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Has anyone done a 10mm or 40 S&W pistol bullets on a straight 30-30 case? Could be good for the 25 and 30 rem case or 6.8 spc for casemouth headspace. Think of it as a supersize 30 carbine. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | ||
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When Winchester brought out the 375 Win in the Big Bore model 94 they had a 40 caliber version worked up incase the 375 didn't catch the publics attention enough and do well. The 30-30 case was also cut down for the 401 Herters Power Mag (??) for a revolver round. I think a 40 or 41 cal on the 30-30 case would be a great idea to breath new life into some old leverguns. Better yet, how about a 416 on the 444 Marlin or 356 Win case? there is already the 416 Barnes on a 45-70 case. The 45-70's FAT rim is too big for the Win mod 94 though  But then there is nothing wrong with the 375 Win. | |||
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with .400" pistol bullets there would be zero taper on the 30-30 case. .400" would be the max. Thanks for the info on the pistol case. I think it is a fun idea to make a 30-30 into a big bore IMHO. A lot of the jdj rounds are based on the 444 case. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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You could just use the 30-30's parent case - it requires less opening of the neck. It sounds like a great idea! Just a suggestion, you could design the chamber to headspace on both the neck and the rim. Just allow for a small initial elongation of the case (or not). You will never need to trim your cases. (I do this on my hornet - cases last forever!)  Regards 303Guy | |||
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Here is the 408 WINCHESTER prototype, along with the 375 Winchester for comparison. The base is a little bigger at .440". Shown are the ball round, a high pressure test, and a dummy. I have no idea why they abandonded the cartridge. Ray  Arizona Mountains | |||
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I was thinking on rim headspacing and let the brass grow although being straight there wont be much. On the 6.8spc, 25 and 30 rem casemouth is needed obviously. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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Thanks for posting that. resized 405 win bullets would be a good option. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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What was the bullet diameter for the 408 Win? It looks like the case length was about the same as the 375 Win? Boomy, you could always go with .395-375 Win to go along with RIP's resurection of the caliber. | |||
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Yes, I thought of the 395 but the pistol bullets functional impact velocities (Minus the paper patch bullets), weights and lengths of the bullets are better suited to this case and lever actions. Resized 405 win bullets and 180 grain speer gold dots in this would rock. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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I dont have any 30-30 cases or 40/10mm bullets right now to make a dummy but if someone has those and dont mind 5 min of fun please do and post a pic or email it to me and i will post it.  577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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I have both... maybe have time this weekend... I also have the 10mm magnum ( in an Automag 4, & a 10" Contender barrel ) ( the 10mm Magnum is about the balistic twin of the 401 Power Mag )... I also have a 375 Winchester my current project, is an 8mm bullet in a 32-40 case ( which you could use for your project... brass is less plentyfull, but the 32-40 is an 1/8" or so longer than the 30-30... but people do use 30-30 case to make 32-40 cases even though they are shorter ) my local builder & I were just talking yesterday about a straight walled 416 rifle...he's currently doing a short 50 cal, by cutting 348 cases to 1.5"... | |||
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Thanks Magnum Wheel Man!!! The 32-40 case would be better! Because of the headspace on the rim using 30-30 or 32-40 cases will work but the 32-40 would be better to crimp the canalure on the pistol bullets and the 30-30 would be better with resized 405 win bullets. If you could do one on the 32-40 cases that would be cherry on top. Thanks again. looking forward to seeing a dummy   577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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I discussed this a little with my shooting / reloading mentor ( a retired tool & die guy that has been building guns for over 40 years ), he said it could be done, but the cases would need to be annealed, & the inside of the necks reamed to properly fit a 40 cailiber bullet in a 30-30 case... he recommended using a 38-40 case instead... ... then drifted off about making 401 power mag cases out of 30-30 cases & thinking the base was a few ,001's smaller in diameter than the case mouth, but the cases handled the pressure ( must have stretched at the base to match the cylinder diameter ) we also talked about the 375 Winchester Which I also have & I think the case dimensions are similar, so tht migh be easier to open to 40 cal, though it sounds as if I'll have a buldge where the bullet base is inserted into the case, unless I ream the case mouth... | |||
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If you are determined to use the 30-30 case head, as compared with other sizes such as the 375 Winchester, why not simply start with the 30-30 Basic brass? No necking up is necessary. Trimming would be required. Ray Arizona Mountains | |||
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How long is 30-30 brass? I have never seen it but yes, trim and stuff with maybe a few thou case neck thinning. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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Yes, I thought that it might need to shave a few thou on the case neck but wanted to measure it to see how much or just make an accomodation on the reamer. I was hoping that after necking up to .400" it would be a tad thinner. Cant wait to see the dummy round. I like the 2.130" one better.577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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boom The 30-30 Basic that I got from Huntington is 3 1/4" long so I suppose I'd best say that it requires a lot of trimmimg. Ray Arizona Mountains | |||
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WOW! please confirm 2.25" or 3.25" What is the thickness at the neck? @ 3.25" long that could make a neet 375. Thanks. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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CHEECH... I just went through all the brass lsted on Huntingtons website, & found no 30-30 basic ( I bought some of my 32-40 cases from them ) what brand cases were those ??? | |||
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You shouldn't have to turn or ream the necks at all. I ran a 416 expander into a 30-30 case and as far down as the caliper would go, it never got over .011". The necks started at .010". A 375 case also was .010" as far as the caliper would go. 30-30 cases are pleantiful and cheap. You could always plug the neck with a piece of wax, then fireform in the 40-30 chamber to get cases to start with. You might have to trim the case mouth to just square things up. With the right sized number punch, you could probably stamp a 4 over the 3 to get 40-30 Win on the head stamp. The 375 and 32-40 cases may be longer, but I don't think maximum performance is needed here. If we want max velocity, then go with a larger case like the 444, 45-70 or 50-90. SSK's JDJ rounds were made so there would be no neck turning once the cases were formed. The same could be done here. Expand a case, seat the longest bullet you think you'll ever want to try, measure the case and have the reamer made to fit. A 416 straight walled round would probably have to be done on the 30-40 or 303 case. With a 40 cal you should be able to get a 300gn bullet up to 2000 fps and stay around 50k pressure. Another thought just popped in. If you wanted to do a .416 on the 30-30 case the base would have to expand some. I read somewhere about putting a thin piece of tape around the base of the case to keep it centered in the chamber while fireing. This will keep the case head centered in the chamber when fireforming. You may have to shoot them a couple of times to get the cases to fully fill out. maybe starting with lower pressure loads at first so they don't split??? One guy talked about makeing 284 cases from 30-06 brass this way. I think the .416- 30-30 would only be a minor stretch. | |||
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Confirm. They are 3 1/4" long. Same length as the 405W Basic, 45 RCBS basic, 450NE Basic and 50 Basic. I got a bunch of them several years ago. They have no headstamp. The mouth diameter is .390" inside and .412 outside. I had forgotten about the 405W Basic. It is .440" inside and .451" outside at the neck. Base is .458" and the rim is .541". Bertram brand. It would probably be a good idea to call Huntington's and ask what they currently have. Ray Arizona Mountains | |||
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I like the originally posted suggestion a little bit better so far. That is, the use of .40 or .41 pistol bullets in the .30-30 case, in essence making a .40-30 or .41-30. It would give a round producing ".38-40-Super" ballistics, which would easily feed through a M94 with little or no action smithing. Very handy to me. And wouldn't require to be done only on the newer steel actions. Brass would be sturdier (than .38-40), too, and easier to come by IF the length was kept to that of the .32-40 round. Another reason for keeping the brass short is so that fire-forming of .38-55, 32-40, .32 Special, or .30-30 rounds would likely work just fine. There are already half a zillion mould designs which would work to make bullets. I think that would make a neat woods loafer's gun. If I wanted more power, I'd likely use a different case with more powder capacity which would still feed through a M-94...say, maybe a .401" or .411" bul;let on a .356 Win case. But then I'd have to use .308 rimnless brass to get easy to easy to find, cheap, stuff...and would do away with the convenience of headspacing on the rim. | |||
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This is excelent news! no neck turning is big. I thought it might be thin enough and I guess it is  The Idea was to get Maximum bore size with minimal mods on cheap 30-30 brass with cheap pistol bullets and lever actions. Being that this is the same case as long as the preasures do not exceed what the gun can handle that is great. old ones keep in the lower preasures and modern 30-30's run higher like the Marlin XLR. What is the best guess as to what 180's and 200 grain pistol bullets can do fps wise? 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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I am glad you like the idea. The idea is for minimal mods, cheap bullets and 30-30 brass like I said. This would be a helova light recoiling big bore. Because it headspaces on the rim longer shorter brass could be fired in a slightly longer chamber. But being that 30-30 brass is so plentiful and cheap that is what would make this cart desirable. a 200 yard big bore pistol bullet deer/hog zapper on a 30-30 convesion. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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Help me if I am wrong but the 30-30 can be loaded to 2.6" max but to get the stubby bullets to feed 2.55" oal is best. The 180 to 200 grain bullets are about 3/4" long so you only have 1/4" of the bullet in the 30-30 case. here is the hornady 200 grain XTP  577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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I'll have some pics in the morning... 30-30 case split under the 38 special sizing die... the 375 Winchester did go... but the sizing plug for my 10mm die, only sizes the case about 7/16" before belling the mouth, so if the chamber were reamed, then fire form the 10 X 375 you'd be in business | |||
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FWIW Bertram makes a 30/30 basic case that is 3.25" long. | |||
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Thanks MWM  Yes fire forming would work well and being no sharp shoulders on any of the cases it will work great. the 416 expander would be the most efficient way I guess. being that the neck thickness is right this is quite an easy case to form. Anyone with quickload out there that can do some velocity predictions on 180's and 200's? the 300 grain resized 405 win bullet would have almost the same SD as a 405 grain 45-70 bullet. FYI 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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BTW... I used a 200 grain XTP in the 375 Winchester case... | |||
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COOL! what OAL? What do you think the max oal could be and cycle in a 30-30 levergun? 2.55"? 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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right now, I have the split 30-30, a loaded 30-30, a 35 Remington, a 357 Herrett ( uses 30-30 brass ), 375 Winchester, 200 grain XTP in 375 Winchester case, & 45-70, in a bag, camera is at work, so I'll line them all up & snap a pic in the morning... | |||
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I seated the bullet about a caliber deep, I'll measure it next time I go into the "man cave"... | |||
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I think fire-forming would be the number one way to make cases, BUT think it would likely be possible to expand .30-30 cases without splitting them, too. To do that, I think a long, specially-made expander with a shallow angle of approach might be needed. I make my own on my lathe, so I have made some which I use to expand 6 m/m BR brass to .32 BR...that's a pretty good stretch from .243" to .323", but using a good inside the case-mouth lube, I can do it in one pass without losing a case. Why don't I just use 7 m/m BR brass instead, you ask? How about because I got a heck of a buy one time on 6 BR brass? I also use the same expanders to open .220 Russian brass from .224" to .311" for my .30 PPC. Either way it is about the same amount of expansion (or a little less percentage-wise) as is needed to open the .30-30 to 40-30. And No, I don't anneal the cases first. Or ever, for that matter. And, of course with new, unfired brass, which has never had any work hardening beyond what it took to draw it initially, should work even better. Still, one of the main attractions of the whole idea for me is that I can make brass just by shooting cheaply available ammo in the rifle. | |||
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would it be best to add taper to the chamber to ensure smooth extraction? 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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For a roughly 2" long case, I'd think .003" or .004" taper from one end to another would be PLENTY, if you wanted any at all. Much more than that would give you a case and a chamber which was tapered, then not (became parallel), if it was really going to fit the case neck to the bullet so that case neck-tension would hold the bullet in place in a lever action's tubular magazine. | |||
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Gotcha... So the paralel sided case keeps the bullet in place. so the chamber would be .425" at the neck and .428" at the base? 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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http://www.pac-nor.com/barrels/ Pac-Nor makes 10mm barrels FYI 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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So a straight case will have about 50 grains capacity or almost the same as the 35 Rem... interesting! I think 200 grain bullets should be able to do 2,300 FPS dont you??? 460 smith and wesson performance 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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OK so if the 30-30 means 30 cal bullet loaded with 30 grains of smokeless powder than in that same spirit this could be called the 40-40  577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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The Lee expander buttons work really well for opening up necks. They are very smooth and have a long gradual taper. You can get the 2 die sets for real cheap($11 on sale). I tried opening 30-30 cases with 350 Rem Mag, 375 H&H, 416 Taylor dies in one pass(lubed on the inside). They all opened up without any problems. I think it would be better to go in steps though. The .416 case held 49gns H2O. 40-30 would denote the caliber and parent case, ie 25-06, 338-06, 7mm-08...  | |||
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