was thinking about my "475 boom stick" wildcat that i have not made yet...what is the fastest a hotloaded 470 500 gr bullet in the 110 case will go by your estimation? the sectional density would be .317 so that is good and you could shoot 275 grain x pistol bullets for deer all the way up to a custom 600 grains. the goal would be the old 470 nitro express velocity of 2150 with a good wide meplat in a solid or hardcast in the starline brass. thanks for your help

Depends greatly on how much pressure your action can take, and how long the barrel is. If your limited to black powder, figure 1300 fps, in a strong action operating at high pressures and reasonable length barrel, you could likely achieve your goal.

was thinking 22" barrel and modern smokeless powder with a 30 degree shoulder with the original length of case

was thinking 40,000 psi for winchester 1886 and 60,000 psi for the blr...so mid to high preasure...i'll do out to 26" if it will do 2150fps

You can figure it yourself quite easily with the Powley Computer. Digital versions exist on-line, including the one I wrote for use in browsers which is found here. There's nothing to download; the math is handled by your browser. The Powley works in CUP and tries to estimate a 44,000 CUP load, which is in the range you seek. I get about 2060 fps, and QuickLOAD gives the same guess for the same inputs (I used an approx. conversion from CUP to psi).

so 2060 @ 44,000?

i'll check it out (yes! a scotch/bourbon smiley!)

does anyone know the case volume of the 50-110?

case cap of the 50-110 is 108gr...

it will got down and up, necked, then improved.

it's roughly the same capacity as the capstick

1800-1900 max in a 86

okay, wait a second...
the 450 alaskan is basically the same thing, and has 97 gr... so it's "close"...
at 44kpsi (which is pretty STICKY) it can throw (quickload) a 500 at 1958...

would be hard pressed to hit 2k


Boomstick,
this is smaller than the AR rounds, and those can go in a blr

jeffe

boom stick, you can use Powley's Pressure Computer to estimate fps at any pressure level. It's surprisingly good, but it is a bit optimistic at 52,000 CUP and above, ie. .308 and belted mag. pressure levels. Entering 50,000 CUP into the Pressure will return you an estimate of about 2150 fps, your goal. From what I've seen in comparing such estimates to load book data, this 50,000 CUP performace estimate is closer to what a load book would show at 52,000 CUP, say 64,000 psi. This is too hot for the 1886, of course, but is reasonable for the BLR.

OK, I just went back and refined my inputs to the Powley, taking into account that the BLR can take .300 WM size cartridges. Using 110 gn (I didn't verify whether this is reasonable, but given about 89 for the .300, it seems high) and a 2.5" case, 3.3" cartridge, and a 1.25" 500 gn bullet, the Pressure Computer estimates 48,000 CUP for 2150 fps. From the Load Computer output, a compressed charge of 4895 might do the trick. I don't think I'd try 3031, but instead would look for a denser powder similar to 4895, perhaps 748?

Good luck with your project. You might want to check with Starline regarding the pressure their brass can accept. Drawing some brass for BP pressures is likely easier to do than drawing it for 52,000 CUP. It seems I remember reading they don't recommend the highest pressures in their rifle brass, but my memory could be off here.

Karl

jeffeosso...thanks for the case volume.

the case length is 2.4" on the 110
the 50 alaskan is 2.1

the 375 and 416 might be the best on this case (i am curious to know what a 300, 350 and 400 grain 416 bullet will do as well as the 200 to 300 gr. 375 bullets will do ) but i looooove the idea of a 475 and 458 on this case

dont worry jeffe...the a.r. is waaaaay superior!

i will want two of the a.r....just working on my own wildcat (bourbon)

asdf...thanks for the help

starline said 60,000 psi is good

asdf...i think the 458 would be the largest bullet you could do on the 300 w.m. case headspaced on the belt. can you imagine that

is that a wildcat?

if not we'll call it the 458 boom stick/asdf

as well as the 416 boom stick/asdf

i think it would be a tad better than the 416 taylor and 458 win mag would it not?

boom stick: Sorry, it slipped my mind that the .50-110 has a larger head diameter, so the volume would, of course, be larger.

There is already a .475 wildcat on the std. belted mag. head, namely the .470 Capstick, so you could indeed do it on the .300 WM length case. I also have a case capacity calculator you might be interested in. Follow the link at Case Volume from the Powley Computer page. It is, though, designed for rimmed cases; it would not do as well with belted mags.

You wondered about .416 and .458 variants. If you spend a half hour or two with the Powley Computers, you'll learn how to use them, and I think you'll find they give quite good estimates of the performance potential of any wildcat you can dream up. PM me if you have any questions regarding their use.

got some feedback from fred zeglin at z hat...he said the 375 on the 110 case would be too much for 1886 rifles unless you want a more moderate velocity...for the 1886 rifles the 470 458 ans 416 seem to be the better choices.

I'm getting 2230 fps with a 460 grain cast performance bullet out of my DRC 86 Winchester with a 22 inch barrel chambered in 450/110.
420 grain bullets are going 2430 fps and Tim Sundles reports 2150 with a 525 grain Beartooth bullet for this cartridge. All out of a 22 inch barrel. Recoil is fierce to say the least.

wow, that is awesome! what preasures are you running?...my design was to be the 50-110 case necked down. sounds like the 416/50-110 (416 boom stick) would be great!

working around the browning blr i guess the most you can get out of it in an old cart would be trimming the 50-140 case to 2.8 ish and stuffing it with a .510 bullet. that should get 2,200 fps with a 550 grain bullet



(just immagine a 2.8" case )

we will call this line of wildcats the boom stick magnum

50 b.s. mag all the way down to 30 b.s. mag.

there will be a 2.8 case length for 50-110 bullets and 45-70 bullets and 2.6 case length for regular rifle bullets from 510-308

just more of my wildcat madness



either that or doing jeffeosso's 470 a.r.

either way lots of fun. KABOOM!!!

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
wow, that is awesome! what preasures are you running?...my design was to be the 50-110 case necked down. sounds like the 416/50-110 (416 boom stick) would be great!

Can't say for sure on the pressures, but I'd guess it is close to 50K.

Cases can be pulled out with a fingernail. The loads I use are based on work done by Tim Sundles who owns Buffalo Bore Ammo.

more madness...

trim, blow out and neck where necessary...it would be expensive but trim the 470 nitro express to 2.1(45-70/50 alaskan length) 2.4" (50-110 case length) 2.6" (300 win mag length) or 2.8" for 50 alaskan or 45-70 bullets and call them nitro b.s. super short, nitro b.s. short, nitro b.s. and nitro b.s. mag

cases are cheaper and more avaliable than the 50-140 cases (3-4 bucks a case)



the 2.4" would be a good one for the 510 bullet from what i can see, just trim and stuff and might work in a win 1886


now i will check myself into an asylum...please excuse me.