I see that Midway has the scoped Gamo Whispers on sale for $210. Is this a good air rifle? I am looking to replace my old RWS. I want a quiet, accurate, and powerful air gun to shoot squirrels and chipmunks with. What air rifle would you recommend? I would think you can get an excellent gun for under $400 these days. Am I right?

quote:

Originally posted by JohnnyB:
I see that Midway has the scoped Gamo Whispers on sale for $210. Is this a good air rifle? I am looking to replace my old RWS. I want a quiet, accurate, and powerful air gun to shoot squirrels and chipmunks with. What air rifle would you recommend? I would think you can get an excellent gun for under $400 these days. Am I right?

I've got one as well as a Shadow 1000 and a much more expensive Beeman I've owned for more or less 20+ years. You get what you pay for, but the Whisper is quiet and it's reasonably accurate for it's price range. It's better than a daisy or a crossbearer, and equal to above most of the chinamen on the market. The scope it comes with is more or less garbage, more more than less but you only paid 200 bucks for the whole kit and I just spent US300 on a used 2-7 Leupold...

Referencing my earlier post...

The stock Whisper "fiber optic fire sights" are better than the scope they mail you with it by a magnitude of a more than a thousand. Stick with the nice factory irons unless you are going to pony up for a real scope. You will be happier with having your pellets hit where you point them. Factory irons aren't bad.

At the moment I'm only recommending the German WEIHRAUCH guns. (Or Beeman equivalents.)

They seem to be the only company just now, that you can buy a mid- price Airgun from and expect it to work well, out of the box.

The Gamo/BSAs can be pretty nasty, if you get a bad one.

Sounds like I will not be happy with a Gamo Whisper. I do want a good gun and good scope. I do not like inferior products. I guess I will keep looking. I have never heard of the Weihrauch guns; are they the Beeman equivalents? Maybe I should look at the Beeman too.

quote:

Originally posted by JohnnyB:
Sounds like I will not be happy with a Gamo Whisper. I do want a good gun and good scope. I do not like inferior products. I guess I will keep looking. I have never heard of the Weihrauch guns; are they the Beeman equivalents? Maybe I should look at the Beeman too.

The Shadow 1000 GAMO was GIVEN to me free becuase it needed a minor amount of work and parts. That says something about them.

Weihrauch manufactures pretty good air rifles and when sold in America are sold under the Beeman name.

Compare this page and this page and you can see which Beemans are Weihrauch guns.

If you want to drill chipmunks in the head, you aren't buying anything for 2 bills that's going to do it, most especially that includes the scope. Quality doesn't come cheap.

My Beeman is really a 20+ year old Weihrauch I've owned since new. Says the magic words, "MADE IN WEST GERMANY" on the barrel. As I recall, I gave around 400-500US dollars at the time for it and it still keeps them in the bull and executes varmints handily many many many tins of pellets later.



I just found this equivalence table comparing manufacturer to names "sold under" in the USA. Happy Shooting.

Some useful info there.

I don't see the HW 57 underlever on the US sites.

A bought £250 here and a good mid-price gun. It may not be as great as the old German guns but it's still pretty good.

Tom....am I correct in using these tables? I would look at the Beeman table find a gun I am interested in at the price that I can afford, i.e. the Beeman R1 @ $600: look at the Equivalency Table and find that it is equivalent or is a Weihrauch HW80, then look at the Weihrauch table to review this infor. and decide or use this sequence in the opposite direction. Then buy the Beeman equivalent product as they are sold as Weihrauch guns under the Beeman name in the USA. Sounds like if I want a quality air rifle, I may need to spend $600 plus a scope at about $300. Not any cheaper than a good quality firearm.

quote:

Originally posted by JohnnyB:
Tom....am I correct in using these tables? I would look at the Beeman table find a gun I am interested in at the price that I can afford, i.e. the Beeman R1 @ $600: look at the Equivalency Table and find that it is equivalent or is a Weihrauch HW80, then look at the Weihrauch table to review this infor. and decide or use this sequence in the opposite direction. Then buy the Beeman equivalent product as they are sold as Weihrauch guns under the Beeman name in the USA. Sounds like if I want a quality air rifle, I may need to spend $600 plus a scope at about $300. Not any cheaper than a good quality firearm.

Quality doesn't come cheap and my R10 I bought in 87 or 88 can still head shoot a chipmunk.

Your budget is your budget, but once you get past chinese and spanish garbage, you get what you pay for.

If it's for pest control, get a .22LR, decent optics, and a can for it if you live in a "free" state.

Like grand dad said "Aint never gonna get anything you actually wanted in this life for free or even on the cheap."

Best regards and happy shooting.

Whisper ain't bad for plinking if you don't expect the pellets to hit the same place every time. You could buy a really nice .222 or .223 for varmint control for about the same money as you will spend on a good air raffle but pellets are cheaper. Depends what you want.

Start looking at national match and Olympic air rifles and you prolly don't have a truck you could mortgage to buy one...Just saying.

My "infamous" plains game head shot that I got crucified for on the boards here was done with a BRNO .223 that was worth about 1/4 of the optics mounted on it.

Tom

For what it's worth, the Beeman-Weihrauch relationship got started as it is now because Beeman was an importer of quality adult air guns.

Beeman decided to design their own air rifle, the R1 (Beeman Rifle 1). They worked with Weihrauch to produce them. Since then, some designs have been Weihrauch and some have been Beeman. There's models that originated in both directions, but manufacturing of the high end Beeman guns has always been done by Weihrauch.

Sorta like the fact that FN/Belgians produced a sizable chunk of everything JM Browning designed but also produced some things based off his designs and he incorporated some of their ideas in his, most likely.

Happy shooting.

Tom...I'm all for the quality product. I don't want to spend money on something I will not be happy with. I would rather pay more and be happy. Just did not know what a good air gun cost. Now I have an idea. How far away can you shoot a chipmunk in the head with an air gun? I want accuracy, but now I need to know the range of this accuracy. Will they shoot one inch 5 shot groups to what distance? The air guns I am familiar with shoot 2" groups to 20 yards at most. Past 20 yards, you need to move closer.

quote:

Originally posted by JohnnyB:
I want accuracy, but now I need to know the range of this accuracy. Will they shoot one inch 5 shot groups to what distance? The air guns I am familiar with shoot 2" groups to 20 yards at most. Past 20 yards, you need to move closer.

My antique R-10 as well as my dad's newish R-1 will do 1-2" 5 shot groups, depending on pellet choice, at 50 yards from a machine rest. I can head shoot a squirrel or a rabbit with either at 20 yards easily.

Whisper with a decent scope on it will do ~2" at 20.

With a bit of effort to learn and a good spring gun. You should have no problem getting Squirrels at 35 or so yards, but springers are not easy to get that good with, they need good form and lots of practice. Pellets that really fit the gun and a scope that will stand up to the recoil.
But once you are sorted out, they are great fun.

If you want to head shoot Rodents at 60y or more think of going for a Precharged gun.
A friend of mine hits EVERY Rat he shoots at, in the head at 270 feet. With an old BSA Spitfire Precharged .22 16gr pellets doing 950fps.
Even with the 800fps .177s we use, we shoot Rabbits at 45 to 50 yards and hardy any ever get away.
If somebody misses one they will get loads of stick for it.

quote:

Originally posted by The Specialist:
With a bit of effort to learn and a good spring gun. You should have no problem getting Squirrels at 35 or so yards, but springers are not easy to get that good with, they need good form and lots of practice. Pellets that really fit the gun and a scope that will stand up to the recoil.
But once you are sorted out, they are great fun.

If you want to head shoot Rodents at 60y or more think of going for a Precharged gun.
A friend of mine hits EVERY Rat he shoots at, in the head at 270 feet. With an old BSA Spitfire Precharged .22 16gr pellets doing 950fps.
Even with the 800fps .177s we use, we shoot Rabbits at 45 to 50 yards and hardy any ever get away.
If somebody misses one they will get loads of stick for it.

Seffrican friend of mine brought along a Weihrauch HW100 when we met up on a Transvaal hunt. Was excellent for headshooting monkeys and francolin birds. Silenced too. Monkeys had no idea what was hitting them. One would fall out of the tree dead and the others would look about wondering why their buddy fell out of the tree until it was their turns to fall out of the tree.

Shame that proper silencers for pre-charged air rifles are regulated like normal firearm silencers in the USA. NFA tax stamp, law enforcement sign off, and all that. About the same hassle as buying a machinegun.

There are a fair number of integral sleeved barrel silencers out now, would that help get around the Regulations.

But it would be worth the hassle anyway.
A Talon I use a bit, sounds like a .300 magnum with no silencer, with it on, it just makes a dull thump.

quote:

Originally posted by The Specialist:
There are a fair number of integral sleeved barrel silencers out now, would that help get around the Regulations.

But it would be worth the hassle anyway.
A Talon I use a bit, sounds like a .300 magnum with no silencer, with it on, it just makes a dull thump.

They have prosecuted people for illegal possession of PAINTBALL silencers in the USA if that answers your question. In tomland, tom took a vote and decided if he was gonna bother with the paperwork for a can it was time to build a .300 Whisper.

That's so funny, over here it's almost getting unusual to see anyone hunting without a silencer.
But you can't even have a semi auto centerfire, only rimfires can be autoloading. As I'm so bad at following rules and never do paperwork I don't even have any firearms hardly at all just now. Every time I take up a new shooting discipline the scum either ban it or restrict it so much it kills it off.
A while back I told some little bas**rd from the home office, if they ban any more of my guns I'll start building AK 47s and .50 cal BMGs and giving them away to any crack head or Yardie who wants one.
The guy nearly had a stroke, he wanted me arrested and all sorts.

Thanks guys for the input on air rifles. Alot to think about.

Specialist....So in England you can own and use a firearm with a silencer? or is it just air guns that you can own and put silencers on? Maybe it is handguns that are illegal in England? Could you please clarify this or is it too complicated to address? Thanks again for the help.

related video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gy86MI3mmBc&feature=related

Air rifles under 12 foot pounds ME and air pistols under 6fpe are not registered.

NO airpistols over 6 fpe are allowed.

All air rifles over 12 fpe and ALL Firearms need to be Registered.
And you are restricted on how much and the type of ammo you'll be allowed to buy and keep.

All firearms need to be kept in a safe and only used where your "Firearms Officer" will allow.
Unless you are given permission to "Approve" land for shooting yourself.
The longer you are at it, generally the more they will let you do.

No handguns are allowed AT ALL.

When you register a gun you can add a silencer for it to your license. That's usually no problem.

You can just buy and fit ANY silencer to a sub 12 fpe air gun. There are no restrictions on buying a silencer, just on what you fit it to.

There are so many rules here on shooting, that change so often, even very few Firearms Officers can keep up.

They just said you can't even try a 14 round Practical Shotgun at a club. You have to use a 3 shot semi to try it out.

And put more restrictions on gun clubs.

Also stopped airgun sales by mail order, you now need to buy any airgun in person.

They just keep chipping away till some aspect of the sport dies off. Then there on to the next.
It really sucks.

Specialist....So you can go into a gun shop, buy a center fire rifle with a silencer, register them and take it home? Then go hunting with it, shooting deer or stag, if you get appoval from the owner of the property you are hunting on? You can go buy a shotgun and go bird hunting? Nobody can have a handgun?

quote:

Originally posted by The Specialist:
That's so funny, over here it's almost getting unusual to see anyone hunting without a silencer.
But you can't even have a semi auto centerfire, only rimfires can be autoloading. As I'm so bad at following rules and never do paperwork I don't even have any firearms hardly at all just now. Every time I take up a new shooting discipline the scum either ban it or restrict it so much it kills it off.
A while back I told some little bas**rd from the home office, if they ban any more of my guns I'll start building AK 47s and .50 cal BMGs and giving them away to any crack head or Yardie who wants one.
The guy nearly had a stroke, he wanted me arrested and all sorts.

What about fervent islamofascists? You shan't leave them out of the giveaway, shall you?!?!?!?!?!?


I like Texas------

Traffic stop:
Me: What can I do for you Sir? Just to let you know, I have loaded handguns and long arms in the truck with me. Shall we need to do anything about this to keep us both safe?"

Officer: "Licenses and proof of insurance, please."

(hand over documents)

Officer returning with warning ticket and licenses, et al.: "You were doing seven over the limit and you do it all the time, you need to slow 'er down a bit, OK?"

Me: "Thank you sir and have a nice day."

Officer: "Keep 'er a tad slower and shiny side up so I don't have to write you a real ticket next time. Gonna go out for opening day this year on whitetails or wait till culling time?"

Your RWS is a far better rifle then any gamo. M-34's are what I recomend to those on a budget or a Beeman R-9 if one wants better fit and finish.
If your RWS is in serviceable condition stick with it. Its a great rifle. If you want better think about a rebuild with a Maccari spring kit. you'll be amazed with the results. You won't get more power (you don't need more power) but smoothness and a better firing cycle with no vibration. Accuracy will improve as the rifle will be easier to shoot.

James Maccari's
Air Rifle Headquaters

quote:

Originally posted by Bill C.:
Your RWS is a far better rifle then any gamo. M-34's are what I recomend to those on a budget or a Beeman R-9 if one wants better fit and finish.
If your RWS is in serviceable condition stick with it. Its a great rifle. If you want better think about a rebuild with a Maccari spring kit. you'll be amazed with the results. You won't get more power (you don't need more power) but smoothness and a better firing cycle with no vibration. Accuracy will improve as the rifle will be easier to shoot.

James Maccari's
Air Rifle Headquaters

I just tell people they'll be happier saving for a couple more months and buying a nice rifle. Delays gratification but you are happier in the long run.

I agree with getting good quality. I would take a look at 5MM (.20 cal)to me it's the best of both worlds between the .17's and the .22's. For scope you cant beat a Leupold compact 3x-9x with EFR. Extended Focus Range---it will focus down to the range you need on an airgun.

----------------------------------------
"So you can go into a gun shop, buy a center fire rifle with a silencer, register them and take it home?"
--------------------------------------------

not a chance

You need to be pre approved by the Police and already have your gun license.

to get that ..

You'll need a reason for the gun like hunting or club shooting. And 2 references and a Doctors note saying your not a nutter or have any other problem.
ANY police record will be a problem.

Have a gun safe, that will be inspected.
Probably a house alarm as well and window locks etc.
They may make you start with a .22 or take a course or whatever the Firearms officer wants you to do.

One fool of a female officer refused a friend the "Military" 7.62mm but then approved his request for a .308 to hunt Deer.

Firearms officers who do the licenses are civilians hired by the Police. They don't usually like to hire anyone with any interest in guns. As they may be too helpful.

A shotgun license for birding is a bit easier to get.

No handguns in private ownership at all.
The dickheads said they never meant to ban Single shot Olympic type target pistols, but they never unbanned them.

I like the Texas method. Go to gun shop. Give them your driver's license and concealed permit. Fill out a form. Pay the man. Take the firearm home. No concealed permit (which you got by way of having a full background check done) and they have to call the FBI and ask if you're a criminal nutter. That usually takes 5 minutes or less.

Silencers are more paperwork and a tax stamp.

My local shop has a MG-42, a G.E. minigun with tripod mount, and a quad M2 Browning .50 cal set-up on an anti-aircraft trailer mount currently on offer, amongst the normal things like rifles, handguns, fishing tackle, and normal as well as fine sporting shotguns.

The neat stuff and high endy shotguns and H&H rifles, etc. have their own separate room but anybody is welcome to browse and buy if you can afford them.

quote:

a quad M2 Browning .50 cal set-up

You suppose I could get that sent over, with some "Customs Friendly" paperwork?
Gaffer tape some airtanks, and a few bits of hose on it ...
Mite pass for a steam cleaner?

quote:

Originally posted by The Specialist:

quote:

a quad M2 Browning .50 cal set-up

You suppose I could get that sent over, with some "Customs Friendly" paperwork?
Gaffer tape some airtanks, and a few bits of hose on it ...
Mite pass for a steam cleaner?

It will definitely "clean a house" though it might leave some stains on the carpeting.

I've heard that some people have used helicopters in paintball maneuvering. One can't be too careful!

A friend of mine once imported an Alfa Romeo racing car as "Agricultural Equipment" to the US as the US Department of Transportation wouldn't consider it a car due to it's lack of crash testing and such...anything is possible if you're creative?