The regulars here saw my other thread, and how it might not play out. However, in doing some measurements today...I can across another idea.

What do you guys think of taking a basic mag case, shortened to 2.0" and necking it down to .429 for a COL of 2.360....to fit in a WSSM action? By my estimations, this would come out to a very hot 444 marlin, but in a bolt action rifle. Using Barnes .429 bullets (not sure if anything else would stand up to the possible velocity?) and allowing for higher pressures, I think I might have a shot at 2500-2800 fps roughly.

Ideas, thoughts, random babblings??

one of the gunmags writers took the 458 marlin, nacked to either .411 or .416, and richard mann+ charlie sisk took the wsm and necked to .416, noveske did it to .458, and MIchael did a 2.25 lengh .416, .458, and even a 500 BM...

Scott Mayer (who posts very frequently on my other board) did the 450 Marlin with .40 cal pistol bullets and equaled the 405 Win out of a lever gun, very cool wildcat

Hey MileHigh
I was just looking around and saw this, I did a .500 on a WSSM and it is pretty neat! I call it the 50 B&M Super Short. Take a 300 WSM or any WSM cut it to 1.65 inches and start shooting .500 caliber bullets! Good fun! However I think a 2 inch case might be a little long for a WSSM action? One of my first wildcats was a 2 inch case for .500 and it is too long for WSSM actions.

In addition to that, the velocity you would get with the 2 inch case in most cases you would out run your bullet performance. Better to go with a shorter case-1.65 or so, squeeze it down and I think you would have plenty of working velocity. In my 50 B&M Super Short I am shooting 375-385 gr bullets from 2050--2150 fps in a 16 inch Win M70 WSSM--400s at 2000--and 500s at 1700 fps. Take that same case and squeeze it to .429 you would probably outrun a 444 Marlin!

Hey Jeffe!
Michael

Michael

Thanks for the reply! I looked up your stuff on ammoguide and it is impressive! Now my idea, was using standard belted mag cases cut down, with .429 44 bullets, the cannelure is pretty far forward, and this is what would allow my overall length to possibly fit in the WSSM action, not actually using the wssm case.

The .458 American is basically the same thing, only with 458" bullets. It has been around for approximately 55 years (or more). I think you could get a pretty good idea of available ballistics by Googling the American, and then just interpolating to the next smaller common U.S. bore size.

MileHigh

I think that what you want to do will probably work fine. I would pay careful attention to the overall length of loaded rounds to make sure all fits in the magazine. I would also look hard at the 450 Marlin case--seems it would be easy to cut to length-trim-squeeze down and load! The only issue would be that double belt-being a bit different that standard belted brass!

I have often thought of taking the 50 Super Short down to .458 caliber. It would be limited in bullets as to overall length in the WSSM-but would be fun with lighter bullets like 300-400 gr and would at least equal anything a 45/70 could do I think. These little WSSM rifles make a very nice little gun--short-light-handy and packs a punch.

Michael

AC - I'm very familiar with the 458x2" American, great little cartridge. If you see my other post thats a few down from this one, my other wildcat project was something along those lines. This one is using 44mag pistol bullets, quite a bit of difference as far as weight and construction vs 458 bullets. I wouldn't be able to drive them to incredibly fast due to low SD most likely.

Michael -

My original wildcat idea from my other post, was started by using Marlins necked down just for the ease of already having proper length. However, basic belted mag brass can be had VERY cheap, and adding in the step of cutting them down IMO offsets that. I found 375 H&H for like 9$ for 20. 450 Marlin brass is quite a bit more, still not expensive though. Granted, its still a very valid idea and as I get closer to reamer time, I'll be making a pro/con list!

The WSSM's are indeed an interesting case to work with! Depending on the caliber, you're not too far behing 30-06 class capacity. I read soem articles on a 325 wssm and the 358...oh I forgot what the name is, but some guy is doing a 35 wssm at a certain case length to meet Indiana regulations.

I also thought the 458wssm would be neat, but I'd probably go with an improved case, maybe like the 458 Alpine....just shorter lol. A .411 would be very cool as well.

quote:

Originally posted by MileHighShooter:
I read soem articles on a 325 wssm and the 358...oh I forgot what the name is, but some guy is doing a 35 wssm at a certain case length to meet Indiana regulations.

The 358 BFG!

www.bfgcartridges.com

I'm trying to remember the guys name who built them...he stuck his name on the case, and Hornady carries the dies on request, but it wasn't BFG...I want to say it started with a C

The .429 2" is called a 429 Harvey Junior. It's been around for about 45-50 years. Harvey orginally used jacketed swaged bullets weighing 250-400 grains for his MAGALASKA series of 429 calibers. The only one I have seen in this caliber was done on a M70 Win. It will shoot a 300 gr bullet around 2200-2300fps in the bolt gun. Harvey also made the 429 from a necked down 458 Win and the big one from cylinder magnum brass. While not a Harvey caliber I have a sizing die for a 429/378Wby. Some of todays better pistol bullets may be suitable for the 2" version.

The 358 Grant uses a shortened WSM case.

Fireball - THanks! It was the Grant....don't know why I was thinking it began with a C lol

.429 - Thanks for the info, I'm going to see if I can't find any info on it. A 429/378 would be insane lol Now what WOULD be cool...is to cut down a 378 to like....1.85" and stuff some .500 S&W bullets in there. That would make one hell of a short rifle stomper.

mile high

Do you have any info on this 35 wssm. Reason I ask is cause the state of mississippi has changed its regulation on the primative weapons definition. It now calls a primative weapon any single shot rifle with a bullet diameter of over .35 . I have looked at the 35 whelen and other 35 cal rounds meant to be chambered in bolt rifles and they all seem like a lot of horse power for small southern whitetails. So I am thinking of putting together a rem 40x or xp 100 single shot together and this 35 wssm may be just the ticket.

I use the "mini chop saw" from harbour freight, and I added a "tailstock" which is a block of delrin plastic and a fine thread machine screw, to set length....

I use this on most of my cases, and works great from 2" to 2.7", and repeats pretty darn well.

great for chopping cases, though you STILL have to be careful, as it IS a chopsaw

zdrive -

ANY single shot? I know a lot of guys started picking up H&R Handi rifles in 45/70, they're great rifles and CHEAP. There is also the 35 Rem, which isn't too over powered, or our own Mr. Boom Stick's 358 gremlin, which is a 7.62x39 necked up to 358.

As for your question though, search for 35 Grant, this was the 35 wssm at a particular length to qualify as a "pistol" length cartridge in a rifle platform.

mile high

belive it or not the law does not designate what kind of firearm or its origin. As for the 35 rem I have a g2 thompson in that caliber that works well but falls apart after 150 yards. looking for a maximum 300 yard gun. will check your recomendation though.

thanks
Chad

quote:

Originally posted by MileHighShooter:
zdrive -

ANY single shot? I know a lot of guys started picking up H&R Handi rifles in 45/70, they're great rifles and CHEAP. There is also the 35 Rem, which isn't too over powered, or our own Mr. Boom Stick's 358 gremlin, which is a 7.62x39 necked up to 358.

As for your question though, search for 35 Grant, this was the 35 wssm at a particular length to qualify as a "pistol" length cartridge in a rifle platform.

Correction...Almost... the Gremlin is a necked up 6.5 Grendel. Better brass and capacity.

Thanks for the plug

Fireball has been up and down and back all over this. if you are not recoil shy the 35 wssm is a beauty but if you want 180's @ 2300+ double stacked in an ar15 the Gremlin rocks!

Fireball is hunting deer with it right now I think.

the Gremlin can do deer out to 300 yards with the 180's and knowing the trajectory but having a 150 yard zero and keeping it to 200 yards is going to be better imho

95% of deer are harvested under 150 yards so anything beyond 200 yards is just mental imho