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| One of Us |
tape your money to your prosthetic leg walk through customs and any where else you want to and have no worries. Until your PH starts gnawing at your leg when you are taking your afternoon nap  | |||
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Wes, Not in all cases but in many cases, there are other options. Not least amongst 'em, electronic money transfer. It's easy, cheap, fast and convenient. Payments are becoming less of a problem as each year goes by.
I've just spat good malt whisky all over my keyboard!  | |||
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| One of Us |
I have to agree that carrying large amounts of cash is dangerous especially in Johannesburg. I have used the same agent for a long time. I pay all daily rates and costs up front. He usually arranges for me to wire the trophy fee money upon my return. Heck, most of the time when I leave I don't even have a bill. At times, particularly in Argentina, they want a check. I have offered to wire the money which would be there in minutes. They want a check. I never understand that. Finally, no one has commented on something in the original poster's postings here that caught my eye. In the first post he (I think it is a he) said that they had 2 clients that were problems paying. In a subsequent post, he said that he got screwed on his first trip to Africa. Is he an outfitter, a client or both? That seemed strange to me. His first post seemed genuine. Thereafter, I was suspicious. | |||
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I have seen too many threads devolve into rounds of name calling by one member or group with regard to another member or group. It had already started here so I posted Saeed's terms of service which ask members to be civil to others. It would be nice if this thread does not become a re-hash of another thread with endless personal attacks. Sorry if you found that offensive. ------------------------------- Some Pictures from Namibia Some Pictures from Zimbabwe An Elephant Story | |||
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Charles: My point with 500 grains is he would be the first to delve into name calling, etc. He wasn't exactly puritanical. As for rehashing old stuff, I will do it everytime Phifer/Llamapacker posts. And I am apparently not the only who feels that way. | |||
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I do not endorse the name-calling regardless of who does it. Dan has his faults, but he also helped me when I had questions and has a lot of experience, and I miss those contributions. My post was not directed at you or anyone else in particular. Just hate to have a thread that may be instructive to a lot of us locked because it goes sideways. It is not up to me anyway -- Saeed is more than capable of enforcing his terms of service as and when he sees fit. Apologies for the hijack of the thread. Back to the regularly-scheduled programming. ------------------------------- Some Pictures from Namibia Some Pictures from Zimbabwe An Elephant Story | |||
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Steve wasting good malt again I thought you had better manors!!!!!! now get Susan to bring you your bib so she does not have to wipe your chin every 5 mins it's terrible when a man get old and started dulling his single malt  | |||
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It was only a Highland malt rather than an Islay ...... and only a very little, so not too much of a disaster! | |||
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ya but you still need a bib!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you forget I have seen you drink before and we wont even mention your eating habits but you do turn a nice shade of red when the nice lady brings you your yogurt | |||
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I'll get you for that you bastard!  That had to be one of the most embarassing moments of my life.... I just didn't know where to put my face!  | |||
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ME ME what did I do?? your talking about my lack of a father like that WHAT DID I DO her chest would have been a nice place but I think her husband might have took offence and I was not even trying hard to embarrass you just think what would have happen if i was trying | |||
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AAZ, You can continue to “summarize”, fabricate and just plain lie about the Nixon / SSG fiasco, but you don’t intimidate me. You can’t seem to get even 10% of the facts right, but closed- minded fools like you who hide behind your screen name seem to get braver with every post. Send me a PM with your name and phone number if you want to talk directly and learn about this issue. You, and many others on AR, don't have a clue as to the extent of Nixon's illegal activities. Keep burying your head in the sand and you never will. Much of the vitriol posted on AR is nothing more than posturing by those who want to claim they "didn't know" when someday they have to answer USFWS questions about their relationship with Nixon. You seem to forget that I never posted a hunt report, or started the entire mud slinging event. I’ve never posted the events and activities I witnessed while on safari with Nixon. Some find me guilty for not posting everything on this forum. Too bad, but I have cooperated with every official investigation, and in some cases been privy to statements and results of inquiries of others. Every time you and your buddies want to bring this up again just gives me another opportunity to warn people about Nixon and his operation. I’ve moved on and don’t see a need to beat this dead horse any longer. But if you want to keep posting lies and malicious accusations, I’ll keep warning everyone to avoid Nixon and SSG. There are a number of entities watching Nixon closely, and the poor SOB hunting with Nixon when they finally take action will be in for a world of hurt. It kind of reminds me of the OoA saga so well reported on this site. They had many supporters (and detractors) on AR over the course of a few years, but a few still even hunt with the latest reincarnation of this outfit. Even the most casual reader of AR knows that there is more than just a little smoke associated with this outfit. I don't have any illusion of changing your mind, and don't spend all day on the computer posting to AR. I try not to hijack others threads with a recounting of this sad outfit, but if you see a need to chime in after I post, I'll continue to post a rebuttal when I see your posts. I'm sure other are tired of this silliness, so I try to let the occassional snide remark go by unchallenged. Only a fool would be so certain of his conclusions with no first hand knowledge of the events. Bill | |||
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the FACT is Billy Boy, you have never responded at all to any of the hugely conflicting tales. The FACT is, you are accusing Nixon of stealing your Traveler's Checks and trying to cash them. One of you is lying. I am betting it is you. You never responded to issue of those gifts. You claim Nixon was hunting illegally - so why did you keep pulling the trigger??? Why didn't you report your traveler's checks stolen here? If Nixon is the scumbug you purport him to be and you are so interested in getting the word out, why didn't you say a single thing about your hunt until the TC issue came up? You state you paid your trophy fees but then refuse to pay for them to shipped home? That makes absolutely no sense. You made up the identity of AFRhunter and then blame us. And let's forget the infamous "what would you do post" about shooting the wrong elephant. These things I am stating are not lies. They are inconsistencies that you have never addressed. Is it any wonder why so many of us here thinks you anything but a dirtbag? You are perhaps the most disliked poster in the history of AR. | |||
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Ya know AAZW, I think a simple truthful answer to your questions is not an unreasonable request and would go a long way to resolve the conflicting statements. Rusty We Band of Brothers! DRSS, NRA & SCI Life Member "I am rejoiced at my fate. Do not be uneasy about me, for I am with my friends." ----- David Crockett in his last letter (to his children), January 9th, 1836 "I will never forsake Texas and her cause. I am her son." ----- Jose Antonio Navarro, from Mexican Prison in 1841 "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson Declaration of Arbroath April 6, 1320-“. . .It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.” | |||
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I wait for the reply with baited breath. Oh, the irony of it all..... | |||
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Tiresome that this thread has been well and truly hi jacked and left the original post standing in the middle of nowhere with no clothes on. Ho hum COUNTRYSPORTS. Established 1984. Web sites: www.countrysports.co.uk & www.fishinginuk.co.uk SCOTLAND, ENGLAND, POLAND, SOUTH AFRICA | |||
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The last time I hunted in africa I shot extra animals and then went to the bank to get money on my creditcard but the credit card company froze the transfer fearing fraud. I went home and sent a certified check to the american booking agent and there was no problem. It seems to me that what we need is a safari credit company of some sorts that can transfer funds and set up a system to keep the fraud down and get payment to the PH. It might be a good business oportunity for anyone interested | |||
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Assuming you are not just going out on a murder any animal anywhere you see them trip, the Safari Operator can hold your trophies until your extra animal payments have been wired....or does one just want photos?? Most of my trophy shipments have taken way too long anyway without a money dispute! | |||
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Regarding earlier posts I don't see why travellers cheques are not acceptable. How does one get good "electronic banking access" in the bush anyway? Also I would NOT be entering my banking passwords and information on a strangers PC which could be recording it all. No way. Nor internet cafes and all that BS. | |||
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The reason an increasing number of companies are refusing T/Cs is (mostly) two fold. Firstly, they can be cancelled and (for example) reported as stolen. Not only are they no good to the operator then but he might also then face charges of which he is innocent. There's also the fact that an increasing number of game depts will only accept payment in cash...... and incidentally, often, not even in old notes with the small heads on them. (Apparently the small head notes are easier to forge and and the forgeries are less detectable) Internet access in the bush has been available for (at a guess) about a decade. The first generation was via sat phones hooked up to a laptop but was a bit slow and after that, they introduced the B Gan and later, the RB Gan (or it might have been the other way round). You can find out more about them with a Google search for RB Gan or B Gan. The RB Gans are very reliable indeed nowadays and as long as you turn your automatic updates on your lapatop off beforehand reasonably inexpensive to run. These things have for many years allowed full and reasonably fast internet access. You can use them for internet banking, surfing the net such as visiting AR and even use Skype on them. The only time they're less than effective is if there are storm clouds about........ I'm sure Saeed will have been using a simillar system to post his hunt reports from the bush for some years. I see your point about passwords and someone else's laptop but you could always clear the cookies etc afterwards or alternatively, just take your own laptop and hook it up to the RB Gan. Another newish way to do it is for the operator to have a card facility where he can process a transaction over the internet or by satphone and there's a few options there. Paypal don't offer merchant accounts in Africa but most banks now offer suitable facilities as do companies such as Monsterpay. I'd guess that some prior clearance arrangements (at both ends) would have to be made with those though. Simple phone banking using the sat phone is another option but of course, you don't get a proof of payment page to save with that option. | |||
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Shakari is correct that wiring money is so easy that it can be done with a phone call or via the internet. Hell, most simple cell phones have enough internet capability to get it done if you have service and how hard is it to settle up back in town rather than in camp? I would also guess most safari clients have a pretty good relationship with their banks or even "private banking" privileges so, in this day and age of satellite phones or almost ubiquitous wireless access in most towns (I have seen some damned rustic internet cafes on this continent!), there is NO real need to "wire money when you get home". However, Gatogordo is absolutely correct in stating that only a fool travels outside his own country without a few thousand bucks cash on him...in ADDITION to credit cards and travelers checks! Now, all that said, where are all the safari companies with credit card facilities? I would guess such convenience would dramatically increase the number of "impulse buys" when that 70 pound elephant or 45 inch buffalo steps out of the bush! Of course, it couldn't have anything to do with outfitters not wanting a paper trail of the actual money paid could it?   Seriously, I imagine the shortage of Paypal and CC type arrangements has a lot to do with the potential for "charge-backs" when the client disputes the transaction. Any merchant will tell you that the CC company or Paypal will most always side with the client and not the payee. I have been on the client side of this conflict where I was actually defrauded by an auto-body company and was AMAZED at how little documentation Visa required to remove the charges from my card. It is VERY easy to imagine a cleint calling Visa or Paypal and saying "I didn't shoot what this guy in Africa says I did". Who are they gonna believe? | |||
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And some Game Depts. today won't take cash and will only settle for a Banker's Cheque (Quote)Internet access in the bush has been available for (at a guess) about a decade. The first generation was via sat phones hooked up to a laptop but was a bit slow and after that, they introduced the B Gan and later, the RB Gan (or it might have been the other way round)(Quote). Some of those outfitters who post urgent hunts and disappear for months one end should invest in one these contraptions | |||
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What pisses me off about them is every time they bring out a new generation, the old one stops working so they always have you over a barrel. Not even the sat phone sim cards seem to last very long before you get stitched up for a new one..... at least, that seems to be the case here. | |||
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How common is it that a client after leaving the safari and paying by travellers cheques, later claims they were stolen etc? Especially considering such a client will be kissing their trophies good bye by doing so. Also making a false claim to AMEX or whomever is probably a criminal offence and the results are not going to be a good situation for the client making a false claim? Only heard about it this one time here on AR. I certainly never going to carry US$10,000 plus in cash to pay the balance of the hunt when T/Cs are acceptable to 99% of businesses. Some people sometimes suggest wiring 100% of the payment to the outfitter or agent upfront and then getting a refund or whatever if required after the safari. Hells Bells this certainly puts the trust factor in the opposite direction considering that many times we hear of circumstances detrimentally impacting the client etc. Really if an outfitter is having multiple problems with clients paying at the end of a safari, other questions need to be asked. | |||
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| new member |
It is a trust factor, on both sides. My outfitter had me pay half at booking, the balance 30 days before departure. I also overpaid a trophy deposit, during my hunt I shot what I wanted , when I wanted. I recieved a refund before I left the ranch , and everyone was happy. Some people (I'm not going to call them hunters) screw things up for everyone. | |||
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Quite possibly the best post I have ever read, so much estrogen flowing there I just wanna get out a copy of Steel Magnolias and curl up on the couch with a wine cooler every time I read it. Insofar as non paying clients, name them, give details, and warn others. From what I have observed there is not much the law can/will do for you as far as setting things straight, so really you are left with your best option being a good public shaming and trying to warn enough outfitters that the same clown can never book another hunt again without paying cash up front. Nothing more disgusting to me than screwing someone out of their hard earned money, especially when it seems so many of these accusations are directed at people who have more than adequate means. The main vice of capitalism is the uneven distribution of prosperity. The main vice of socialism is the even distribution of misery. -- Winston Churchill | |||
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 The main vice of capitalism is the uneven distribution of prosperity. The main vice of socialism is the even distribution of misery. -- Winston Churchill | |||
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This thread was the topic of a conversation last night between myself, two of the Outfits that I operate with and a Client. I will add that a couple of single malts made the discussion all the more interesting. The fact is that Most hunts are booked with more than a little trust involved. There sure are bastards out there (both Clients and PHs) who will try to Jimmy the system. However ,maybe niavely, I believe that the vast majority of hunters and outfits etc are good hard working,honest men and women . A good hunt contract and most importantly, good research will steer most clients the right way. For the PHs , clarity and transparency all the way through their relationship with the client, and the fact that trophies are held until full and final payment is received should be enough to cover them. Maybe I am just niave...what ever happened to a gentlemans word | |||
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99% out of 100 people could funtion with a "gentleman's word". I would find it easy. 1 out of 100 will screw it up for the other 99. ______________________ DRSS ______________________ Hunt Reports 2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112 2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012 DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191 Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771 Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141 Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141 | |||
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I can speak only for myself but an outfitter that will not take TCs is a deal breaker for me. I will prepay all daily rates but will not carry large amounts of cash. Take a look at elephant trophy fees in Botsweana and tell me you are willing to spend a night in Jo'berg with that much cash. I'm not even considering the limit of $10K in currency issue. Wire transfers may sound simple but I am never comfortable using someone elses computer to send highly confidential information and I don't plan to lug a computer on my vacation. It is unfortunate that any outfitter gets stiffed by a client but it is a cost of doing business that must be considered and unfortunately anticipated. My company often insured receivables when a deal that was a little uncomfortable was encountered. I wonder if insurance on receivables can be available to outfitters with the premium included in daily fees. If this cash requirement becomes the norm in Africa, I'm afraid I'll have to look elsewhere. Americans are becoming targets as it is when traveling without advertising the presense of large amounts of cash. | |||
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Even erasing cookies can not guarnatee that their is a program recording every key stroke you make on the computer. I know because I use to run a program on my home computer and can see every password, website my daughters went to when they where younger. Jim | |||
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Ya'll will have to forgive my ignorance of how safari companies work. I've always paid a previously agreed upon deposit which always includes the daily fees and then roughly half of the expected trophy fees. What I'm digesting here is that some hunters only pay the daily fees up front? If so, I have to question the safari operators business/mgmt practices. First off, it's the only way to know they won't get totally screwed. I understand that first timers in S Africa have no idea what their hearts desire will be until they get there. But there needs to be a better standard. More seasoned hunters would seem to be more understanding. My first safari was in S Africa and everything was paid for before I left. On my last two I owed a small amount which I promptly paid when I returned to the US and on the other the operator actually owed me which was promptly paid when I returned. | |||
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It is probably a little late in this thread to post something constructive, but here goes. Mr. Reich said "there is no way to screen clients". I disagree. No disrespect Mr. Reich, but there is. I am in the property management business. No one gets into an apartment without being screened. There are many screening companies. They can check credit, civil court records, criminal background, employment, etc. We pay $38US for a screen. I know of no reason why this service should not be available to booking agents. There are a few hoops to jump, and it may not be practical for an African outfitting company to use this method. However, if they are booking 20 or more America clients per year, the cost might be worth it. One must sign a contract and be able to guarantee security, etc. It's a pain in the butt, but not insurmountable. Regarding the comments about being able to discern the character of a potential client by viewing his behavior in a restuarant, kindly allow me to inform you that true con artists are exceedingly adept at putting on a good show. A credit report is the proof. Don't ever kid yourself that you can judge a man's character by simple observation. The crook's survive on this foolish belief. Don't ask me how i know. I have done only ten safaris. Each PH I consider a friend. I am honorary uncle to one lovely sweet girl in Limpopo as a consequence. They have extended their trust more than I would consider judicious. I would not in a million years betray such trust. Not all clients fit this mold. I hope this is helpful. | |||
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It really makes no diffrerence what screening is done. There will always be some bad apples in the cart, and those are the ones who are going to mess things up for all of us. That is why it would be very helpful if we get all the details of this particular incident sorted out. No business can be conducted without at least some trust. More trust is normally built through repeat dealings, or through reputation. | |||
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I have made two trips to Africa. The first was by recommendation of MJ for Buffalo with CM Safaris. I was comfortable with sending them the $$$ thru him. This April I was the first rifle client with a new company. A friend of twenty-eight years on the PD here referenced this young couple. With us not knowing each other, they were comfortable with me bringing cash. I paid them the daily rate the second night in camp. I paid the rest of the trophy fees a couple days later. I hope to hunt with them again soon. This time I would be good-to-go with sending an EFT a week before I left. There are at least a dozen outfits I would do that with, based on their impeccable AR record. It appears that about 1% on each side here screw things up mightily for the other 99%. Rich Happy Turkey Day! | |||
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Clients are not the only problem in the safari business. When I hunted in Tanzania, it turned out that the safari company's representative in Tanzania had been embezzling over a period of years and was fired shortly after my departure. The company was a relatively large one and made good on the lost funds, but had they not done so, I would have been stuck with either having to pay twice for my trophies (two elephants, five Cape buffalo, lion, leopard, greater kudu, sable and assorted plains game) or losing them. The next year I was booked for a hunt in Kenya, including elephant (my main interest). Kenya then banned elephant hunting. I was able to postpone the trip for a year, in the hopes that the ban would be lifted, but if I had cancelled completely, with justification, what would have been the odds of recovering my deposit, had the company chosen to contest it? (Of course, the ban was never lifted, and instead broadened to a total ban on hunting shortly afterwards.) I don't know how much this contributed to the feeling of mutual trust between the safari company and myself, but I initially made contact with my PH at a Game COIN convention in San Antonio, and later entertained the hunter in my home, where he was able to use the phone to contact his wife, who had just delivered their second child in his absence, but there were certainly never any disagreements of a financial nature between us. In the first five weeks we spent essentially alone together, his tales of seducing clients' wives/girlfriends wore a little thin, but otherwise, no complaints. Subsequent safaris were not unaccompanied, so no further problems in that regard. | |||
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Not quite sure of the point you are trying to make. | |||
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Saeed, Please refer to your past post about revealing bad apples. "And those who are guilt should suffer the consequences." There is no doubt that Phifer is guilty. Why should he be here? "You only gotta do one thing well to make it in this world" - J Joplin | |||
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Jack, Your Holier than Thou attitude is wearing more than a little thin with many on this site. Aside from your own support of illegal hunting in Zimbabwe, you have no idea about the particulars of this event. You and a few of your buddies have reached conclusions without any real knowledge of the facts. The aftermath of this situation to date has been the disappearance of a fly by night booking agent on this site, and the removal of an unlicensed PH from the Malipati concession. Just try to dispute these facts. There has been a rather thorough investigation by several parties. Trying to hide your own suspect actions through wild accusations against others is a common tactic of the guilty. Perhaps I need to start replying to every one of your post with accusations of your association with illegal hunting. It seems counter to the spirit of this site, but there seems to be few rules of decency in the terms of service on AR. I won't be going away unless directly requested by Saeed. Having done nothing wrong, I refuse to be intimidated by a few rabid dogs. As the owner of this site, I respect the wishes and requests Saeed makes to the AR community. Are you willing to follow his rules as well? Bill | |||
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