I understand . . . the truth is sometimes tough to face. Always easier to just blame someone else for your own failings.

I am probably hunted more buffalo than most people here.

And I have missed my share.

I have wounded my share.

Anyone who hunts WILL miss.

Was Mike the only one who missed a buffalo hunting with your organization?

Please don't tell me it is.

Because if you do, I will tell you I don't believe you!

Lot’s of us miss. Not many of us quit and whine about it later trying to blame someone else. That’s shameful.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Sorry, just calling a spade a spade. I told Buzz when he booked your hunt that there was a good chance he would likely come to regret it . . . sadly I was correct. Some clients just need to be avoided.

I have hunted with Mike and Lindy and would do so again in a heartbeat. Mike is an excellent shot and very entertaining. I believe if you are paying top dollar for a hunt then your priority animal should be in abundance.

It was a good news letter but flawed by the written content.

This has become the saddest of posts. Here we have a number of people, all deserving the greatest respect attacking each other over one failed hunt. I've had my share of those and if you want a peaceful and happy life you just have to be prepared to put themm behind you and look forward to the next hunt.
Mike, you had a failed hunt with spooky buffalo at a difficult time of year in a hard concession. There is nothing wrong with saying enough is enough and going off with your wife to enjoy doing something else, but you have to admit that everyone else who hunted in Dande East that season got their buff.
Myles, I am truly sorry you feel you can't post anymore. Don't let one unhappy client ruin things for you. Unhappy clients are inevitable in any business. Get over it!
Saeed, you have been running a great forum for a long time. Sometimes you must try to conciliate and bring people together instead of adding wood to the fire. The issue of pre-payment of fees on one of CMS's comncessions has no bearing on this particular forum. You have made your opinion clear enough before.
For God's. Allah's or Jehovah's sake lets all stick together to preserve the sport we all love instead of tearing each other apart and giving a gift to the antis.
Merry Christmas and good will to all men!

quote:

Originally posted by the Pom:
This has become the saddest of posts. Here we have a number of people, all deserving the greatest respect attacking each other over one failed hunt. I've had my share of those and if you want a peaceful and happy life you just have to be prepared to put themm behind you and look forward to the next hunt.
Mike, you had a failed hunt with spooky buffalo at a difficult time of year in a hard concession. There is nothing wrong with saying enough is enough and going off with your wife to enjoy doing something else, but you have to admit that everyone else who hunted in Dande East that season got their buff.
Myles, I am truly sorry you feel you can't post anymore. Don't let one unhappy client ruin things for you. Unhappy clients are inevitable in any business. Get over it!
Saeed, you have been running a great forum for a long time. Sometimes you must try to conciliate and bring people together instead of adding wood to the fire. The issue of pre-payment of fees on one of CMS's comncessions has no bearing on this particular forum. You have made your opinion clear enough before.
For God's. Allah's or Jehovah's sake lets all stick together to preserve the sport we all love instead of tearing each other apart and giving a gift to the antis.
Merry Christmas and good will to all men!

Actually, the proverbial shit hit the fan when they decided to charge clients non refundable trophy fees.

This has every bearing on what has developed.

I know both Buzz and Mike personally, and I have the highest respect for both of them.

But the idea of charging clients, in advance, of trophy fees that are not refundable is just obscene to me.

It is not acceptable under any circumstances.

Yes, we do need to stick together, but on good behavior.

We should never turn a blind eye when we see something which is just plain WRONG!

Someone comes up with an utterly stupid idea, others will voice their objections to it, and rightly so.

CMC is in the business of conducting hunting safaris.

They had a very good reputation, and I hope someone from them will at least try to repair the serious damage that has been caused.

And non on AR caused this damage.

It was self inflicted.

And I will repeat, it really needs someone from them to own up to it.

There is a lot I could say, but for the time being I am going to wait and see what reaction comes.

I have absolute no wish to see their reputation tarnished.

But, as the old saying goes, the proof in the pudding is in the eating.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by the Pom:
This has become the saddest of posts. Here we have a number of people, all deserving the greatest respect attacking each other over one failed hunt. I've had my share of those and if you want a peaceful and happy life you just have to be prepared to put themm behind you and look forward to the next hunt.
Mike, you had a failed hunt with spooky buffalo at a difficult time of year in a hard concession. There is nothing wrong with saying enough is enough and going off with your wife to enjoy doing something else, but you have to admit that everyone else who hunted in Dande East that season got their buff.
Myles, I am truly sorry you feel you can't post anymore. Don't let one unhappy client ruin things for you. Unhappy clients are inevitable in any business. Get over it!
Saeed, you have been running a great forum for a long time. Sometimes you must try to conciliate and bring people together instead of adding wood to the fire. The issue of pre-payment of fees on one of CMS's comncessions has no bearing on this particular forum. You have made your opinion clear enough before.
For God's. Allah's or Jehovah's sake lets all stick together to preserve the sport we all love instead of tearing each other apart and giving a gift to the antis.
Merry Christmas and good will to all men!

Actually, the proverbial shit hit the fan when they decided to charge clients non refundable trophy fees.

This has every bearing on what has developed.

I know both Buzz and Mike personally, and I have the highest respect for both of them.

But the idea of charging clients, in advance, of trophy fees that are not refundable is just obscene to me.

It is not acceptable under any circumstances.

Yes, we do need to stick together, but on good behavior.

We should never turn a blind eye when we see something which is just plain WRONG!

Someone comes up with an utterly stupid idea, others will voice their objections to it, and rightly so.

CMC is in the business of conducting hunting safaris.

They had a very good reputation, and I hope someone from them will at least try to repair the serious damage that has been caused.

And non on AR caused this damage.

It was self inflicted.

And I will repeat, it really needs someone from them to own up to it.

There is a lot I could say, but for the time being I am going to wait and see what reaction comes.

I have absolute no wish to see their reputation tarnished.

But, as the old saying goes, the proof in the pudding is in the eating.

It seems that people have forgotten that CMS changed there policy with regard to the pre payment of trophy fees after the discussion here on AR. I hunted Nyakasanga just a few months ago. NO prepayment.
It was a fantastic hunt and I will post a hunt report whwn I get the time.

Good Hunting

Carl Frederik

quote:

Originally posted by Carl Frederik Nagell:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by the Pom:
This has become the saddest of posts. Here we have a number of people, all deserving the greatest respect attacking each other over one failed hunt. I've had my share of those and if you want a peaceful and happy life you just have to be prepared to put themm behind you and look forward to the next hunt.
Mike, you had a failed hunt with spooky buffalo at a difficult time of year in a hard concession. There is nothing wrong with saying enough is enough and going off with your wife to enjoy doing something else, but you have to admit that everyone else who hunted in Dande East that season got their buff.
Myles, I am truly sorry you feel you can't post anymore. Don't let one unhappy client ruin things for you. Unhappy clients are inevitable in any business. Get over it!
Saeed, you have been running a great forum for a long time. Sometimes you must try to conciliate and bring people together instead of adding wood to the fire. The issue of pre-payment of fees on one of CMS's comncessions has no bearing on this particular forum. You have made your opinion clear enough before.
For God's. Allah's or Jehovah's sake lets all stick together to preserve the sport we all love instead of tearing each other apart and giving a gift to the antis.
Merry Christmas and good will to all men!

Actually, the proverbial shit hit the fan when they decided to charge clients non refundable trophy fees.

This has every bearing on what has developed.

I know both Buzz and Mike personally, and I have the highest respect for both of them.

But the idea of charging clients, in advance, of trophy fees that are not refundable is just obscene to me.

It is not acceptable under any circumstances.

Yes, we do need to stick together, but on good behavior.

We should never turn a blind eye when we see something which is just plain WRONG!

Someone comes up with an utterly stupid idea, others will voice their objections to it, and rightly so.

CMC is in the business of conducting hunting safaris.

They had a very good reputation, and I hope someone from them will at least try to repair the serious damage that has been caused.

And non on AR caused this damage.

It was self inflicted.

And I will repeat, it really needs someone from them to own up to it.

There is a lot I could say, but for the time being I am going to wait and see what reaction comes.

I have absolute no wish to see their reputation tarnished.

But, as the old saying goes, the proof in the pudding is in the eating.

It seems that people have forgotten that CMS changed there policy with regard to the pre payment of trophy fees after the discussion here on AR. I hunted Nyakasanga just a few months ago. NO prepayment.
It was a fantastic hunt and I will post a hunt report whwn I get the time.

Good Hunting

Carl Frederik

You are right, they did change it.

But only after someone complained here.

Point is, this sort of policy should NEVER have been put into effect in the first place.

That is what got this very sad ball rolling!

Buzz
Hopefully you will re-consider your position and continue to post. Just as you enjoy the hunt reports of others, we (the AR members) enjoy your contribution.

Criticism can sting, but as long as your hide is thick enough, it should not leave a permanent scar!
After all, you wouldn't pack up a hunt just because you got zapped by a tsetse fly or walked through a patch of buffalo beans!

JCHB

quote:

Originally posted by the Pom:
This has become the saddest of posts. Here we have a number of people, all deserving the greatest respect attacking each other over one failed hunt. I've had my share of those and if you want a peaceful and happy life you just have to be prepared to put themm behind you and look forward to the next hunt.
Mike, you had a failed hunt with spooky buffalo at a difficult time of year in a hard concession. There is nothing wrong with saying enough is enough and going off with your wife to enjoy doing something else, but you have to admit that everyone else who hunted in Dande East that season got their buff.
Myles, I am truly sorry you feel you can't post anymore. Don't let one unhappy client ruin things for you. Unhappy clients are inevitable in any business. Get over it!
Saeed, you have been running a great forum for a long time. Sometimes you must try to conciliate and bring people together instead of adding wood to the fire. The issue of pre-payment of fees on one of CMS's comncessions has no bearing on this particular forum. You have made your opinion clear enough before.
For God's. Allah's or Jehovah's sake lets all stick together to preserve the sport we all love instead of tearing each other apart and giving a gift to the antis.
Merry Christmas and good will to all men!

The most sensible post on this thread.

AGree with Pom and Jason.

CMS is a good outfit. We need them here.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Firstly a purely Xmas newsletter with some great news for fellow hunters has been totally hijacked.

Secondly, a hunter who comes in misses a buff and calls his hunt off early - at the time happily accepts a flight paid for by myself for him and his wife to go to the falls and then comes back and publically questions my integrity and gets an audience.

Buzz you are a great PH and operator but really is that your Christmas message?

Gotta take the rough with the smooth mate.

Very sad indeed!

Buzz is quite happy to get good clients from AR.

Once some started objecting to his new policies he wants to run away!

Buzz, I honestly wish you all the best.

You had a great reputation, stop trying to ruin it!

We as PHs need to apologize for our inconsistencies. We all screw up now and again and will endeavor to make it right. If a hunter here feels I have done wrong then so be it but I would never challenge him or her on a forum.

Very true Andrew.

We all make mistakes, no doubt about that.

But, we should face up to them.

Not blame others for them.

Buzz, here is a word of advice.

Whoever had that fantastic, business killing idea, of charging clients nonrefundable trophy fees in advance should be shown the door!

That is one of the most stupid, unacceptable, condition put on a client.

As I have mentioned before, not in a million years would I accept that sort of condition.

And frankly, if I see that on an outfitters website, he will never see me again looking at it!

Saeed,

Did I miss something? I thought CMS rescinded that policy rather quickly and admitted it was a bad idea.

Thanks to AR.

Which they are now leaving.

Just a coincidence, right?

Must have been a shock to realize that even free marketing can have a price, depending on the relative value and worth of the product, of course.

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Firstly a purely Xmas newsletter with some great news for fellow hunters has been totally hijacked.

Secondly, a hunter who comes in misses a buff and calls his hunt off early - at the time happily accepts a flight paid for by myself for him and his wife to go to the falls and then comes back and publically questions my integrity and gets an audience.

Buzz you are a great PH and operator but really is that your Christmas message?

Gotta take the rough with the smooth mate.

Very sad indeed!

Buzz is quite happy to get good clients from AR.

Once some started objecting to his new policies he wants to run away!

Buzz, I honestly wish you all the best.

You had a great reputation, stop trying to ruin it!

We as PHs need to apologize for our inconsistencies. We all screw up now and again and will endeavor to make it right. If a hunter here feels I have done wrong then so be it but I would never challenge him or her on a forum.

Very true Andrew.

We all make mistakes, no doubt about that.

But, we should face up to them.

Not blame others for them.

Buzz, here is a word of advice.

Whoever had that fantastic, business killing idea, of charging clients nonrefundable trophy fees in advance should be shown the door!

That is one of the most stupid, unacceptable, condition put on a client.

As I have mentioned before, not in a million years would I accept that sort of condition.

And frankly, if I see that on an outfitters website, he will never see me again looking at it!

Saeed,

Did I miss something? I thought CMS rescinded that policy rather quickly and admitted it was a bad idea.

Yes they did.

My point is that, that sort of policy should NEVER have been put into effect!

Especially by a well know and respected company, with years of experience.

In my 40 years of hunting Africa, I have seen a lot of drastic changes in the industry.

Today, there are hunters who wish to hunt Africa from all walks of life.

From those who can afford to to go every year, to the hunters who have to save for years to be able to go.

Imagine one of them is charged an advance payment of this non refundable trophy fee, he goes hunting, and like Mike did, miss an animal?

His money is gone.

He has nothing for it.

How does he feel?

I know, I have seen certain crooked outfitters charging clients for a MISEED animal.

How does that go with the members here?

The minute I see that sort of condition by ANY outfit, I never look at them again.

Let us take Mike's example - if he had paid a non refundable trophy fee, he would have lost it, and got no buffalo.

All because he MISSED his buffalo.

Missing is part of hunting.

This was a hunt in the wilds, and one would take his chances.

Years a friend came over with Safari Magazine, in it they had an article about some young girl who went "hunting" on a farm in South Africa.

She shot something like 7 animals, with SEVEN SHOTS!

He was incredulous!

I explained to him it was not a hunt by any stretch of the imagination.

It was a farm setup where she sat at a water hole - the pictures all proven this, and she sat in a blind and killed them.

Not so in a wild hunt.

I have personally seen people fire more missed shots than they hit in hunting.

No shame in that.

The utter shameful part is making YOU pay for animals in advance, and shooting them or not, you loose your money.

Yes, they did change that policy, but only after the negative reports posted here.

I am very sorry to see Buzz blaming AR for his company mistakes.

AR has never sided with any client, or outfitter, who is plainly in the WRONG!

We do not offer anyone protection.

Every individual who posts here, whether he is a client, a prospective client or someone in business, stand on their own two feet.

Buzz and his company has been providing very good services in the past, and obviously he has been very happy.

They come up with an utterly stupid idea, and it is discussed here, and he gets upset about, and then blames it on AR.

I find THAT very unacceptable behavior.

And him having a go at Mike for missing his buffalo, I find rather sad too.

Again, I am waiting for a positive response from them, being silent is certainly NOT going to help them.

AR will always remain open.

If some don't like it, I am afraid that is their problems, certainly NOT AR's.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

And him having a go at Mike for missing his buffalo, I find rather sad too.

How can anyone blame Buzz for pointing out the fact that Mike missed and quit AFTER Mike calls into question Buzz’s integrity and honesty? To me, challenging someone’s reputation for veracity and honesty is something you better be prepared to back up in spades. If someone did the same to you Saeed would you sit by and hold your tongue? I doubt it. Particularly in a situation where you have one person doing so in the face of a long-established reputation with many clients that tells a very different story. Mike started a pissing match and most of the piss ended up on his own shoes. To blame Buzz is ridiculous. Is there such a thing a male Karen?

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

And him having a go at Mike for missing his buffalo, I find rather sad too.

How can anyone blame Buzz for pointing out the fact that Mike missed and quit AFTER Mike calls into question Buzz’s integrity and honesty? To me, challenging someone’s reputation for veracity and honesty is something you better be prepared to back up in spades. If someone did the same to you Saeed would you sit by and hold your tongue? I doubt it. Particularly in a situation where you have one person doing so in the face of a long-established reputation with many clients that tells a very different story. Mike started a pissing match and most of the piss ended up on his own shoes. To blame Buzz is ridiculous. Is there such a thing a male Karen?

Totally agree with you Mike.

I do not understand how this thread developed just because of some blurred/hidden faces... It is the clients and PH's decision. And as far as I know ( correct me if I am wrong ) not against the AR rules. If it is you should clarify the rules for posting here Saeed - and stop all this nonsens.


Morten

quote:

Originally posted by The Norwegian:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

And him having a go at Mike for missing his buffalo, I find rather sad too.

How can anyone blame Buzz for pointing out the fact that Mike missed and quit AFTER Mike calls into question Buzz’s integrity and honesty? To me, challenging someone’s reputation for veracity and honesty is something you better be prepared to back up in spades. If someone did the same to you Saeed would you sit by and hold your tongue? I doubt it. Particularly in a situation where you have one person doing so in the face of a long-established reputation with many clients that tells a very different story. Mike started a pissing match and most of the piss ended up on his own shoes. To blame Buzz is ridiculous. Is there such a thing a male Karen?

Totally agree with you Mike.

I do not understand how this thread developed just because of some blurred/hidden faces... It is the clients and PH's decision. And as far as I know ( correct me if I am wrong ) not against the AR rules. If it is you should clarify the rules for posting here Saeed - and stop all this nonsens.


Morten

What rules?

We have an open forum, and everyone is free to post whatever they wish.

From what has been posted so far.

Mike went hunting for buffalo.

Apparently they were not as many as he thought.

They did find one, and he took a chance and he missed.

He felt staying longer was a waste of time, so he ended his hunt.

That was HIS choice, no one else.

Then another posted reported that CMS was demanding an upfront payment for trophies, and this payment is NON REFUNDABLE!

This is the part that I did not like, coming from CMS or anyone else.

It is a totally unacceptable condition, and for me it is a deal breaker.

Others seem to agree, so CMS changed their policy and removed this condition, which is great.

But it still does not alter the fact that they did demand it first, and only removed because members here objected to it.

Then Buzz posts his newsletter with people faces blocked.

I said I did not like to see that, as it actually distract from the whole picture, and makes the blurred face the main target to look at.

Others agreed.

Then Buzz comes back and tells us he will no longer post on AR, because some members have objected to his company's new policy.

Now, please enlighten me how the hell is it AR's or my fault?

Thanks for the newsletter CMS ! Wish you all a merry christmas . And to some of you guys shitting in our livingroom: Stop it! We are all hunters remember?

quote:

Originally posted by Odin:
Thanks for the newsletter CMS ! Wish you all a merry christmas . And to some of you guys shitting in our livingroom: Stop it! We are all hunters remember?

I agree with you.

We should stop this shitty business!

Who started this shitty business??

Treat your clients as untrustworthy crooks??

They have to pay non refundable trophy fees in advance?

THAT is the whole shitty part of this sorry episode!

And if you shit on your doorstep, don’t blame others of avoiding your door!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Odin:
Thanks for the newsletter CMS ! Wish you all a merry christmas . And to some of you guys shitting in our livingroom: Stop it! We are all hunters remember?

I agree with you.

We should stop this shitty business!

Who started this shitty business??

Treat your clients as untrustworthy crooks??

They have to pay non refundable trophy fees in advance?

THAT is the whole shitty part of this sorry episode!

And if you shit on your doorstep, don’t blame others of avoiding your door!

With all respect Saeed, The non refundable shit was a mess up and is gone now. A mistake hopefully never to come back. The client who got angry for missing a buffalo? Well I understand the sour feelings. But let it go. Who wins if we keep throwing fists at each other? No one!! And regarding my doorstep I will keep it shitfree. If you ever cross the border from swe I will have the tea warm and fireplace even warmer any time

Buzz was very specific why he is leaving the forums.

Two instances he noted.

Both of which were created by him and his company.

The non refundable fees and blurring of faces.

Ok they have corrected at least one.

But don’t come here and tell me you are leaving because someone objected to your bad behavior!

Recognize what you have done wrong, and may be learn from it.

But, don’t, under any circumstances, blame others.

I do not find that acceptable at all.

And all this talk of let us all get on well together.

Do we keep our mouths shut when we see something wrong?

Put the blame on others who had nothing to do with creating the problem in the first place??

quote:

Buzz, here is a word of advice.

Whoever had that fantastic, business killing idea, of charging clients nonrefundable trophy fees in advance should be shown the door!

That is one of the most stupid, unacceptable, condition put on a client.

As I have mentioned before, not in a million years would I accept that sort of condition.

And frankly, if I see that on an outfitters website, he will never see me again looking at it!

Saeed, just to be clear, if an outfitter follows your requirements above, would you be ok when you arrive and some of the quota you showed interest in (but did not pay for yet) is no longer available?

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:

quote:

Buzz, here is a word of advice.

Whoever had that fantastic, business killing idea, of charging clients nonrefundable trophy fees in advance should be shown the door!

That is one of the most stupid, unacceptable, condition put on a client.

As I have mentioned before, not in a million years would I accept that sort of condition.

And frankly, if I see that on an outfitters website, he will never see me again looking at it!

Saeed, just to be clear, if an outfitter follows your requirements above, would you be ok when you arrive and some of the quota you showed interest in (but did not pay for yet) is no longer available?

No.

Not at all.

Hunting is already complicated by the animals themselves, we don’t need the outfitter to add to that confusion.

There is no absolute guarantee in hunting, but one would expect a reasonable chance.

Buffalo is one of the more certain animals would find if he has gone to the right place.

Lion and leopard is not.

I hunt mainly buffalo, and I have never failed to fill my quota.

And everyone else in our group too fill their quota.

I hunt both lion and leopard every year, but miss my chance on both on most years.

I don’t complain about it because I know it is a fact of hunting.

I have to laugh at all of this talk about my missed shot, started of course by the outfitter in his Christmas Newsletter!

Claims that I am whining or blaming others or angry about it are flat out and demonstrably wrong.

They are either borne of malice, in the case of MJines, who has his head so far up the outfitter's ass that he is being willfully blind and shitty, both; or ignorance, on the part of those who have not read my report but are commenting anyway.

I was actually happy that I missed that shot! As I say in my report, it was so risky that I instantly regretted taking it.

I was enormously relieved that I hadn't wounded a buffalo. Tracking a wounded buff through the hellacious thorn bush we faced daily in Dande East would not have been fun.

Taking that shot was a bad decision - for which I was solely responsible - made under pressure. We had not seen anything remotely shootable for six days. So, against my better judgment, I shot at a brown blur. Not an excuse; just an explanation.

Of course, after that, we hunted without seeing a buffalo, much less a shootable one, for three more days before I decided that we needed to stop banging our heads against the wall of Dande East.

And now to see the outfitter, and his surrogate MJines, suggest that He had a shot, and missed it!, as proof that Dande East is a prime buffalo hunting destination, is hilarious.

Understood, perhaps the difference we are talking about is on secondary vs primary game? You go on a buffalo hunt, you expect there to be a buffalo tag available and you do not want to pay a trophy fee in advance, that is reasonable. What was described in this transaction (by Buzz) I believe was more secondary game. You go on a buffalo hunt but would also like to pursue a zebra, kudu, bushbuck, etc.. and do not want to pay in advance for that either. Operator holds the tags back from other paying customers, you arrive and inform him you have changed your mind and just want the buffalo, he is now stuck eating the quota he held, is that reasonable?

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:
Understood, perhaps the difference we are talking about is on secondary vs primary game? You go on a buffalo hunt, you expect there to be a buffalo tag available and you do not want to pay a trophy fee in advance, that is reasonable. What was described in this transaction (by Buzz) I believe was more secondary game. You go on a buffalo hunt but would also like to pursue a zebra, kudu, bushbuck, etc.. and do not want to pay in advance for that either. Operator holds the tags back from other paying customers, you arrive and inform him you have changed your mind and just want the buffalo, he is now stuck eating the quota he held, is that reasonable?

You can make all sorts of arguments, as Buzz did, that someone booked and did not want to shoot.

Still does not alter the fact I, and I am talking about myself, no one else, would absolutely, positively, refuse to pay a trophy fee in advance.

And once the outfitter says that it is NON REFUNDABLE, I walk out of the door and never pay that out fit another glance.

Again, others might accept this.

I don’t!

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
I have to laugh at all of this talk about my missed shot, started of course by the outfitter in his Christmas Newsletter!

Claims that I am whining or blaming others or angry about it are flat out and demonstrably wrong.

They are either borne of malice, in the case of MJines, who has his head so far up the outfitter's ass that he is being willfully blind and shitty, both; or ignorance, on the part of those who have not read my report but are commenting anyway.

I was actually happy that I missed that shot! As I say in my report, it was so risky that I instantly regretted taking it.

I was enormously relieved that I hadn't wounded a buffalo. Tracking a wounded buff through the hellacious thorn bush we faced daily in Dande East would not have been fun.

Taking that shot was a bad decision - for which I was solely responsible - made under pressure. We had not seen anything remotely shootable for six days. So, against my better judgment, I shot at a brown blur. Not an excuse; just an explanation.

Of course, after that, we hunted without seeing a buffalo, much less a shootable one, for three more days before I decided that we needed to stop banging our heads against the wall of Dande East.

And now to see the outfitter, and his surrogate MJines, suggest that He had a shot, and missed it!, as proof that Dande East is a prime buffalo hunting destination, is hilarious.

. . . I guess there is such a thing as male Karen.

If you want to stand alone as the only client that I am aware of that has ever accused Buzz and CMS of being dishonest after literally dozens of others here have hunted with them and had just the opposite experience, I think folks are smart enough to draw their only conclusions as to the merits of your claims. You went on a hunt that did not play out the way you scripted it (that's why it is called hunting, not shooting), missed a shot (that you now regret taking), quit before the hunt was over, and went home with your panties in a wad. It had to be someone else's fault . . . it couldn't have been yours.

And that is your right, but a company is not wrong in making decisions to protect themselves from less than honorable (or even thoughtless, inconsiderate parties), which is all that was done (IMHO). I agree that exceptions should be made and I haven't heard CMS deny that a "one size fits all" policy was ill advised. I will recognize that it appears Michael Robinson was exactly the type client their policy was implemented for.

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:
And that is your right, but a company is not wrong in making decisions to protect themselves from less than honorable (or even thoughtless, inconsiderate parties), which is all that was done (IMHO). I agree that exceptions should be made and I haven't heard CMS deny that a "one size fits all" policy was ill advised. I will recognize that it appears Michael Robinson was exactly the type client their policy was implemented for.

I will recognize that it appears you are a cheap shot artist and beneath contempt.

I paid full freight for this safari, including all daily rates for the full 14 days and tips to camp staff and my PH that I would have paid had we been 100% successful.

Never would I defend any hunter who does otherwise, unless a discount is offered by the outfitter, which was not the case here.

And I would gladly have paid trophy fees for two buffalo and a tuskless elephant, had any been in evidence and shootable.

Like Saeed, however, I will never pre-pay trophy fees on a non-refundable basis. That, to me, is akin to highway robbery.

A company can put any conditions they like.

And I as a prospective client will decide if their conditions are acceptable.

The conditions they set, are totally unreasonable and unacceptable to ME!

And if I see a hunt offered here with this condition, I will delete it.

It is my condition.

Just like I have said I will not allow anyone to offer hunts here where a tip is mentioned.

Again, it is MY condition.

No one has to like it.

It is not costing anyone a penny to post, or offer hunts here.

Asking for tips, is wrong as far as I am concerned.

Demanding an advance payment of trophy fees, NON REFUNDABLE, is also unacceptable to me.

No one has to like it.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Buzz was very specific why he is leaving the forums.

Two instances he noted.

Both of which were created by him and his company.

The non refundable fees and blurring of faces.

Ok they have corrected at least one.

But don’t come here and tell me you are leaving because someone objected to your bad behavior!

Recognize what you have done wrong, and may be learn from it.

But, don’t, under any circumstances, blame others.

I do not find that acceptable at all.

And all this talk of let us all get on well together.

Do we keep our mouths shut when we see something wrong?

Put the blame on others who had nothing to do with creating the problem in the first place??

AR allows you to express individual opinions and debate. It has nothing to do with hunters against hunters but rather a complaint that has been taken out of proportion. Debate is all about free speech which other hunting sites deny you.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
I have to laugh at all of this talk about my missed shot, started of course by the outfitter in his Christmas Newsletter!

Claims that I am whining or blaming others or angry about it are flat out and demonstrably wrong.

They are either borne of malice, in the case of MJines, who has his head so far up the outfitter's ass that he is being willfully blind and shitty, both; or ignorance, on the part of those who have not read my report but are commenting anyway.

I was actually happy that I missed that shot! As I say in my report, it was so risky that I instantly regretted taking it.

I was enormously relieved that I hadn't wounded a buffalo. Tracking a wounded buff through the hellacious thorn bush we faced daily in Dande East would not have been fun.

Taking that shot was a bad decision - for which I was solely responsible - made under pressure. We had not seen anything remotely shootable for six days. So, against my better judgment, I shot at a brown blur. Not an excuse; just an explanation.

Of course, after that, we hunted without seeing a buffalo, much less a shootable one, for three more days before I decided that we needed to stop banging our heads against the wall of Dande East.

And now to see the outfitter, and his surrogate MJines, suggest that He had a shot, and missed it!, as proof that Dande East is a prime buffalo hunting destination, is hilarious.

. . . I guess there is such a thing as male Karen.

If you want to stand alone as the only client that I am aware of that has ever accused Buzz and CMS of being dishonest after literally dozens of others here have hunted with them and had just the opposite experience, I think folks are smart enough to draw their only conclusions as to the merits of your claims. You went on a hunt that did not play out the way you scripted it (that's why it is called hunting, not shooting), missed a shot (that you now regret taking), quit before the hunt was over, and went home with your panties in a wad. It had to be someone else's fault . . . it couldn't have been yours.

Mike, I fully understand your argument but if you were paying top dollar for a buff hunt you would expect to choose a trophy of your choice from a number of encounters. Just look at your hunt in Uganda. You were certainly not misrepresented there!

Comparing Uganda to the Zambezi Valley is chalk and cheese. One goes to the Zambezi Valley to experience close up encounters in the jesse after oftentimes lengthy tracking sessions, not pick and shoot hunting that is often the case in other countries. If the latter is what Mike expected, then just add another item to his growing would-have, could-have, should-have list . . . making sure you understand the hunting conditions before you book. Again, you can spin this anyway you want but from my perspective it has a lot more to do with sour grapes than any dishonesty on the outfitters part. Especially considering the body of former and current clients of CMS who have never called their integrity and honesty into question.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Comparing Uganda to the Zambezi Valley is chalk and cheese. One goes to the Zambezi Valley to experience close up encounters in the jesse after oftentimes lengthy tracking sessions, not pick and shoot hunting that is often the case in other countries. If the latter is what Mike expected, then just add another item to his growing would-have, could-have, should-have list . . . making sure you understand the hunting conditions before you book. Again, you can spin this anyway you want but from my perspective it has a lot more to do with sour grapes than any dishonesty on the outfitters part. Especially considering the body of former and current clients of CMS who have never called their integrity and honesty into question.

Fair enough. Hunters don't tend to post their failures and I would like to see some correspondence regarding the sale of this safari.

I have hunted Zimbabwe, different areas, and have always seen hundreds of buffalo.

Never failed to shoot all on my quota.

Both Zimbabwe and Tanzania should offer any hunter the opportunity to pick the trophy he wants.

We hunted Mlele twice.

Very thick area, but always managed to shoot all the buffalo on our quota.

The area is so thick, that our video came man could hardly get a buffalo in focus, let alone take a video.

But we still get them all.

Because they were plenty.

I've sheet some real shit show threads on AR but this takes the cake.

Buzz, Merry Christmas. I'm looking forward to seeing you guys in Dallas and looking forward to returning for another buffalo adventure with CMS.

quote:

Demanding an advance payment of trophy fees, NON REFUNDABLE, is also unacceptable to me.

Understood, much of this discussion has referenced "trust" and "honesty", you state that you know Buzz and Myles personally. Have you ever seen anything in their history that would suggest they would keep a "non-refundable" trophy fee for an animal they did not give the client a reasonable chance at a desirable specimen?

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:

quote:

Demanding an advance payment of trophy fees, NON REFUNDABLE, is also unacceptable to me.

Understood, much of this discussion has referenced "trust" and "honesty", you state that you know Buzz and Myles personally. Have you ever seen anything in their history that would suggest they would keep a "non-refundable" trophy fee for an animal they did not give the client a reasonable chance at a desirable specimen?

I only know Buzz personally, not Myles.

All I heard is that they were demanding an advance payment of a non refundable trophy fee.

To me, whether that animal is shown to the client or not is immaterial.

The client has to pay, in advance, with the understanding that his money is NON REFUNDABLE!

The argument stops right there, because I will not go any further.

It is actually no different to some South African outfitters who demand payment for a missed animal!!

Not wounded, but MISSED.

Both of these conditions are totally unacceptable to me.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
I've sheet some real shit show threads on AR but this takes the cake.

Buzz, Merry Christmas. I'm looking forward to seeing you guys in Dallas and looking forward to returning for another buffalo adventure with CMS.

Todd CMS has been kind to you but will you do an early season hunt in Dande east for that price? Just asking.

Some people don’t seem to appreciate the truth.

Even if it smacks them in the face.