger case pulls ahead by about 200+fps.

If you want a 375 on an 06 based case and don't want to form brass. Z-hat makes brass and dies for his 375 Hawk. One that we didn't mention was the 380Howell. American hunting rifles also sells formed brass and dies. My buddy used their brass for his version of the 380PDK. We cut his chamber neck longer and the brass was a press fit.

Goddamm it Paul, how could you forget my new toy??

The .411 is easy to make, either as a Hawk, Whelen or PDK. The Howell cases are a bit to long to be called .30-06 based, along with the 9,3x66 Sako, as their shoulder is in front of the 06's mouth, or at least leaves to litle shoulder to be useable.

The .425 Fossdal CAN be made from 06 cases, but involves quite a lot of work, and ends up a bit short, but usable.

quote:

Goddamm it Paul, how could you forget my new toy??

Can't help it my memory seems like swiss cheese anymore. Please forgive me.

quote:

Originally posted by 2RECON:
Ok, there´s a 8mm-06, a 338 the AI incl. and a .35 (??) Whelen.....
But what is the biggest caliber on a -06 Case

Thank´s

2RECON

http://www.sskindustries.com has some interesting cartridges.

quote:

what is the biggest caliber on a -06 case

I believe the largest caliber done on the basic .30-06 case (no belt) is .423, using the bullets for the .404 Jeffery. The cartridge is the .423 OKH, and it headspaces on the case mouth--there is no shoulder. It is a decades old design.

Along these lines, there is also a .429 called the .444 Rimless, and it also headspaces on the mouth. It uses a shortened -06 case, but you could probably make a full length .429-06. I'm not aware this has ever been done; the full length -06 case would give too much fps for most .429 bullets.

hmmmm...well it seems the largest (with case taper) has not been done yet.

the 06 case to .435" (425 Westley Richards bullets)
410 grain Woodleigh.


I name thee 430-06 for easy headstamp conversion.

YIPEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!

The full length 2.6" cases to .435" could be called the 430 Express. loading out the bullet will give the same performance though...


Wow...what an easy wildcat

long live the 430-06!

great thing is everyone already has the brass

I like it, boom stick. Woodleigh rates their .435's to a lower fps than their .423's. There's not much taper, but gunsmiths have made the .470 Capstick work, so it's likely to be enough taper. I estimate the case will hold about 80 gn to the mouth (2.494" case). QuickLoad predicts 2125 fps in a 26" barrel, matching the fps of the early .404's. For that matter, QL predicts the .423 OKH can also match the performance of the early .404 loadings, namely 2125 fps from 28". Sweet efficiency...

if you load out to 3.35" getting 2150 should be obtainable with the usable powder room increased...

I love the easy headstamp part

430-06...who wants one?

I agree, but with headspacing on the mouth, you can't crimp, so with this recoil, I'd want about .4" in the case. Maybe I'm being overly conservative? If the cylinder brass is 2.6", then you could load to the full 3.34" while keeping plenty inside the case. Is that the length of -06 Basic brass?

yes 06 cylinder unstamped brass is 2.6"

for expense sake a custom cast bullet is in order for this idea. 400@ 2150 with a long flat nose bore rider truncated cone.

quote:

06 cylinder unstamped brass is 2.6"

Who offers that? I've been thinking of making something along the lines of a .400 Whelen or a .423 OKH, and such brass would be handy.

www.qual-cart.com

from what I gather the 2.54" case (280 rem/7mm express length) will be the longest without diminishing returns and easy to obtain brass.

so there should be the 430-06 for those who want to use 06 brass and an easy cheap case/headstamp and those who want more case or use 280 brass/custom brass there can be the 430 express.

so, in short (pun)

06 length is 2.494" = 430-06
7mm express length is 2.540" = 430 express

I would think the 430-06 would be more desirable for the headstamp issue.

That is one truly irritating site: badly done backgrounds, flashing text, gaudy colors -- blech. I didn't find the basic, unstamped brass, but it's probably available there. They likely get such from one of the big guys and use this to form their .400 Whelen, etc. It appears the advantages of the .430 moniker aren't too great, for this place will do custom headstamps. All they'd have to do is put unstamped basic brass into a CNC machine, so I'd vote for your original .435-06 name. If they won't do the custom headstamp, Rocky Mountain likely would.

Cheaper and easier, Howell brass. Also longer.
Headspacing on mouth....
Never became very popular, and there might be a reason...

But I'll second asdf, QC need an upgrade on that site!!!

I can see a few disadvantages to headspacing on the mouth. (1) You have to maintain tighter control of the initial trim length. (2) Not being able to crimp requires one to seat the bullets deeper, to ensure sufficient resistance to set back under recoil. (3) For a -06 based case, you'll have to have cylinder brass, because fireforming from .35 Whelen or the like isn't an easy operation. (4) You'll have to use a 3 die set instead of a 2 die set, unless you get a perfect match with a bushing neck die. (5) It may be more difficult to obtain reliable feeding from magazine to chamber; a necked down case enters the base of the chamber more readily.

The advantages are hardly overwhelming. (1) You probably never have to trim cases after the initial trimming. (2) You get maximum efficiency from the basic -06 case and rifle actions.

They certainly haven't taken the shooting world by storm, but I have a strong urge to try one.

Bent, I followed the link in your signature and saw your .425 Fossdal. From what brass is this formed? Does one use a belt forming die on -06 cylinder brass?

well the largest with a "propper" headspace is the Fossdal...

This is a fun idea though...

What about a 45-'06 headspacing on the mouth like a 45ACP?

quote:

quote:
06 cylinder unstamped brass is 2.6"


Who offers that? I've been thinking of making something along the lines of a .400 Whelen or a .423 OKH, and such brass would be handy

I bought mine from z-hat. It is actaully 2.65" long. Compared to Howell brass it has more capacity. Since my other PDKs are blown out Norma 280 cases the price for the cylinder brass was basically the same.

Ramrod
Have you been shooting that 400 or 411 PDK?
If so how is the thing coming along?

quote:

Have you been shooting that 400 or 411 PDK?

Don't I wish.

I ended up calling it the 400PDK. After Toomanytools got the barrel installed and blued for me so quickly I was left setting waiting on dies for several weeks.

Dies came on Wednesday. When I was upstairs forming brass the wife called up saying we had a water leak. So now I have a leaking pipe in the masterbath to repair and I'm sure since the bath is torn up she will want some moe work done. I hope in the next couple of weeks.

Well when you get your bath remodel complete (thats what it will turn into) keep me posted on your progress.
I have a Springfield action laying around and a hankering to build a 400 Whelen (or some variant), your results may put me over the edge!

Snellstrom, What are you looking for?

Wayne's gel test was impressive. 2.80" high at 100 and -12" low at 300 with over 2,100 fps of energy at 300yds. 300 grain bullet cloverleaf at 100 yds is not bad shooting. 300 grain bullet @2,500 will knock down anything around here. RCBS should have dies saving you time.

http://www.z-hat.com/boltgunsinthebushes.htm