I am faced with a 1916 Erfurt Mauser project. The original barrel is heavily pitted inside and out, obvious military heritage complete with shortened forend, steel butt plate, and swivel slot in the butt stock. I guess it goes without saying that the current chambering is 8x57mm.

Already owning numerous hunting rifles, most without a scope, I don't really need a another medium bore rifle with open sights. A lot of thought
and consideration has been expended, hours have gone into perusing numerous books with thousands of listings. I suppose the real problem is that
I don't have any real itches that need scratched at this point.

One thing that pops to mind is a nice dangerous game rifle due to the controlled round feeding available in the Mauser. Problem is, I have another
project underway which will a 1917 Enfield turned into a .458 Lott with dropped magazine, barrel band sights, extra recoil lug, express sights, and the rest of the works. Additionally, I have a Siamese Mauser chambered to .450 Alaskan that can serve as a North American thumper.

Another thing that comes to mind is a "truck gun" that I can loan out without qualms. Fair idea, but I have an SMLE in .303 Epps that serves that purpose. Although, having another truck gun with a scope is not a horrible concept.

So, what about a varmint rig (something I dont have)? Fine, but isn't it a bit strange to use a CRF action for something so mundane as prairie dogs? Even a colony doesn't pose much of a threat...Okay, so there is one possibility; a 22-250 or .220 Swift.

I have a Mauser Type B sporter reamed to 9.3x64mm, also serving as a close up thumper for North American game.

You may be wondering why this is in "Wildcats And Their Development"...fair question. The answer is that I am VERY open to a wildcat for this project,
and I am quite familiar with case modification, fire forming, casting bullets, chronographs, and load work up.

To help, here is a listing of cartridges which I shoot and load for:

22-250
25-06
257 Weatherby
6.5x57mm
270 Win
280 Remington
30-30
30-06
303 Epps
32 S&W
7.62x39
7.62x54R
8x57mm
348 Winchester
38 Special
358 Norma Mag
9.3x64mm
375 Winchestre
41 Magnum
444 Marlin
45 ACP
450 Alaskan

Thank you for reading and digesting and any opinions!

708, 308, 358

A fast twist deep throated 250-3000 24" thin sporting barrel. roger

416 Taylor...

35 whelen Imp

6.5-06 Imp

Thank you, gentlemen.

I have been tossing the 6.5-06 and 375 Whelen Improved back and forth...Heavy 26" barrel on the 6.5-06, or Douglas #3 on the 375.

375 Whelen imp, and post lots of pics of the process!

338/06 Imp.

Even though you said you have plenty of medium bores the 8x68S came to my first as great chambering.

Something to fit the bill as a small bore screamer would be the new 26 Nosler, but I could see doing a 6.5x68 as well. In fact the 6.5x68 would make a better small bore chambering in a Mauser, in my opinion.

I know that neither the 6.5x68 or the 8x68 are wildcats, but they are both unusual in North America and would still be natural picks for a Mauser project. I think one of these would be the route I would go or I would try to put together a matched set. This pair would be great for all North American game.

can't beat the 8x68S. Velocity like the 8mm Rem Mag, no belt, and Mark Cromwell at NECG informs me that they are now importing ammunition for it and it's little brother the 6,5x68S.

Those two chamberings are on my January 2015 list to have built.

Thanks gentlemen, I sincerely appreciate the input and feedback. I am still swaying back and forth between the .375 Whelen Improved and 6.5-06. I have also thought briefly about the 8mm\06 Improved and the .404 Jeffrey.

Have you considered the 38 Whelen over an "Improved" version?
I see you shoot the 348. Have you considered a wildcat for the 348? A 348 on a 57mm or 06 case would be interesting and not common. Expand 8 Mauser to an 8.8 (348) Mauser. Also a 347-08 is another easy 7-08 conversion. I like the long neck and extra power of a 348-270 though shooting those 200-250 grain slugs.

Rebarrel it for 45 ACP and have fun hunting dangerous rabbits.

Bruce

That's an older smallring action is it not?
May not want to stretch things out with 8x68 length things that would cut away metal.

Consider a 338 Gibbs. I was shocked at how efficient this wildcat is - my original 30-06 is now a "338 Win Mag". See...

http://forums.accuratereloadin...261063691#2261063691

The Gibbs posting you left sounds good. I had also considered the 8mm version, but cannot locate any cartridge drawings in my databases. I appreciate the photos in your linked post, they helped illustrate the differences.

358ELK, if you decide to go the 338 Gibbs route, I can help you find the reamer, dies, and a reasonably priced - yet outstanding - gunsmith who can do the conversion for you. Regards, AIU

308 Winchester or 338 Fed with an 18"-19" barrel. The 8x57mm magazine will let you load the heavy bullets or the long mono bullets. Low power scope. Truck gun, packing rifle, and PNW woods rifle. Where are the prairie dogs in Federal Way?

Grenadier: Thanks for the input. A scout rifle concept sounds fun, different, and worthwhile. It is also something I don't currently have.

Prairie dogs in FedWay? I think they drive little Honda Civics with fart can mufflers...

The 6.5~06 . 26" light varmint contour 1 in 8" twist stainless. Salt bath nitrides by Benchmark barrels. Boyd's Tacticool laminate stock . 20 moa rail . SWFA 3-15 SS scope. Notched leg pivoting bipod Southwest Precision adjustable check piece
Couple thousand rounds of brass and 5,000 140 gr bullets 6 bricks of large rifle primers. And 25-30 lbs of H4831SC powder.
And maybe a Muscle Brake.
There ya go. Or a 260 Rem AI 30° shoulder and you can long load your bullets. If you have extra $$$$ get a can for it. Or if you have lots of extra $$$$ a 3-18 IOR Valdada scope.

How about a 9.3x57 or a 9.5 [.375 bullets]x57.

Make it a light weight, slim and trim rifle with an 18 to 20" barrel with scope.
Maybe even with a full length mannlicher stock.

338 Edge. FL 375 RUM case necked down to 338.

I was going to suggest a 338/06 considering your list and criteria, but that Gibbs version would be a good one as well. The 308 or 8mm version of the Gibbs rounds also have a certain appeal to me. I think a plain vanilla 6.5/06 would be the bees knees if a laser beam trajectory with some really long, thin bullets is your thing. I am afraid that if I built one I would become too attached and cook the bbl within a month or two though..

quote:

Originally posted by 3584ELK:
Grenadier: Thanks for the input. A scout rifle concept sounds fun, different, and worthwhile. It is also something I don't currently have.

I still have three scope forward ( scout ) rifles ; two are in 7x57 and one in 8x57. They make great light weight walk around rifles. I wish ,however , that at a younger age I had built one in .250-3000 w/ a long throat , a 10 twist and a light weight 20" barrel.
With the shooting I do today recoil is becoming an important factor. If you are planning ahead for the aging event smaller cartridges might just be prudent. roger

How about a 338-06AI?

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
can't beat the 8x68S. Velocity like the 8mm Rem Mag, no belt, and Mark Cromwell at NECG informs me that they are now importing ammunition for it and it's little brother the 6,5x68S.

Those two chamberings are on my January 2015 list to have built.

Yes!!

The 8x68S is the best 8mm construction. And it is perfectly cotructed for the Mauser System.

Smooth feeding, power, accurate. My all day caliber...

200grain A-Frame and you can sell all other rifles...

quote:

I am faced with a 1916 Erfurt Mauser project

I am certain the original poster has already made his decision, but I would not convert a WW1 action to a modern 60 Kpsia round. German Arsenals had no expectations that these actions were going to be in use 100 years after manufacture or that they would be used with a round other than 8 X 57 mm. The metallurgy in these old actions were considered substandard by the 1930’s. And, modern high pressure rounds are operating above the proof pressures of these actions.

Rifle Magazine Issue 159 May 1995 Dear Editor pg 10
http://www.riflemagazine.com/m...PDF/ri159partial.pdf

Ludwig Olsen :

Mauser 98 actions produced by Mauser and DWM were proofed with two loads that produced approximately 1000 atmosphere greater pressure than normal factory rounds. That procedure was in accordance with the 1891 German proof law. Proof pressure for the Mauser 98 in 7 X57 was 4,050 atmospheres (57, 591 psi). Pressure of the normal 7 X 57 factory load with 11.2 gram bullet was given in Mauser’s 1908 patent boot as 3,050 atmosphere, or 43, 371 pounds.

While many Mausers in the 1908 Brazilian category will likely endure pressures considerably in excess of the 4,050 atmospheres proof loads, there might be some setback of the receiver locking shoulder with such high pressures

Kunhausen shows similar numbers in his book : “The Mauser Bolt Actions, A Shop Manual”

Rifle & Carbine 98: M98 Firearms of the German Army from 1898 to 1918 Dieter
Page 103.

M98 Mauser service rifles underwent a 2 round proof at 4,000 atm gas pressure, 1 atm = 14.6 psi, 4000 atm = 58, 784 psia.

Note: The lugs broke on 1:1000 rifles used by the Bavarian Army Corp!


Gun Digest 1975 has an excellent article, “A History of Proof Marks, Gun Proof in German” by Lee Kennett. “The problem of smokeless proof was posed in a dramatic way by the Model 1888 and it commercial derivates. In this particular case a solution was sought in the decree of 23 July 1893. This provided that such rifles be proved with a government smokeless powder known as the “4,000 atmosphere powder”, proof pressure was 4,000 metric atmospheres or 58,000 psia.

The 4000 atmosphere proof was standardized for the 1893 and continued after 1911.
The article indicates it was applied to the 1898. The 1939 German proof law called for proof at 130% of service load pressure. The maximum working pressure of the German 7.9 sS cartridge was 47kpsi, so presumably the proof pressure for a WW2 Kar98 would exceed that by the normal 30%, or 61k psi.

Unless someone can produce credible data as to the load limits of WW1 era 98 actions, and the design limits used by Paul Mauser, I am going to state that it is reasonable that the action was designed to support cartridges of 43, 371 psia with a case head diameter of 0.470”. WW2 era German ammunition was bumped up to a 47 Kpsia, which was probably fine for new Mausers with the improved metallurgy that occurred after WW1. Old Mauser receivers that had been converted or reissued, if they failed, so what, no one had expectations of an indefinite service life with old rifles.

I believe that a pressure standard for these rifles of 43, 371 lbs/ in ² is reasonable based on the SAAMI spec pressure of 35, 000 lbs/ in ². Obviously SAAMI researched this issue, probably determined original pressure standards, then used wise judgment about the age, uncertain previous history, unknown storage, usage, the known limited strength of period plain carbon steel actions, and as an industry, they were are not willing to accept the liability involved with selling new ammunition of a higher pressure.