Has anybody built a .308 / .375 Ruger ? If so, please tell us about the performance.

it would have the case capacuty if just smaller than a 300 webby

4D makes a reamer



Need 3 dies until you can have a custom made from fire formed cases

• 338 RCM full length
• 300 RCM neck die
• 375 Ruger full length

300 win mag, 30/375 Ruger, 375 Ruger



Haven't made mine yet, still on my to-do list

Would this be close to a 30 Newton, perhaps a tad bigger ?

quote:

Originally posted by kevan:
Would this be close to a 30 Newton, perhaps a tad bigger ?

\NO.. sweet agony, the guys thst keep LYING about a 375 ruger "is" a xxx newton ..

you can NOT take a newton case, and under anything short of crushing and restarting, make a safe to fire ruger case..

but you can swage down, or more likely scrape down, a ruger case to make the SMALLER newton cases.

hello, mcfly, the newton case is smaller than the ruger case.. (yeah, this annoys the @#$@#$ out of me)

quote:

the newton case is smaller than the ruger case.. (yeah, this annoys the @#$@#$ out of me)

Have some Mead. I think he was asking are they close to the same size not can he make a Newton from a Ruger.

Don't have the exact numberes but a 308/375 is going to be 10-11% larger than a newton.

I always viewed the Newton as closer to the 308Norma

Paul,
whitebuffalo (i think) kept saying it was the newton case.. which, in fact, its larger...

little early for mead.. but with my day already ...

but, hey, IT IS RAINING, thank god

I think the old western stamped newton cases I have measure .528" on the casehead

quote:

I have measure .528" on the casehead

QL shows the head as .522 Ammoguide has .525 and My western case measures .526.

It would be good to see some chamber castings of rifles made by The creator himself. The 25 cal Lazzeroni case predates the Ruger and is .532" spec but longer than the Ruger case. That would make a good case to wildcat a 338 or 300 ect.

I’ll preface my comments with this:
I do have a few friends who own original Model 1916 Newton rifles, as well as a couple who also own “Buffalo Newton” rifles, chambered in 30 Newton and 35 Newton. According to these individuals, if your dies are properly sized to the factory chamber…you only need to run the .375 Ruger case “fully” into your 30 Newton or 35 Newton full-length resize die, trim to length, and load away… They work perfect…with no need to swage down, scrape, or otherwise modify the .375/.416 Ruger case.

Facts are that the chamber specifications for the .375 Ruger and the 30/35 Newton are very close at the critical body base dimension – respectively 0.5336-inch and 0.5332-inch. So there you go. The Ruger chamber is 0.0004-inch larger in diameter at the body base than the 30/35 Newton chamber…factory chamber specification to factory chamber specification. The .375/.416 Ruger chamber is 0.06-inch longer and much less tapered than the Newton chamber…

Does anyone recollect reading any firearms and/or cartridge articles pre-1970 where the “writer” complained about the Newton rifles chambered for the 30/35 Newton cartridge having “sloppy” chambers and then denigrating the Newton factories manufacturing tolerances? Yes there were manufacturing tolerance issues with the Newton rifles….but I guess it never dawned on these “experts” that perhaps the Western cartridge’ brass was “undersize” in the cartridge’ body head area rather than the rifle chamber being “sloppily oversized” in the body head area?

Unfortunately these mental midgets touted Western’s undersized brass dimensions as being the true Newton’ cartridge dimensions - hence the ongoing recommendation to use 8x68mm brass (CIP’ maximum specification of 0.522-inch at the body base) to form Newton cartridges.

True Warning – Please Pay Attention: If you possess a rifle – other than a factory Newton rifle – chambered for the 30 Newton or 35 Newton cartridge, please have a chamber casting done to assure what the reamer dimensions were that the gunsmith used to chamber your rifle. Unfortunately many 30 Newton and 35 Newton finish chamber reamers were cut using the very undersized Western headstamped brass as the “true cartridge dimensions” used to generate finish reamer dimensions. Later production’ 30/35 Newton Western manufactured brass have been identified with a case body base diameter as small as 0.522-inch in diameter.

So there you go.

thanks Jim ..
first time i was told this in an acceptable, palapable, fashion, as i went with the case measurements. it appears there are TWO newtons, funcitonally?

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
thanks Jim ..
first time i was told this in an acceptable, palapable, fashion, as i went with the case measurements. it appears there are TWO newtons, funcitonally?

Hey Jeffe,

Unfortunately most of us have gone with measuring available factory loaded 30/35 Newton cartridges to obtain the cartridge specifications…whether it be original UMC brass, UMC-Newton brass, Newton brass, Speer brass, or Western brass. The Western brass was the most prolific and unfortunately the most wide ranging in rim diameters and case body head diameters. Heck I even made the mistake of generating the specifications for the 40 Newton using the “gun-scribe 35 Newton standard” and having it posted on AmmoGuide Interactive before I did my due diligence. Most unfortunately has been my inability to get the case dimensions data corrected.

But yes there are two Newton cartridge standards...1st the true WWI era Chas Newton’ 30/33/35/40 Newton cartridge design/manufacturing standards and 2nd the US "gunsmith & magazine writer" 30/35 Newton cartridge standard.

Chas Newton factory 30/33/35/40 Newton cartridge design/manufacturing standard:
Prior to Hornady’s manufacturing of the .375/.416 Ruger brass, the “best method” of creating 30/33/35/40 Newton brass for a Newton factory specification standard chamber was to use a belted magnum case - the .308/.358 Norma Mag are closest in overall case dimensions – full-length resize the case and trim to length. Then blow out the case body in front of the belt using (if memory serves me correctly) 2-3 case fire forming loads…or one full psi loading. Unfortunately there would always be a small thin line revealing the prior belt/case body demarcation but it didn’t shorten case life as Newton brass formed in this manner averaged 8-12 full power reloading before case replacement was required.

US "gunsmith & magazine writer" 30/35 Newton cartridge standard:
The “US gunsmith & magazine writer 30/35 Newton cartridge standard” brass was created by measuring the generally available Newton brass (typically Western brand brass and cartridges) rather than taking chamber castings (taken from a couple of different manufacturing years) from original Newton manufactured rifles.

There were two recommended methods of creating the “US gunsmith & magazine writer 30/35 Newton cartridge standard” brass. The 1st method was to turn down the belt of a belted magnum to 0.522-inch case body head diameter, full-length resize the case and trim to length. Then blow the remaining body out by fire forming the case…a couple of times. The 2nd method, unfortunately the “most recommended gun-scribe" solution, was to utilize 8x68S brass which has a case body/head diameter specification of 0.522-inch. Again full-length resize the brass and trim to length. However the rim of the 8x68S brass is only 0.511-inch which is well below the Newton factory bold face which is cut to about 0.534-inch to accommodate the larger factory rim specification diameter. But the “gun-scribes” had the perfect solution…just have your CRF bolt face opened up from it’s typical ’06 bolt face dimension to accommodate the 8x68S 0.511-inch rim diameter…and viola no more bolt face slop!...unfortunately this “most recommended method” prevented the potential use of Newton factory specification cartridges.

And hey…and I’m not even going to touch the next grand “US gunsmith & gun-scribe idea” of re-barreling to a “modern belted” cartridge or most worse of all…setting the factory 30/35 Newton barrel back and re-chambering to a relating “belted Newton” cartridge.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
... The 25 cal Lazzeroni case predates the Ruger and is .532" spec but longer than the Ruger case. That would make a good case to wildcat a 338 or 300 ect.

Boomy it would make a very good wildcat up to .488 caliber (with a shoulder). Certainly makes one wonder why so many cartridges were generated with case belts. It was somewhat understandable with the 300 H&H with its minimal shoulder angle and heavily tapered case…but even that could have been eliminated with a slightly steeper shoulder angle or a less heavily tapered case. The 375 H&H just by going beltless gains another 3 grs of powder capacity with no other changes to the case and some individuals go to quite a steep shoulder angle, short neck length, and/or very straight case to pick up another 3-6 grs of powder capacity. Oh well…it certainly gives wildcatters room to play!

quote:

Originally posted by kevan:
Would this be close to a 30 Newton, perhaps a tad bigger ?

I’m not quite sure what all the actual dimensions are for the 30 Newton but the drawing should be pretty close.

Sorry to those I annoyed, didn't mean to ruffle feathers.... only asked a question, thats all...

quote:

Originally posted by kevan:
Sorry to those I annoyed, didn't mean to ruffle feathers.... only asked a question, thats all...

If you annoyed someone on this forum, so be it! You have to go a long ways to annoy most regulars on this forum. We generally have pretty thick skin.

Kevan, welcome to the forum.

quote:

Originally posted by kevan:
Sorry to those I annoyed, didn't mean to ruffle feathers.... only asked a question, thats all...

you didn't annoy me.. apparently my lack of cORRECT info annoyed me