I went out Deer hunting with a 50 BMG rifle and 750 grain HPBT hunting ammo. After setting up on a hill and ranging everything around, I found a spot that was 750m into the edge of a nice valley. Teaming with all kinds of white tails I set upon my perch and waited.

Wednesday 30 Nov 05 at 0836hrs.. a shot rang out and at 710m a not bad white tail buck fell victim to a 50BMG round. Bellow are the pictures.



Shot was placed just infront of the hind legs at the spine.



It was a spinal shot just infront of the hind quarters. It did not do that much damage. Unfortunatly it did not die right away and needed a 30-06 at close range to finish it. BTW a 30-06 did more damage than the 50 BMG did.

Well for the ones that wanted to know here are some autopsy photo's (sort of ).

50BMG entrance wound, the size of your finger. Some 2 1/2- 3 inches of bruising around the area.



Exit wound on other side. 2 inch hole + 2-4 inches of bruising around hole.



And the 30-06 exit wound..... Just messy... exited on the front shoulder. Approx. 6-8 inches of messed up meat.

Congrad's, very nice buck. My friend took a small 8pt with his 50 bmg this past monday,Pa first day deer season.A little over 500yd's. Was set up to shoot at least 1000,but we just had to see what that 750gr bullet would do to a whitetaill so he took the first shot that came along.Hit right behind the front shoulder, same size entrance and exit hole.Deer droped right now.We both thought our 125gr muzzy's did more meat damage***************ogo

Love to hear of long range success - but dont like the fact that this is the second AR post I've read this evening with a common theme.

In both cases the animal was still alive by the time our hunters had packed up their shooting location - and drove 5-700m to the the beast. Wonder how long that took?

Would far prefer to hear of a three hundred metre shot that was perfectly placed - as opposed to a 710m attempt that missed point of aim - by a foot and a half.

Problems down to doping wind - trigger control or a moving animal? Matters not - end result is the same.

Pardon me being a sanctimonious git - but please get it right on paper - before going to a fine animal like your whitetail.

My feeling is that unless you can hit that 20cm target, first shot - every shot, you are shooting beyond the capabilities of either weapon or shooter.

Note that I am a shooter, a supporter of accurate long range shooting and just as fallable as the next.

Helmet on and standing by for incoming!

Rgds Ian

I agree with IanF. This probably goes along with all the threads on "long range hunting" vs "long range shooting". Just because you have a gun that can shoot 1000 yards does not mean you should hunt at that distance.

I used to think it was ok but your pictures have convinced me otherwise. With a .50 cal, that deer should have dropped dead in his tracks, and not required a finishing shot. It is, IMHO, unreasonable to shoot an animal at 750+. There are just to many varibles such as wind and game movement.

This deer was hit poorly and almost gut shot. If you want to shoot 1000 yards, stick to the matches and tournaments.

You are missing something: respect for the game you hunt.

Here now I must make comment.

IanF - you must not be a hunter. Even a well placed heart shot on a deer does not kill it instantly. I have had deer run 100+m after a heart shot before it dropped.

Do not get me wrong, I am all for the ethical and humane hunting of animals to prevent unnecessary suffering. This animal was taken and dispatched with as much speed and as minimum suffering as I could provide.

GA Deer Hunter - I also agree that there are numerious variables and to take an animal at that distance is difficult. As such, I will most likely rethink doing it again.

DO NOT however typecast me by thinking you know what type of hunter I am.

quote:

You are missing something: respect for the game you hunt.

quote:

With a .50 cal, that deer should have dropped dead in his tracks, and not required a finishing shot.

See my first comment.

I have seen less ethical hunters shoot game and leave it because it was not "trophy material"

my 2 cents

You are right. I should not "type cast" you. You are probably a normal guy and a good hunter. Now that you have done and will think twice before doing it again, you probably have some sense of ethics and responibility.

Perhaps "dropped in his tracks" was not the right phrase. Certainly heart shot deer can run 100+ yards before they know they are dead. BUT, a .50 cal should not require a follow up shot, regardless if the animal dies instantly or runs 100 yards.

MS

Apologies, should have mentioned that I do hunt as well as shoot.

Fully aware that an animal can run 100m without heart and with lungs shredded. Difference is, it has received a lethal hit - is dead on its feet and will drop as soon as the oxygen supply to the brain ceases.

A deer shot thru the loins may well be paralyzed and unable to run, may well be slowly bleeding out from internal heomorage - but I fancy it is as unlikely as you intending that as a point of aim!

It was not where you would have chosen to hit the animal - of that I am sure. Having realized the animal was alive, I'm sure you did not dawdle on your way to put it out of pain.

In this case, the distance involved undoubtedly caused the point of impact - as well as delaying the humane despatch of the beast. Both points are not ideal or to be proud of IMO.

Congratulations on a fine rifle, a great deer - and a well written account. Please don't take these comments as being anything other than my opinion - however, I dont think it makes for good press for our sport or image as humane hunters.

Keep well.

Ian

quote:

Originally posted by GA DEER HUNTER:
You are right. I should not "type cast" you. You are probably a normal guy and a good hunter. Now that you have done and will think twice before doing it again, you probably have some sense of ethics and responibility.

Perhaps "dropped in his tracks" was not the right phrase. Certainly heart shot deer can run 100+ yards before they know they are dead. BUT, a .50 cal should not require a follow up shot, regardless if the animal dies instantly or runs 100 yards.

A 50 BMG is not a death ray, please understand that, there are varifiable accounts of soldiers receiving several (not 1 with an hunting type bullet) close range hits from 50 caliber type weapons to center of mass and surviving to fight another day, same can be said for smaller calibers and given the numbers of deer moose and other animals surviving good well placed hits from suitable calibers and even when heavies are used for light game, "Dead Right There" does not always apply.

Ask anyone who hunts Cape buffalo and Elephant etc, how many times a well placed kill shot with suitable heavy, has still resulted in the need for follow up shots, because the animal in question refused to succumb, ie it didn't read the book, so to speak.

Just because a caliber has killing power to spare, doesn't mean that the animal in question is going to drop dead instantly every time, even with perfect shot placement, it is just one of those uncontrolled variables, that exist.

A whitetail deer is a long way from a cape buffalo or an elephant. I have never seen a heart or lung shot whitetail require a follow up shot. The deer may run 25 to 200 yards, but he will not require a follow up shot.

Besides, I rephrased to say that a deer shot with a .50 cal should not require a follow up shot. I understand perfectly well that each animal reacts differently when shot and that they can travel 100+ yards even when they have been lethally hit.

Obviously, distance was a factor and played a role in the poor shot placement.

missing_something,

quote:

Shot was placed just infront of the hind legs at the spine

But, where were you aiming?

quote:

Originally posted by GA DEER HUNTER:
A whitetail deer is a long way from a cape buffalo or an elephant. I have never seen a heart or lung shot whitetail require a follow up shot. The deer may run 25 to 200 yards, but he will not require a follow up shot.

Besides, I rephrased to say that a deer shot with a .50 cal should not require a follow up shot. I understand perfectly well that each animal reacts differently when shot and that they can travel 100+ yards even when they have been lethally hit.

Obviously, distance was a factor and played a role in the poor shot placement.

The reason, I was using Cape Buffalo and Elephant as examples was in relation to the relative killing power of the cartridges involved, of which the heavies have a lot to spare, and if a perfect shot can still require a second or third to anchor the animal in question, just because the round has the power does not make it an instant killer, even with perfect shot placement.

Yes I think distance was a factor, when one considers that a 700 grain + bullet takes just under a second (.954xxx sec give or take) to travel 700 meters at an intial velocity of 2900 fps, in that time frame a half step or shuffle step by the deer can turn a good hit into a miss or a lower quality hit.

My dad shot a deer about 10 years ago that obviously had something wrong with it and turned it into a local DNR fully intact and he heared afterwards it only had 1 functioning lung, the other having been destroyed by a rifle bullet, that had come in on an angle, front quartering shot, the bullet was found encased in growth near the intestines and I think it was a .303 150 grainer, probably Imperial or CIL ammunition given the area.

I don't place alot of faith in 1 shot 1 kill when big game animals are the quarry in question and have been known to place a second and sometimes a third shot into a deer or moose or elk (when situation permitted), even when I was positive, I had a good hit with the first... I have also not lost any of the animals I have shot at either.

Now in the place of missing_something, I would have probably fired again, making sure of the deer, if visual inspection had indicated that the animal was not fully down, but I wasn't there, now was I.

I was aiming at the heart when the shot was taken. The rifle scope was set at 750m hence the high location of the hit. I ranged the shot after at 710m. I saw the deer go down instantly, but it was in low bush which obscured it and did not allow for a second shot or I would have finished it. From where I was it looked like a heart shot because the deer went down right away and I did not see it move. I went immediately to check and found that it was still alive when I arrived, my buddy took it at close range with a 30-06 to finish it.

Again, there are numerous factors to take into consideration when long distance shooting, not to mention safe area's beyond. I spent a lot of time making sure the area was safe and only taking the shot when the Deer was in the safe area.

I would have preferred a "quick kill" but that was not to be. I posted this because I wanted to dispel a few myths about the .50 BMG. I am aware that it was not an IDEAL shot and that it does not show the Humane Hunter in a good light either. I was not about to shoot another one to improve or show an ideal shot placement. It was a real world shot that I wish I could have done better.

Agree with Maltese Falcon here; the only real lesson I would take had I not already thought of it is to shoot again at that range to confirm a second good hit. Just because an animal is down doesn't mean it's dead but...

How many of us have waited the precribed 15 minutes before following an animal that ran out of sight after a hard hit to allow it to bed down and bleed out only to have it jump it up alive and run again?

Does that mean waiting is a wrong headed strategy or less than ethical? I think not.

This problem happens to ethical hunters for a number reasons other than 750 meters.

Live and learn. Just pop it again next time before you get up to retreive it.

missing_something,

Don't take anything I said as condemnation of you or your hunt, I am quite sure that you did do everything possible to make it work.

I am glad you had a good hunt and while the end result was not quite what you wanted, chalk it up to expereince and strive for better next time.

Kind regards.

There is no doubt that whitetails are tough critters and can definitely live to see another day on a less than perfect hit. That is why we as hunters should strive for good shots and good shot placement on the first shot. A lot can happen in one second. Missing_something said he was aiming for the heart. Maybe the deer took a step foward the instant he pulled the trigger resulting in a bad hit.

I'm just saying it seems to be too unpredictable to take good quality shots at long range. There is no doubt that it can be done. I just don't think it is a good idea to do it.

I can't say much as I have never shot at anything at 700m nor do I own a 50 caliber.

That being said I don't see much difference in MS just trying to push the envelope for himself.

I do some part time guiding here in WY for Antelope and Deer and many hunters from the East come out here to the wide open country to see just how long a shot they can take.

At 710m a foot off isn't too bad. I see dorks come out here at at 300 yards blow the leg off some poor Deer!

It looks like everyone is behaving themselves well in their postings which is the best things we can do for the hunting sport, being reasonable.

Chalk all this up to a lesson learned.

By the way, nice looking Deer.

quote:

Originally posted by GA DEER HUNTER:
There is no doubt that whitetails are tough critters and can definitely live to see another day on a less than perfect hit. That is why we as hunters should strive for good shots and good shot placement on the first shot. A lot can happen in one second. Missing_something said he was aiming for the heart. Maybe the deer took a step foward the instant he pulled the trigger resulting in a bad hit.

I'm just saying it seems to be too unpredictable to take good quality shots at long range. There is no doubt that it can be done. I just don't think it is a good idea to do it.

Unfortuantely, long range for a lot of hunters is 300 yards and boy are alot of those muffed, by blown off legs, and other poor quality hits and I would bet that a great many of them probably never fired more than 2 or 3 shots prior to hunting season, a thing that that to me is a greater disgrace than ultra long range shooting/hunting in of itself.

By all accounts missing_something did the needed research and obviously practiced, because I can assure you hitting a deer sized target at ranges beyond 400 meters is an excersice in skill and doing it at distances of 700 meters with no practice at all, taking into account wind, angle of shot, target , mirage and other factors inherent in ultra long range shooting, would just about be impossible.

So, what it comes down to is interpretation and comfort zone and skill.

The damage from the .50 bmg (exit hole)would probally have been the same size as the entery if the bullet had not hit the spine.Thanks for the post.It is great to see a big 50 being used for hunting.I live in IL agaist the law to hunt deer with rifle.Shotgun,muzzleloader,pistol only.I have seen guys do much worse then your 700 yards,at 50 yards.at least the deer was found and dispatched fairly quick,and we all learned from your experience.

You are right. A lot of hunters could not hit a deer a 300 yards. They don't practice at those ranges and are not proficient shots at anything over 100 yards.

Consider this...What if I had showed these pictures and said look at the deer I shot at 300 yards with my .300 WIN MAG? Eveybody here would say:

1. You're using too much gun
2. You don't know how to shoot
3. You don't know your rifle
4. Go practice at the range some more

So, no matter what the individual comfort level and skill, we should all be held to the same standards. We should not just shoot to see if we can hit something.

Also, I do not have a .50 cal nor have I ever shot one. I do not know how much "skill" it takes to shoot 750 yards. I am assuming that 1000 yards with a .50 cal is like 300 yards with a .30 cal. Please correct me if I am out of line on this. I really don't know.

Actually I wouldn't, because I am familiar with the uncontrolled variables of hunting and have had a perfect shot on a buck turn into a too far back hit on a doe that jumped in the way as I was pulling the trigger, I have been there and had it happen.

Shooting at distances beyond 400 meters is a skill(as well as shooting out to 400 meters) and the rifle/caliber/optics help.

Shooting an M33 load 700 grain bullet MV 2900 fps effc bc .67
the bullet will take .9611 seconds to travel 700 meters and drift 15 inches in a 10 mph crosswind and if you have a tail or head wind the point of impact can change +-.83 inches, never mind the mirage effect will have as you are looking thru a scope of 10X or higher magnification (the target may actually appear to be where it isn't optical illusion). Then you have the mean accuracy of the rifle and ammunition to account for and breathing and trigger control and ability of the shooter. Note: theoretical kinetic energy is 4304 ft lbs at 700 meters

Nope Ultra long range shooting is a skill game and it takes a lot of serious practice, both in trigger time and preperation and a proper weapons platform.

edited due to numbers being transposed...my bad.

4300 ft-lbs is a ton of energy...wow.
If you don't mind, help me out with the basics. I searched the net but couldn't find anything usefull.
What range is your zero set at?
What is the approximate bullet drop at each 100 yards past zero?
What is the energy out to 1000 yards?

quote:

Originally posted by Maltese Falcon:
.....

Shooting an M33 load 700 grain bullet MV 2900 fps effc bc .467
the bullet will take .9611 seconds to travel 700 meters and drift 25 inches in a 10 mph crosswind and if you have a tail or head wind the point of impact can change +-.83 inches
.....

Maltese,
I would think that a "750 grain HPBT hunting ammo" would have a much better BC than the .467 you mentioned!?

Was using data that I have and without knowing the bullet maker and profile and loaded velocity, I can't work up any data for it. but an Amax has a BC of 1.090 for 750 grains.

My zero was 1000 yards
hold over for

1100 49.0 inch 18 klick .25 per flight time 1.8178 sec

1200 111.5 inch 37 klick FT 2.0763 sec

1300 189.1 inch 58 klicl FT 2.3507 sec

Theoretical energy:

1000 2602 ftlbs

1100 2235 ftlbs

1200 1968 ftlbs

1300 1769 ftlbs

How high is the bullet at 500 and 750?

Hold under for M33

400 yards -81.0

500 yards -87.6

600 yards -87.4

700 yards -79.3

800 yards -062.9

900 yards -036.8


Oh and hold over for 2400 yards with 1000 yard zero is 2613 inches and it takes a bullet 6.1649 seconds to get there with an theoretical energy rating of 730 ft lbs

quote:

Shooting an M33 load 700 grain bullet MV 2900 fps effc bc .467

M33 ball projectile weighs 647 grains, B.C. =.67.

quote:

Maltese,
I would think that a "750 grain HPBT hunting ammo" would have a much better BC than the .467 you mentioned!?

Most certainly exceeds .7, probably >.8. Hornady claims 750 grain AMAX B.C. is 1.05, but I get best results using .95 for the B.C. data when using Pejsa ballistics software (Palm) at the range.

This article has been out there quite a while, but it is very pertinent to this discussion. Long range shooting & Hunting (Lilja)

Thanks for posting goneballistic, excellent article, a must read.

quote:

This article has been out there quite a while, but it is very pertinent to this discussion. Long range shooting & Hunting (Lilja)

Boy do I feel sheepish, just consulted log book and yep transposed number in ballistic program, never go by memory.

Thanks

Corrected errors in post and this time used log book.

Taking shots on game at long ranges falls into a very grey and fuzzy area in the ethics department. A lot of folks seem to feel that because they have a rifle capable of very long ranges then they too are also capable of making such a shot. There are so many variables involved in taking shots at long ranges that they are completely out of the capabilities of most hunters and shooters. One thing that must be taken into account is the rifles/ammo's capabilities in relation to the shooters. For most it falls into less than 300 yds. For some it is significantly farther. And even under the absolute best of conditions things still go wrong. I watched a buddy of mine who is an excellent shot fire at an elk at 60 yards resting his rifle over his pack from the prone position. It should have been a 100% sure thing. But he didnt see the 1/2" dead branch 15 yards in front of him. It was enough to deflect the bullet right into the bulls guts. It was a very long afternoon tracking the elk through snow to get a finishing shot.

My point is that no matter how good the shooter or the equipment bad things still happen that are out of our control. For that very reason I choose to minimize those risks by shooting at ranges well below what my capabilities really are. And sometimes stuff still happens.

Personally I have a bad taste in my mouth about using 50 bmg's for hunting. Several years Idaho had a very bad situation develop. Some very slimy individuals (notice I did not use the word hunters) were using 50's to take elk at extremely long ranges. More times than not the animal was wounded, gutshot and lost. And many many times the bullet would travel through several animals. I personaly put down a few animals that were wounded by these slob shooters. It was sickening to see the waste, abuse, and slaughter of our natural resources. This eventually led to a ban on rifles over the weight of 16 pounds if I rmember the numbers correctly and the basically banned the 50's.

I dont in any way shape or form blame the rifle or the caliber for some slobs actions. But after witnessing and hearing some of these individuals I made a the conclusion that long range capable rifles/calibers do indeed induce a false sense of a shooters capabilities and contribute to them taking shots they never should have.

All this boils down to one simple thing: A hunter needs to know the capabilities of him and his equipment under all hunting conditions and not exceed those limitations. In my mind to do so would be grossly unethical. And sometimes even when we are well within our limits bad things will still happen.

I love the fact that this site allows alternate viewpoints to be debated - normally in an adult and productive manner.

It really does assist and broaden my understanding of the various facets of our sport.

rgds Ian

MS,

I'm glad you were able to harvest the deer. But, you are seriously "Missing Something"...that being...knowing how your rifle shoots at ranges and in wind conditions and / or your shooting skills.

The idea using the .50 simply to see what the "Damage" would be really doesn't seem right. This is not a controlled clinical study.....this is an animal..it deserves to be harvested quickly. I have observed carcasses in the field of animals that have been fired upon from extreme ranges because the gent wanted to push the envelope. Poor shots result in wounded - lost animals and that's plain wrong.

The .50 BMG has become very refined in many rifles and can (in the right hands) yield tremendous accuracy at long range. But one must practice and know exactly how the projectile reacts at range and in certain conditions.

I hope the next time you post something like this.....It will be a picture of proper shot placement...so that the animal didn't have to suffer.

Wayne

WayneJ,

Did you read the whole thread and did you understand it?

Hunting, has uncontrolled variables and it looks like that is what happened here, based upon what details missing_something provided, he did it right to the best of his ability.

To the best of his/their ability to determine it, the deer was down, apparently hit exactly where the bullet was aimed and since based on the picture, the deer was down in low scrub making further observation hard or impossible and with no apparent further movement from the deer, they moved in to retrieve the it.

Upon arrival they find that the shot was not quite on the mark, which unfortuantely can happen just as often in woods hunting where you are tracking a deer that you believed to have shot behind the shoulder, or that shot on that large buck just after daylight on the edge of a corn field and you find that you hit high and further back and the deer requires a finisher.

ALL OF US, have had a hunt where we did everything right , and it still went wrong and given what I know about ultra long/intermediate range shooting, I think your comment:

"But, you are seriously "Missing Something"...that being...knowing how your rifle shoots at ranges and in wind conditions and / or your shooting skills"

is off the mark, given how shooting at that range takes skill to hit a deer size target and if you think a novice can take a 50 BMG caliber weapon and stroll out and come close to hitting a deer at 710 meters, without a better than average grasp of the finer details of ultra long range shooting and trigger time, then you better think again, because I have certainly not seen it.

Qoute:

"I hope the next time you post something like this.....It will be a picture of proper shot placement...so that the animal didn't have to suffer."

Can you say all your hunting shots have produced instant kills, requiring, but 1 shot and never a finisher that your bullet was perfectly placed every time, that the game animal in question did not suffer, even once?

I can't and I have been big game hunting for over 20 years. I am proud to say that I have not lost a big game animal nor has any in the party that I might be hunting with, But there has been times where an otherwise perfect shot, wasn't and I am realistic enough to know that, there are variables in hunting that sometimes we just can't control and we have to chalk it up to experience and learn from it, which obviously missing_something has and for that matter so have we.

Pefrection is to strive for, but a realist knows it can never be attained.

Yes, there are variables involved with hunting. One practices at ranges one expects to hunt. I, for example, spend several hours and days shooting at long range...varmints. I know exactly what 10, 15, 20 even 30 mph wind does to my projectiles in excess of 710m. If one expects to shoot/hunt at long ranges....one should be well acquainted with ones rifle, ammo and shooting conditions. One should understand the effects of altitude, temp and humidity on ones projectile....at long range. Yes, there are variables but one does not have to walk out in the field naively.

When I hunt large game....I make sure the shot is well within my means to make an accurate, clean kill. That does Not necessarily mean they drop on the spot. However, shooting an animal in the hind quarter cannot be considered a clean kill. The shot disabled the animal...and eventually it would die. But all hunters I know....make sure all the "Variables" are in their favor.....or they simply do not take the shot...it's as simple as that. I also set up targets at the ranges I expect to shoot at the day before I go big game hunting. The weather and altitude are very close to my hunting conditions......so I know what my rifle is capable of. I also use a lasr range finder before I make a shot.

I simply think it's wrong to stroll out in the field with an attitude of experimentation. I think a target posted at the 710m would have been in order before attempting the shot. The .50 BMG certainly has the capability of making a clean kill at distances much greater....but it takes practice....other than the hunt.

This is not meant to inflame people. I enjoy long range shooting and hate to see bad outcomes. I simply want gents to think seriously before pulling the trigger...especially long range shots on big game. Where I hunt, ranchers refuse to let "Strangers" hunt their property because of all the botched shots. They simply do not want to see the animals wasted because they wonder off seriously injured and die without being taken by the hunter.

Wayne

As an avid whitetail hunter first, and an accomplished .50 BMG shooter second, I say BRAVO Missing Something (MS)....
Yes, the shot wasn't "perfect" but I HAVE seen worse taken on deer with a .30-06 at 100 yards! As far as I am concerned I see no ethical question with taking shots on game at TWICE the distance that "MS" did, with the proper "tools & SKILL" of course. As long as it can the long shot be accomplished with AT LEAST 90% "surity", on each and every shot, then have at it! If you can't hit a 10" circle (kill zone size of the N. American Whitetail) with at least 90% of your shots at WHATEVER range you decide to shoot at, then you have no business taking THAT shot on that animal, PERIOD. Whether your "personal range limit" is 100 yards, 300 yards, or even 1760 yards (1 mile!) is irrelivant. That "limit" is different for everyone, and every "ethical" hunter needs to know their own limit through PRACTICE.
The real problem lies with guys that hunt with rifles that have the ability to "reach out" but they never PRACTICE at any long ranges, so they really don't know their personal affectiveness to make an "ethical" kill at any given "long" range.
Come on guys, this is a nice deer, taken at a LONG range and the desparity in accuracy is not that bad to be crucifying MS for it.
One thing MS, you should look into the Barnes 647g X bullet for the .50 (their catalog #51064). I don't know what projo you were shooting on this deer but I think if you would have hit him with this "X" bullet, you would have "knocked him over" a bit better...
With a 100 yard zero (at sea level; standard temp & pressure) with a 2800fps muzz. vel.; at 725 yards the Barnes would have 17.5 MOA drop; at 1000y it has 29.5 MOA of drop; at 1500y it has 62.0 MOA "drop". Energy at even 1500y for this projo is still 1737 ft-lbs and velocity is still a healthy 1100fps; flight time of 2.6662 seconds at 1500...
Part of the equasion in shooting game at these "extremes" also involves contemplating how much the animal will move during the projo's flight time... Just moving their head to look a different direction can make a "perfect" shot into a not so perfect one if they move at just the right time...
Everyone needs to know their own limits... MS, looks like you did you hmoework and I say WELL DONE!
How do you like your Steyr MS?... I am still waiting for my HS.50 to come into the country... I have fired those Steyrs out to 2000 meters and for "factory" ammo, the one I shot did pretty well...

PJS50,

I guess you have a better way with words. I agree with your analysis. Especially interms of practicing. I've seen too many guys buy belted magnums to go elk hunting and they take three practice shots and quit because they flinch etc. This often leads to a wounded (sic-failed harvesting) animal at some point.

I think it's important even for the simple things like learning where the trigger breaks and to practice follow through. At 710m...if his follow through was off....that could explain the difference in P.O.A and P.O.I.

Just want folks to consider the ramifications of long range shooting. Think seriously about it and make sure you're as ready as you can be.

Wayne

Maltese,

I reread your reply. Yes, I did read the original post. No, I have never required follow up shots...I guess you'd call me lucky. But, I invest in quality ballistic programs...which are installed in a laptop that I take with me on hunting trips. I enter the appropriate data...Temps, altitude etc...including muzzle velocity. I then print out my "Dope" and use it accordingly.

I don't think MS did everything he could have....and unfortunately the results speak for themself (Res-Ipsa-Loquitur). I trust you do everything you can to produce a clean, quick kill!

I'm not sure about your comment "given how shooting at that range takes skill to hit a deer size target and if you think a novice can take a 50 BMG caliber weapon and stroll out and come close to hitting a deer at 710 meters, without a better than average grasp of the finer details of ultra long range shooting and trigger time, then you better think again, because I have certainly not seen it." Are you suggesting that MS is a novice at long range shooting??? If so, what in God's name is he doing taking a shot with a .50 on a deer at 710m?? Again, With experience, it should be rather easy...as I stated...I shoot Prarie dogs at longer distances...but I practice!!! And "No" it isn't that difficult.

Wayne

quote:

This is not meant to inflame people. I enjoy long range shooting and hate to see bad outcomes. I simply want gents to think seriously before pulling the trigger...especially long range shots on big game. Where I hunt, ranchers refuse to let "Strangers" hunt their property because of all the botched shots. They simply do not want to see the animals wasted because they wonder off seriously injured and die without being taken by the hunter.

Wayne, I agree with you 100% That was partly my intent with this post. I practice quite a bit on the range with a variety of long range rifles. Even with computer generated data you still need to check it in the real world.

As for the ranging issue. I was on one side of a valley and had laser ranged a number of safe areas. On my primary area I ranged, I shot at the area to confirm my zero and drops. The next morning when I went and set up the weather was close to the same as the evening before. The area were I shot the deer was approx. 100m east of the location where I confirmed my zero. There was a plateau which was backed by bush after taking the, which at the time, I felt 100% confident in taking; I re-ranged the site, 40m short of my confirmed zero!

I could make 100's of excuses as to the shot location, but it doesn't change where it ended up, and I know it was not in the ideal location. I know what happened and will correct that in the future.

I wanted people’s opinions or I wouldn't have posted this hunt. I also want people to understand that there is a lot involved in Long range hunting, besides the ethical issues that are raised. I also want people to understand that the .50BMG isn’t the evil beast that it is made out to be or doesn't blow things to little pieces either.

I hope that everyone who reads this can take something away from it and learn from it (from both sides of the coin) and make their own decision as to whether long range hunting is good or bad or whether they should try it or not. If anything I hope that hunters out there will give hunting some deep thought about the ethics and complexity of this sport.

I hope this makes sense and you can understand my point of view.

my 2 cents...

Not what I said.

I was referring to your comment:

Quote:

"But, you are seriously "Missing Something"...that being...knowing how your rifle shoots at ranges and in wind conditions and / or your shooting skills"

My comment to this was:

Quote:

"is off the mark, given how shooting at that range takes skill to hit a deer size target and if you think a NOVICE ( added to clarify,which I donot think missing_something is) can take a 50 BMG caliber weapon and stroll out and come close to hitting a deer at 710 meters, without a Better than average grasp of the finer details of ultra long range shooting and Trigger time , then you better think again, because I have certainly not seen it."

We don't know missing_something's capabilities, but based upon what he has said and how he has stated it amongst other points in his post, I am sure that he is no novice, but your comment comes right out and calls him, more or less an inexperienced shooter, to which I commented as being off the mark, nothing more nothing less.

We weren't there and I think it unfair to condemn or castigate a shooter, who may very well have did everything right and had a variable pop up and turn a perfect shot into a less than desired one.

Hope that clarifies my position/post. One of the problems with the internet I think is trying to express oneself fully, which is much easier face to face

MS & Maltese,

Thank you for the clarification. I am very concerned that some "Lessor" experienced hunters with the inclination to take such a shot...might be prompted to do so. As you both have made clear....you understand the complexities involved and accept the responsibility for your shooting activities. I apologize for any misunderstanding...but in light of increasing pressure from antigun and antihunting groups....the threshold for defensive posture is lowered.

The .50 BMG rifle and round is something to marvel when used for long range...I simply want to ensure it is around for my son to enjoy!!

Regards,

Wayne

quote:

Originally posted by missing_something

I would have preferred a "quick kill" but that was not to be. I posted this because I wanted to dispel a few myths about the .50 BMG. I am aware that it was not an IDEAL shot and that it does not show the Humane Hunter in a good light either. I was not about to shoot another one to improve or show an ideal shot placement. It was a real world shot that I wish I could have done better.

I think it was a stunt, too, but at least he's got the ball$ to admit it-sort of.