Anyone played with this wildcat? Seems with the light 375cal projectiles available (220gr/235gr/250gr) it might be a handy "compact" cartridge especially for those sitting on a Stevens 200 and wondering what extra barrels to add .
Cheers...
Con

con,
with a rim it's called the 375 winchester, and VERY disappointing, even at high pressure

It is NOT the 375 Winchester. The 375 Winchester is based on the 30-30 and 38-55 case head size.

A .358 Winchester looks like 95% of the fun for only 10% of the pain ...

analog_peninsula

In my old Cartridges of the World book there is a 375-284. That pushed a 235 at 2550 ,this in a 6 1/2 lb Savage 99 !!!

In as much as this is the wildcat forum your idea makes perfect sense even in the light of the existing .358. I have a .375 X41 that is the equivalent in energy level to the .375 Win. It has the deffinite advantage of handling the heavier RN and pointed bullets, putting it into a far different class than the .375 Win.

The .375x51 or whatever you choose to call it will handle 15gr. more of a suitable powder than my .375x41. That than is a substantial energy increase over the moribound .375 Win.

Does it fill a nitch? Not hardly, but than how many of our wildcats really do?

I have 4 Stevens 200s. They are pretty light. If the barrel form would remain the same for the .375x51 that's an awfully big hole in that barrel reducing the weight farther. One or two full power loads on the bench would be about my limit. You might even have to start thinking another stock. roger

quote:

Originally posted by Marc:
It is NOT the 375 Winchester. The 375 Winchester is based on the 30-30 and 38-55 case head size.

okay.. then 356 winchester, which is a 307 necked to 358 bullets, and the 307 is a rimmed 308... and within 5% of case capacity, as the 375 is straight walled...

or, "close enough"

What is within 5% of what? Top 375 Win loads are about 40 grains. Top 358 Win loads are around 50 grains. When I went to school 10 grains over 40 grains is 25%.

Just my opinion but 25% seems significant.

Marc,
case capacity...
not laods.. afer all, the 38/55 is larger, but it's what, 20% less loads than then 375 winchester? loading charges dont' 'have anything to do with capacity... for example, the 416 weatherby is loaded to a far higher charger than the rigby, but nearly exactly the same case capacity.

jeffe

Guys,
Hmmm ... the 358Win I already have in a M70. Given it can achieve 2400fps with a Sierra 225gr, I would have thought the 375-08 should do similiar (2300fps?) with a 235gr Woodleigh or Speer. The Woodleigh is rated as low as 1900fps and is shorter than the .30cal 150gr PP, so I'm not going to run out of magazine space or intrude significantly on powder space and it should expand. Cheap plinking projectiles are available in locally produced 220gr FN projectiles (I already have a few hundred)... again they should be adequate for a pig. Sierra also has its 200gr FN and a 250gr that surely should achieve 2250fps as I can get that from my 358Win with a 250gr Woodleigh?

bartsche,
Yes the Stevens is light and I was looking at a heavier barrel contour and take abit out from the stock. It is flexy, so I'm considering reinforcing it and maybe adding a bit of weight at the same time. The original 308Win barrel will definately float after that . Perhaps a better idea would be a 338Federal but projectiles in .338 are $$$ over here which reduced range time. Have you done some barrel swaps yet on your Stevens rifles? I'm ordering a wrench through SharpShootersSupply this week ... that way I can practice taking off teh barrel and send the 'smith just the action to rebarrel ... even saves on postage
Cheers...
Con

Jeffe, Max loads reflect case capacity if they fill the case, which the loads I am talking about do. Assume you are using the same action for either cartridge. Then you can run both at the same pressure and case capacity definitely enters into the equation.

You need to crack a loading manual. The 38-55 and 375 Win are nearly identical. The 375 has heavier brass and a slightly shorter case length. Otherwise they are identical for all practical purposes.

Con, I remembered this article. As Jeffe pointed out the 356 Win is a rimmed 358 Win so you might find this interesting:
http://leverguns.com/articles/paco/375-356.htm

quote:

Originally posted by Con:
Guys,
bartsche,
Yes the Stevens is light and I was looking at a heavier barrel contour and take abit out from the stock. It is flexy, so I'm considering reinforcing it and maybe adding a bit of weight at the same time. The original 308Win barrel will definately float after that . Have you done some barrel swaps yet on your Stevens rifles? Con

I have the wrecnh, a barrel vise and an action wench. I thought I'd pla with what I've got for a while and than change over to my 250-3000 and 6.5x55 barrels. (Having troble wit wrench and play trouble and with?) roger

I have the wrecnh, a barrel vise and an action wench. I thought I'd pla with what I've got for a while and than change over to my 250-3000 and 6.5x55 barrels. (Having troble wit wrench and play trouble and with?) roger[/QUOTE]

Sorry ... you lost me. What difficulties are you having as I'm about to order my barrel nut wrench? 250-3000 ... now why didnt I think of that! Perfect smaller caliber!
Cheers...
Con

Years ago I read an article about a fellow that built an .375-08 on a Win 88, Snapps gun shop of Clair MI did the work but I can't remember where I saw the article. I was very intrested in it but found a Savage 99 in 375 Win. and couldn't see the advantage of building a wildcat at the time (1980ish).

I also have a Savage Mod 11 that I swap barrels on, right now only .223 Rem and .25-204 but I will be orderring a .473 bolt and add a 7mm-08 and .358 Win. to it. Fun gun to play with.

375win

quote:

Originally posted by Con:
(Having troble wit wrench and play trouble and with?) roger

Sorry ... you lost me. What difficulties are you having

My computer would not correctly spell wrench, play or trouble???????????? roger

Bartsche,
I hate those damn dyslexic keyboards! Sent cartridge drawings off to my 'smith today for the 375-08 (and 411/338) ... now it's a case of waiting to see whether a reamer can be ground or cobbled together. Necking a 358Win up seems to create a pretty long neck though ... maybe I should push it forward, sharpen the shoulder and call it the 375BH ("Boss Hog"). Should monster a piggie real nice .
Cheers...
Con

quote:

Originally posted by Con:
Bartsche,
I hate those damn dyslexic keyboards! Sent cartridge drawings off to my 'smith today for the 375-08 (and 411/338) ... now it's a case of waiting to see whether a reamer can be ground or cobbled together. Necking a 358Win up seems to create a pretty long neck though ... maybe I should push it forward, sharpen the shoulder and call it the 375BH ("Boss Hog"). Should monster a piggie real nice .
Cheers...
Con

Long necks are good necks. In fact if you go for the stdard length action (30-06) Go for a deep throat and seat the heavy bullets out and take advantage of the powder space. roger

????????maybe i'm missing something here, WHY a 375-08 ok I know, you got 2 million 308 cases and don't know what to do with them. Is it that you want a .375 cal in a short action? is that the real question, if so use a bigger case like the win. short mag case. that way you could always down load to 375-08 vels. The only thing that makes sense to me is a lead shooter, anyway good luck, and enjoy!!! bill439

Con, I saw this one listed in CH-4D's die sets a while back and was inspired to play with some numbers in QuickLoad. 2400 fps with 235 gn spitzers and 2200 with 270 gn RN seem feasible. The 9.5 Mannlicher with 270 gn at 2150 had a decent reputation.

If I recall, you were planning to try the 310 gn Woodleighs in a .358; any luck with this?

asdf,
Reading an article about the 9.5Mannlicher got me interested ... then I thought about all the great lighter .375 projectiles that seem to be becoming available. I've got a Stevens200 that I wanted to try the "switch-barrel" thing on, I moved my reloading gear out of the shed and into a proper room and found quite a few 308Win cases and .375cal 220gr Taipans that I'd forgotten I had . Karma seems to be telling me to give it a try.
The projectiles that most interest are the Woodleigh 235gr and the Sierra 250gr ... both should work at these velocities ... a 270gr RN at 2200fps would be a mega-bonus! Now its just upto the 'smith to see what he can do with the reamers he's got.
Cheers...
Con

good luck old boy. roger

quote:

Originally posted by Marc:
Jeffe, Max loads reflect case capacity if they fill the case,

Marc,
cool.. I'll stick with case capacity to measure a case, thanks... max loads "rated" loads aren't a primary measurement, IMNSHO

for example, if you load a 30-40 krag to the same pressure as a 308, it will outrun the 308... but it's a larger case, loaded lighter.

big cases, low pressure... good fun

On the case capacity, the link to the 375 bb says

quote:

[356winchester] 49 grains of water weight The 375 Win case is a 46 grain water weight holder

3 grains... add that you would get about 1 grain for necking the brass out to .375, it's 2 grains.. about 4%...

not much, and not enough difference, as you would release between 25 and 50% of the increased case capacity to veloctiy.

or between ONE and TWO percent in velocity, assuming same pressure...


in a 2250fps load, that goes to 2275 and 2295...

in my book, that's PII, unless there's a MAJOR case redesign (it get blown out hard enough to form a strong shoulder and neck)

so, for the cost of a reamer, headspace gages, and dies,($400) you get to pick up 45FPS over the 375 winchester

I' pass, thanks
http://leverguns.com/articles/paco/375-356.htm

jeffe

Intuitively one would have thought that a 308 case necked up to 375 is going to have a larger capacity than a 375 Win. Perhaps it has something to do with case wall thickness of 356 and 375 brass.

In any event we would be talking 2.55" OAL for a Win 94BB and at least 2.80" for the Stevens BA. What really matters is nett capacity available with a bullet seated to function through the action/magazine in question.

I have an older LH Savage 110 and on this model, by converting to a plunger ejector (vs blade type) and altering the mag length you can get to an OAL of around 3.1" which obviously makes quite a difference. If this is the same for the Stevens, you might consider basing the conversion on 9.5 X 57, improve case, retain longer neck for cast etc etc.

Joe

However you slice it, a 250 grs .375 bullet will achieve higher velocity from the 51mm case than a 250 grs .358 bullet at same preassure. 2500f/s with a 250 grs BarnesX / SAF would be good medicine.

411-308

more capacity/efficiency 300 gr @ 2350? use barnes x or xpb bullets

take it the easy way, use the 284Win case. Has '06 capacity plus/minus a couple grains and dies and reamers are available.

Rich

yeah this is much better but ya mightas well go with the wsm...

much better for 416, 411, 375, 358, and 338 just make it feed the extra round...

Boomy,
Looked at the 41-08 ... no hunting weight projectiles are available down here ... only light pistol stuff and then the 300gr Woodleigh/Hornady and the 400gr. I dont think the -08 case has the capacity to push a 300gr. A short-fat Woodleigh 235gr and a Sierra 250gr will do me fine ... and I admit its a wildcat that achieves nothing that cant be done with existing cartridges.
Now ... I've been corresponding with a gent that builds 44-08s (and 44-06s) and he's achieving 2300fps with a 240gr from a 21" barrelled short-actioned Rem700. I'm really not sure about the "headspace on the mouth" idea ... but it sure is interesting as it uses 444Marlin dies to be reloaded. I'd need to fork out for a custom reamer though.
Cheers...
Con

The claim of 49 grains water capacity for a 356 Win in the article is clearly a typo. Barnes Reloading Manual #1 says water capacity of the 358 Win is 57.56 grains and the 375 Win holds 48.6 grains. Also the max load for the 375 gets 1914 fps with a 255 grain bullet. The max load for the 358 gets 2415 fps with a 250 grain bullet. Thats a difference of 500 fps. As noted above the 375-08 would do better than the 358.

Marc,
okay, agreed.. a 375-08 would be better than a 375 winchester, if loaded to the each rounds spec pressure and length.


and, of course, a 376 steyr would clobber either, even if loaded to 2.8" to fit in a short magizine...

at 55kpsi, 255gr wincehster, 22" barrel
2561 fps


63kpsi (pressure you have to run to max a 358)
2661fps...

let the 376 be 3.15 (as designed), it's closer to 2800fps than the 2400 of the 358win.

jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by Con:
Boomy,
Looked at the 41-08 ... no hunting weight projectiles are available down here ... only light pistol stuff and then the 300gr Woodleigh/Hornady and the 400gr. I dont think the -08 case has the capacity to push a 300gr. A short-fat Woodleigh 235gr and a Sierra 250gr will do me fine ... and I admit its a wildcat that achieves nothing that cant be done with existing cartridges.
Now ... I've been corresponding with a gent that builds 44-08s (and 44-06s) and he's achieving 2300fps with a 240gr from a 21" barrelled short-actioned Rem700. I'm really not sure about the "headspace on the mouth" idea ... but it sure is interesting as it uses 444Marlin dies to be reloaded. I'd need to fork out for a custom reamer though.
Cheers...
Con

what about cheap custom cast??? or swage yer own on a custom die???

good luck either way

Boomer & Jeffe,

reference the 284 Winchester case again. Just ran some ball powder into one, and 64gr of BL-C2 fits in to the neck bottom. There is much actual loading data for the 284 necked all the way up to .400 caliber. The Savage 99 with a 284 spool will give you the same velocities for caliber as the 30-06 case. It uses the 30-06 bolthead, the cases will feed from a converted 243Win magazine, less one capacity and they are easy brass to come by. Norma even makes it. It must work, the Marines, who are very fussy about their long range shooting are shooting a 6.5-284 at Perry the past couple years, and Norma and Black Hills Ammunition load it.
For anyone that would like a short action boltgun, or a Savage 99 with some serious poop, any 284-based wildcat is the best way to go.

Rich

JD Jones already makes one, its called the .375 JRS.

quote:

I dont think the -08 case has the capacity to push a 300gr

Con, software predicts 2200 fps might be possible in 24", and that's all Woodleigh rates that bullet for (it's meant for the .405 Win). Call it the .405 Rimless. The 8x57 case would provide a bit of margin even for the 2.8" short actions.

quote:

Originally posted by asdf:

quote:

I dont think the -08 case has the capacity to push a 300gr

Con, software predicts 2200 fps might be possible in 24", and that's all Woodleigh rates that bullet for (it's meant for the .405 Win). Call it the .405 Rimless. The 8x57 case would provide a bit of margin even for the 2.8" short actions.

The 6mm Remington when loaded to SA length is a very different cartridge from one that is throated for a long (standard) action. I would expect that the difference in the x57 case and the 08 case would be lost if loaded to 2.800 OAL.

Guys,
Project is a go! Spoke to my 'smith and he has no problems chambering the 375-08. Project will involve a Remington Sportsman 78 action being matched to a Rem take-off 375H&H barrel that will be cut and shortened, rethreaded and rechambered. Added bonus is the donor barrel is magna-ported Original rifle sights will be refitted, a tupperware ADL stock added and maybe some BDL bottom metal I have ... but that's getting a bit fancy.
Now ... anyone have a suggestion on how to neck size a 375-08 when you dont have 375-08 dies, and want to avoid a custom die set for now????
Cheers...
Con

quote:

Added bonus is the donor barrel is magna-ported

good thing yer not deaf or you would not know when you pulled the trigger

quote:

Originally posted by Con:
Added bonus is the donor barrel is magna-ported
[QUOTE]

Man, that porting needs to be chopped off!!!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Con:
Now ... anyone have a suggestion on how to neck size a 375-08 when you dont have 375-08 dies, and want to avoid a custom die set for now????
Cheers...
Con

Get a used .375H&H dieset at a gunshow or pawn-shop, and cut it in two. There ye go!

Rick B, the shoulder on the x57 cases is farther forward, that's why you can get more powder in for the same COL. I admit you might have to blow the shoulder out a bit, though, since the x57 shoulder is a bit narrower than on the .308 family, but, hey, it's a wildcat, so that's easy.

Con, 375-308 dies are available from CH-4D, but at U$72 it does cost more than standard chamberings.