First of all, I agree with Ray A. that wildcatting is pretty much dead now. But that doesn't stop rifle loonies from imagining things. Playing with a couple of 416 cartridges, I have realized that there isn't an ideal match for what I want among the factory offerings. In terms of performance, the goal is simply a 400 gr. 416 bullet at no more than 2100 fps. Ok, easy enough. But, lets say also that ideally the case capacity would be such that at close to 95-100% load density, with current powders, and pressures about like SAAMI specs for a 30-06, that velocity was the end result. An additional requirement would be the ability to make cases from readily available cartridges, and good feeding in a standard length action could be assured with minimum or no modifications. The 416 Taylor seems the best candidate to me. The 416 Ruger is the closest match in a commercial round. Pretty easy to load those to 2100 fps with a 400. But still larger than needed. Oddly, it might be easier to feed a 416 Taylor at the present time as the Ruger brass doesn't seem to be available anywhere, and can't be made from anything else except a 375 Ruger. What are the best options for achieving this?

400 whelen does all that with a .411 bullet

If it’s cheap and accessible brass, the 93x62 brass is technically a few thousandths larger if you required a tiny shoulder. You could load out to 3.6” with the right action. Shoulder or case mouth or extractor headspace on the 06 or 9,3x62 case would be up front cost and then cheap brass. If you are stuck the 416 and 06 case, I would do a Mauser style and headspace on the extractor but that is just me. YMMV. It’s fun to design your own thing and be different.

Wild catter's will have to wild cat.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
Wild catter's will have to wild cat.

Yes they do. Wish there were't so many obstacles now.

Just imagining cartridges and paying no attention to availability of dies &etc, I'd say a 7,5x55 Swiss necked up to 416 would be perfect. Case diameter is .500", so the capacity is roughly the same as '06, and it's wide enough to end up with a usable shoulder for headspace. The 284 Winchester is essentially the same case as the 7,5 but with a rebated rim.

How's that for wild, cat?

425 westly richards?

i mean, i've done over a dozen wildcats .. didn't someone neck the 450 marlin down to .416?

quote:

Originally posted by bpesteve:
Just imagining cartridges and paying no attention to availability of dies &etc, I'd say a 7,5x55 Swiss necked up to 416 would be perfect. Case diameter is .500", so the capacity is roughly the same as '06, and it's wide enough to end up with a usable shoulder for headspace. The 284 Winchester is essentially the same case as the 7,5 but with a rebated rim.

How's that for wild, cat?

Pretty wild! But for your warped imagination, probably not that weird.

Perhaps a 45 Raptor or 450 Bushmaster necked down?

Get thee to a 416 Taylor and never look back.

quote:

Originally posted by Hasher:
Get thee to a 416 Taylor and never look back.

I think this is probably the best option. Sometimes headstamped brass is available, but regardless it's easy to make it from several other common calibers. Probably the most efficient of the mag-case options. Std. length action, easiest to assure it feeds well. Etc.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
400 whelen does all that with a .411 bullet

I'm surprised that can hit 2100fps with a 400.

I get you two guys mixed up because your names are the same, in case you have not noticed...
YES, the 400 Whelen easily gets 2100 with a 400. And uses easily available components. I build lots of them; .410 barrels, 30-06 brass, and .410/11 bullets.
How does it do it. Consider that all the old stuff mentioned, operates at low pressures. The 400 will be taken to 60K psi and over, with no problem because were aren't putting it in a rickety rifle.
Also, if you think the Whelen shoulder has no shoulder, you are not looking at the G&H version; it definitely has a .458 OD shoulder. I make the expander plugs for the brass, that go with the barrels I fit.
.416 in any rifle; no. That bore size should never have been developed.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
I get you two guys mixed up because your names are the same, in case you have not noticed...
YES, the 400 Whelen easily gets 2100 with a 400. And uses easily available components. I build lots of them; .410 barrels, 30-06 brass, and .410/11 bullets.
How does it do it. Consider that all the old stuff mentioned, operates at low pressures. The 400 will be taken to 60K psi and over, with no problem because were aren't putting it in a rickety rifle.
Also, if you think the Whelen shoulder has no shoulder, you are not looking at the G&H version; it definitely has a .458 OD shoulder. I make the expander plugs for the brass, that go with the barrels I fit.
.416 in any rifle; no. That bore size should never have been developed.

Sounds interesting. My goal is simply to duplicate the original ballistics of the 450/400 in a much more efficient design. The 416 diameter is something I view as preferable simply because it's easier to get quality bullets in that diameter.

When the 416 REm was birthed, I sold my 416 Taylor, and never looked back, I cannot imagine a better DG rifle than the 416 Rem based on my results in Africa over the years..

Yes I loved my 404 Jefferys and it was my favorite, but that was the nostalgic me at work, nothing more, even though ballistics were the same. The 416 REm had ammo in the stores and bullets available plus a couple of other positives..

My favorite doubles were my 450-400-3"s. but trust me, a 416 bore 400 gr. bullet at 2400 fps beats the hell out of 2100 fps regardless of some reports of yesteryear and nostalgic BS from some. but you can always load the 416 Rem down to 2100 if your amind too.

Last but not least, with me, your dealing with "cowboy logic", may be unacceptable to some.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
When the 416 REm was birthed, I sold my 416 Taylor, and never looked back, I cannot imagine a better DG rifle than the 416 Rem based on my results in Africa over the years..

Yes I loved my 404 Jefferys and it was my favorite, but that was the nostalgic me at work, nothing more, even though ballistics were the same. The 416 REm had ammo in the stores and bullets available plus a couple of other positives..

My favorite doubles were my 450-400-3"s. but trust me, a 416 bore 400 gr. bullet at 2400 fps beats the hell out of 2100 fps regardless of some reports of yesteryear and nostalgic BS from some. but you can always load the 416 Rem down to 2100 if your amind too.

Last but not least, with me, your dealing with "cowboy logic", may be unacceptable to some.

It's the cowboy way! I have to concede that the ability to buy a box of ammo in Africa somewhere if needed could be a big deal. Even the 416 Ruger could be hard to find. The Remington round is the most likely to be on a shelf somewhere.

dpcd, sent you PM

The 375 Ruger is the future of wildcatting being reincarnated!! but thats to be determined by those simple minded mad men who wallow in such trivia...

I have a 400 whelen that dpcd put together for me that will doo what is needed in a 40Cal.

However I also have a 416 Express (350RM necked up to 416) that Ken Waters has in his pet load book. It will get right close to 2100 with a 400 loaded at the top end. CH4D make the dies. I have a reamer you could use if interested.

416-9,3x62 or 416-370 Sako.

So if the .411 using .400 whelen has a shoulder, why couldn’t you modify it to take a .416 bullet and just put whatever taper would make it work? Assuming you want such a thing? I can’t think .005” (.0025” each side) is that big a change?

I’m no wildcatter. My .416 needs are covered by the .416 Rigby and .416 Remington… but I just don’t see why a .416 whelen isn’t technically possible then.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
416-9,3x62 or 416-370 Sako.

tisk tisk Boomie .. it's x64, which would, capacity wise, a 416 taylor

I would prefer an extra round down than a fatter case.

While the Taylor is the easy choice here, what would 416-284 Win do for you?

I know it wil work because back in the day I shot IHMSA and there was a goi with an XP-100 in 44-284

The last time I played wildcatter I built a 375/9.3x62 and it gave me 2500 give or take 50 fps depending on the load with a 300 gr bullet. Equaling my chosen 375 H&H hunting load for DG. sold it before hunting Africa, as I got the hots for 375 Ruger and I love that caliber! I do believe the 9.3x62 beats the 06 case for wildcatting for what its worth..Other than that wildcat I lost interest some 40 years ago. its costly and just changing the name of some commerially available caliber for the most part. but to each his own, I still like to read about it..