I went back to my 2009 hunt report and deleted the photos. I happened by chance to find my photos on the outfitter's (actually the agent's) web page. I did not give them the photos nor did I give them permission to use my name or photos. I contacted him via email and requested that they be removed. I also don't have issues with the agent other than posting my name and photos without my permission. They are now gone, so thanks for that.

There were more issues with the owner than what were in my report. There are a few members of this forum who know. Due to that, I would never be able to recommend them. Some have hunted with them and enjoyed their hunts very much. I am not going to get into any battles here over what happened, but it was not for me. I did not say in my report, but I left the camp several days early because I had enough.

I am posting this, so you know that whatever you post on the internet may end up somewhere else and it may not be where you want it. I did not give my photos to any one, so I can only assume they got them off this site. They were the exact ones posted here. I don't have any issues with this site, so no one take it that way please. I will continue to post here, but will be more cautious about photos.

And the outfitter is????

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:
And the outfitter is????

Yes, and who is the agent?

Once you post your trophy pic on the internet they become part of the public domain and can be used by anyone, without your permission or prior consent. Which is exactly why I refuse requests to post my trophy pics.

I would have given the pics to them so they could post them on their site if the conduct of the owner would have been different. I never gave any thought to public domain when I posted my pics. Now I will think more seriously about it before I post again.

I will say that the agent really is a good guy. He was very helpful when I was booking my trip. I would book with him again if he had a hunt I was interested in and it was a different owner. I had no doubt that he would remove the pics at my request. He removed them in a timely manner and notified me after he did it as I requested.

I probably mad a mistake in not letting the agent know my issues, so his posting my pics may have been done more innocently than anything else. When I got back I figured the hunt was over and I would move on and that would be the end of it. Hopefully now it is.

The sad part about all this is that I would have liked to continue to hunt with them. I had no issues with the hunting, accommodations and the food (except for the tuna casserole thing). Fortunately there are a lot of other outfitters.

The only way to prevent having pictures posted to the internet from becoming part of the public domain is to copywrite them. But that is a lot of crap (and some expense)to go through just to post pictures.

You post on a public forum any one can copy and paste. If the agent took them we as members have a right to know so we don't get scammed like you did.
If you had issues you should have put it down in writing and let those responsible know the facts.
Since writing this who are the responsible parties?
What's the big deal about a photograph posted? I have nothing to hide.

Mike

Mike:

"What's the big deal about a photograph posted? I have nothing to hide".

Even if it is used as a commercial publicity stunt by agent or outfitter for personal gain?
I don't think too many people would accept that.

Guys

Internet laws vary from country to country but generally the fact that you've posted them on a website or anywhere else for that matter does NOT mean the pics are in the public domain for anyone to use FOC or without permission.

Image and information theft is however a real problem which is why I so rarely post pics nowadays and when I do, I overwrite them. It's also why our own sites have the right click function disabled. Even that doesn't stop the theft but it does make things harder for the thieves.

A good example of how posting images not giving any rights can be found on Google images. They regularly help themselves to images on the net but if you ask them to remove them from the Google library, they will do so without any argument.

Another good example was the www.ixixi.com scam that happened a few months ago. They scraped the entire net of virtually every image they could find and then posted them on their site and offered them for use free of copyright...... and said please contact us if this is your image and you do own copyright.

As far as I understand it, the scam was mostly about bandwidth theft and possibly ID theft. If you contacted them, they had your details and if you didn't, they had your images.

Because the thefts were illegal they were closed down very quickly but not before they had cloned the site to other sites and that cloning allowed them to carry on for some considerable time..... I'm glad to say though that as far as I know, they're all closed down now..... but I'll bet they made millions before they were closed down.

FWIW, I think the scam originated in Nigeria but I could be wrong.

Or how about if it's photoshopped to remove you from the pic and insert someone else who then claims the trophy is theirs?

I don't know or care enough to comment on individual cases except my own but usually the copyright is owned by the photographer unless other arrangements have been made in writing to the contrary.

There's also the fact that people use images because they misunderstand the rules but these people will usually remove them once made aware of the real situation.

FWIW, I don't particularly try to sell my images but do sell them to mags/books etc sometimes and they can be sold for one edition of a mag for example for about US$500 a pop.... multiply that over the year and it can be a reasonable amount of money even at my limited quality images.

Without copyright, that money would be lost to me.

There's also the fact that I just f**king hate theft and thieves of any kind.

Hell, I even get the dog when one of our gardeners steals a mango.... if he asks, it's not a problem at all but if he steals it, I'll tie him to a tree for leopard bait if I get the chance.

Steve, how many mangos did you end up with?

Just one as you well know you piss taking bastard!

I'll be filing charges for grand theft mango and if I catch any of the them red handed, I'll tie them to a tree for leopard bait!

This is interesting. I used a booking agent in the States who turned out be huge crooks.Our association ended last year. Now they have all MY trophy pics on their web-site and just ignore the requests of taking them down. They have since been kicked out of SCI and DSC and blasted on the Hunting Report and African hunting .com......all good news, but our pictures, and my face are still all over their web-site!!!!!

There is a lot of reasons why someone should not take pictures on the internet and post them somewhere for personal gain WITHOUT permission.....IMO in any case!

quote:

and my face are still all over their web-site

No wonder they got kicked out of both SCI and DSC

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
I don't know or care enough to comment on individual cases except my own but usually the copyright is owned by the photographer unless other arrangements have been made in writing to the contrary.

Dead on, Steve.

As someone intimately concerned and familiar with copyright laws, NO ONE may use one's photos anywhere without permission regardless of where the OWNER uses them first.

BUT...be aware this only applies to images taken/owned by the PHOTOGRAPHER. It does not include images of someone with his trophies that were taken by someone else with his or her camera.

So if a PH/guide takes photos with HIS camera, he owns the rights to those images whether you are in them or not, and the fact you posed for them usually means using them commercially to promote his business will pass legal muster.

In contrast, photos taken of you WITHOUT your knowledge and then used commercially MIGHT constitute illegal usage, depending on the invasion of privacy circumstances.

Storage sites on the Web such as Photobucket will usually honor a person's ownership if he can prove ownership and go about appealing in the proper manner.

How do I know?

Because I recently had to do just that when someone on AR copied one of my pix from a post here and uploaded to his PB account -- twice -- and then posted them here after I had deleted them from my original post. The second time he did a bit of cropping, thinking that would change something. It doesn't.

PB removed both images promptly at my request.

This is the original message I sent to Photobucket, and the reply from PB is pasted below it.

________________________________________________

2 You represent and warrant that: (i) you own the Content posted by you on or through the Photobucket Services or otherwise have the right to grant the license set forth in this section, (ii) the posting and use of your Content on or through the Photobucket Services does not violate the privacy rights, publicity rights, copyrights, contract rights, intellectual property rights or any other rights of any person, and (iii) the posting of your Content on the Site does not result in a breach of contract between you and a third party. You agree to pay for all royalties, fees, and any other monies owing any person by reason of Content you post on or through the Photobucket Services.



7.1 Photobucket may reject, refuse to post or delete any Content for any or no reason, including Content that in the sole judgment of Photobucket violates this Agreement or which may be offensive, illegal or violate the rights of any person or entity, or harm or threaten the safety of any person or entity. Photobucket assumes no responsibility for monitoring the Photobucket Services for inappropriate Content or conduct. However, on both free and PRO accounts, and regardless of whether the Content is public or private, Photobucket may choose to monitor such Content at any time, in its sole discretion. If at any time Photobucket chooses to monitor the Photobucket Services, Photobucket nonetheless assumes no responsibility for the Content, no obligation to modify or remove any inappropriate Content, and no responsibility for the conduct of the User submitting any such Content.



As per your Terms of Use shown above, the following is an infringement of my copyright:



http://i3.photobucket.com/albu...XXXXX/windowsash.jpg


The photobucket user, XXXXXX, does not own or have my permission to upload/use this photo for any purpose. If you need to see the original, hi-res. image, which I own, I can attach it to a subsequent e-mail. Please remove it immediately.


As requested, the following statements are included:

* "I hereby state that I have a good faith belief that the disputed use of the copyrighted material is not authorized by the copyright owner, its agent, or the law (e.g., as a fair use)."


* "I hereby state that the information in this Notice is accurate and, under penalty of perjury, that I am the owner, or authorized to act on behalf of the owner, of the copyright or of an exclusive right under the copyright that is allegedly infringed."



Tony Mandile

DBA Tony Mandile Photos

XXXXXXXXXX.

Glendale, AZ 85301

623-846-XXXXX


CC: Van Bettancourt (attorney)


__________________________________________

Hi Tony Mandile,

Thank you for your request. Photobucket removed the content located at the following link(s): http://i3.photobucket.com/albu...XXXXX/windowsash.jpg

which request was based on your stated belief that such content infringes your copyrights.

As you may be aware, Photobucket.com is a user-generated content site, and Photobucket does not itself select the content or files available through its service. Rather, all files or content are uploaded by individual users, and Photobucket has limited control over the content its users may choose to share. Photobucket merely stores and transmits the files users choose to upload. Nevertheless, Photobucket respects copyright laws and expects its users to do the same.

Photobucket's removal of the content as set forth herein was made in a good-faith attempt courteously to comply with your request based on the information provided. It should not be taken as an admission or acknowledgment of any kind, and Photobucket expressly reserves all rights at law or in equity.

Should you have any questions about this matter, please contact Photobucket's Designated Copyright Agent:


Heather Dana
Designated Copyright Agent
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http://photobucket.com
PO Box #13003
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abuse@photobucket.com

Grand thief MANGO is that a capital crime!!!!!!! or what.

It will be if I catch the light fingered bastard!

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Just one as you well know you piss taking bastard!

Bastard? As far as I am able to ascertain, my parents were wedded before my conception. This could be trouble in the land.

Steve and Tony have it right. The photographs taken by the individual are protected by copyright. Same thing goes for writing. Copyright extends from the moment pen touches paper. Copyright notice is not required to have valid copyright. Trust me on this one... Copyright law is very powerful law.