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I will probably be in the market for a home-defense shotgun within the next year and I'm doing some research. I would like to get some input and opinions from you guys. Whatever I get, I want it to be based on a Remington 870 action. It needs to also be well under $1,000 total (even after any add-ons I decide to buy). I have looked at the new Desert Recon model. I'm not a big fan of the "digital camo" stock but I liked the fact that the barrel is powder coated. Prior to that.....I was really considering the 870 Marine, which is nickel plated. I'm not in any hurry.....just kicking tires. Do any of you have any advice for me? Aftermarket sights? Additional shell-holders? etc... Thanks. _______________________________________________________ Hunt Report - South Africa 2022 Wade Abadie - Wild Shot Photography Website | Facebook | Instagram | ||
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I think your choice of the Remington 870 is a good one. Two things I would recommend is a SureFire light, and a side saddle shell mount of the left side of the reciever. I personally prefer an 18" barrel. After that it is just a question on how much more you want to spend. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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I agree with NE 450 Get a factory Remington 870P Sysnthetic with: Wilson combat ghost ring rear and XS Front sights and +2 extension and Youth stock for shorter overall length easier to swing in confined spaces and for use with body armor. It can be ordered this way from the factory. My friend has one, it's very nice. Then get the Surefire Weapon light foreend 618FA and you are done. Total cost right around $1,050. Cold Zero | |||
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As to ammo, since I live in the country I keep the magazine tube loaded with buckshot, and the side saddle loaded with slugs. I keep a belt of shells with the SGN about 50/50 buck and slug. In the last month I have gone outside the house with my 870 twice... Once when I heard coyotes howling at night VERY CLOSE... Second when I shot a bobcat at 11:30M with a 223 rifle, out the window and it managed to go run @ 15 or so yards and I could not see where it had stopped. Usually I take an 18.5" Savage 20ga SXS double, with a SureFire Nitrolon taped to the barrels for night time "ranch" duties, but on these 2 occasions the 870 was handy.  DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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What do you guys think about tritium night sights (or possibly just front sight) on a shotgun? I've had them on 3 different handguns and I absolutely love them for low-light conditions. _______________________________________________________ Hunt Report - South Africa 2022 Wade Abadie - Wild Shot Photography Website | Facebook | Instagram | |||
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It should be front sight only for night sight, whether pistol, or shotgun. Cold Zero | |||
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I would look for a clean Rem 870 used riot or smooth bore slug gun. Replace mag spring and follower. Add pachmayr vindicator kit and install left side extra ammo carrier. Install a 2 rd mag ext. Secure a surefire P6 light with P61 lamp. Mount with flex ties to barrel/extended mag tube. First two rds #2 short mag lead, next 5 rds #1 buck. Slugs in ammo carrier. Yackman | |||
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Definitely disagree with this for pistols.....what is your reasoning behind it? _______________________________________________________ Hunt Report - South Africa 2022 Wade Abadie - Wild Shot Photography Website | Facebook | Instagram | |||
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Not to speak for Cold Zero, but at least some of the self defense gurus (notably including Nash Piazza who named his company on the principle) advise you to simply focus on the front sight and don't use your total attention on that perfectly aimed shot, thus losing all situational awareness. The theory being that in that high adrenaline and life changing seconds of a gunfight, you won't have the time or ability to make fully aimed shots the way you would when taking a deer. Merely focusing on the front bead or sight will get you very close and very fast without requiring total concentration on aiming. Try it sometime, and I think you'll see that within 20 ft or so, merely putting that front bead on target and then using good trigger habits quickly will get you within a few inches every time. | |||
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In the low light situation where you will have the need for night sights, how could you tell if you have the front sight lined up on the left of the two rear sight dots, or the right of the two rear sight dots, while fighting for your life? That is why Ken Hackathorn and Larry Vickers, both use and recomend one dot on the front sight and an all black rear. Larry also likes Heine straight 8's. Again because there is not chance of lining up the 3 dots incorrectly and then missing wide left, of right. As for I. Piazza, he is not even close to being in the same league as the above two veteran Specops warriors and veteran firearms instrs. Do I need to start posting links about I. Piazza and his various "issues" ? Let me know if I do. Piazza is an embarrassment to the firearms training industry. The only positive thing that is said about front sight, is that it is cheap, then again you get what you pay for. Anyone buy a condo there lately? ahahahah. Cold Zero | |||
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Many Happy Front Sight customers, have filed Class action Lawsuit against the Guru, who by the way has gotten Front Sight into Receivership. If he knows so much, how come the Guru is broke, with a line of customers he has defrauded ? Not the kind of person I would want to get training from. Front sight only, hahahah. LOL. http://www.gunweek.com/2005/piazza1110.html Cold Zero | |||
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Let's see Larry Vickers is former Delta, Piazza is a former Chiropractor, and we should be listening to him ? Let me know if you need me to post more links, there certainly is plenty of them. Here is another one. http://www.texasminutemen.org/...dex.php/t-13659.html Cold Zero | |||
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Please don't take me as a Piazza fanatic, and no, I don't have or plan on having a condo out there. lol One wrong click a couple of years ago, and I get mail from him every damn day. Just pointing out that the "front site" concept is well known. Piazza reminds me of a used car salesman who's also selling Scientology. Still, you can learn from anyone. | |||
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No, there is nothing to be learned from him, except, how not to conduct yourself & your business. "A 4 Weapon Combat Master " does this guy even have any combat expereience? Likely just seen combat, fighting with the people that he bilked trying to "combat" him to get their money back. He is a disgrace to the Firearms Training Industry.  I suggest you check into one of the many reputable schools, or taveling instructors out there. Dr. Piazza Sermen over..... Cold Zero | |||
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Well, I still disagree with this. I tried lining up the front sight to the left and right of my rear sights and it is extremely un-natural feeling.....so I highly doubt this would happen. I'm a very instinctive shooter, but I still like having both front and rear night sights on my 1911. For what it's worth, however, the gun I carry concealed (S&W M&P360) does only have a night sight on the front.....with a U-notch rear sight. It works very well. But while at home.....I open-carry a full size 1911 with front and rear night sights. Thanks for the advice so far guys.....anymore suggestions as far as shotguns go? _______________________________________________________ Hunt Report - South Africa 2022 Wade Abadie - Wild Shot Photography Website | Facebook | Instagram | |||
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Ken Hackathorn and Larry Vickers, argueably the two most sought after Firearms Instrs. on the planet, who train people, Police and Military units on a WORLDWIDE basis, think that it is an issue and that is why they DO NOT recomend the 3 dot system, for a tactial pistol. If there are two more expereinced Instrs in the Low Light arena than those two, I would like to know who they are. What is an "unnatural feeling" is for bullets to be flying in your direction, on the two way range, not the square range steril laboratory guys test theories out in, until you have tried lining up the sights, while under fire and the various effects that will have on you and the darkness, as well. How can you say that is unlikely to happen ? I am glad that you found that the Front night sight and all black rear sight, work well for you on your M. & P., it will work just as well on all weapons platforms. That is why they teach that. How many Low Light classes / training have you been through ? Cold Zero | |||
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Well maybe Eland Slayer should do a little test. Pick a dark night. Try to make a few precision head shots at say 15 yards with both guns. Then say at 5 yards do some high speed shots on 3 targets, a yard appart, again with both guns. Then repeat the same drills durring the day time, and compare the results, and give us your oinion of the difference in having a rear night sight. Yes I know the two guns are vastly different, but the day time shoot should give us a basis for comparison, and they are the 2 guns he has. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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Well, I have never been to Front Sight but I'm going to call "Bullshit" to all of you. You see, I shoot Skeet, and in Skeet you don't look at the front sight at all! You look at the target, and, if the gun fits you properly, when you check the sights, they are right on! So, knowing they are right on if the gun is shouldered properly there is no need to look at them! Just look at the target. Who would have thunk it? And, BTW, the target is small and moving and 20 yards away! Peter. Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong; | |||
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Another valid point. I am also a somewhat avid clay shooter. I used to shoot sporting clays competitively for 6 years.....but not anymore. My competition gun has had lots of custom fitting done and it is like an extension of my body. I would imagine the best method to use for defense handguns would be to PRACTICE with whatever you have. When I shoot one of my pistols.....I don't have to consciously "line up" my sights. I just condition myself to bring the gun up to the same place everytime.....and the sights are always aligned properly. In my opinion.....this is more important than front sight only vs. front and rear sight. _______________________________________________________ Hunt Report - South Africa 2022 Wade Abadie - Wild Shot Photography Website | Facebook | Instagram | |||
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Given what Peter says I see no need for a $1000 combat shotgun. If you ever have to go in front of a jury you will want your shotgun to look as innocuous as possible. I opted for a $175 used Mossberg because I prefer the tang safety. | |||
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Mike, actually, Yeah! I have a Rem 1000 (?) semi auto, with the fiberglass stock and skeet chokes. With #3 buck or whatever, I would not hesitate to use it in a self defense situation. I have no need for a $1000 combat shotgun. I see them as a toy to be used in 3 gun competitions for example. I do not compete in those. Having said that, I do have a race gun, just in case I "get the urge" again! People use semi auto handguns in IPSC and IDPA, what's wrong with a semi auto shotgun? Note that I do not claim to be a shotgun expert. I just use them to shoot skeet. I also don't have flashlights or lasers bolted on my 223 Semi autos or any of my handguns for that matter! I know I am not doing my bit for the economy, but I am keeping my money for something else! Peter. Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong; | |||
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I think this is probably good advice..... _______________________________________________________ Hunt Report - South Africa 2022 Wade Abadie - Wild Shot Photography Website | Facebook | Instagram | |||
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Eland, I have 2 pistol grip 12 ga pumps that I carry in the car and truck for personal protection. The side saddle is the only modification that I have made. I have shot my whole life and do not seem to be recoil sensitive/shy, but I have to tell you that the pistol grip pumps kick like hell--even when practicing w/ dove loads. I would suggest a regular, maybe shortened buttstock. | |||
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Definitely going with a full-size regular stock.....never wanted anything else. It will strictly be for home-use, not in a vehicle. _______________________________________________________ Hunt Report - South Africa 2022 Wade Abadie - Wild Shot Photography Website | Facebook | Instagram | |||
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No it's not. When you find yourself without a reload, drop the hammer on a dark target you could not identify, or hang up in a doorway with a 28" skeet gun you'll see that "innocuous jury friendly shotguns" aren't near as important as actually surviving the fight and positively IDing your target. This is especially true for a guy who lives in one of the most lenient states in the country for deadly force and castle doctrine. Shotguns work great for self defense at home, at night, against an unknown number of attackers. Remove any one of those characteristics and you'd be better served with a carbine. Use the search function. This has been handled here before I think. | |||
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I fail to see the connection between a Skeet long gun with 28-32" barrel, shooting multiple projectiles at a target and a Pistol used in Defence with a 2-5" barrel, shooting one projectile, with a sight radius 6-16 times less than, that of your Skeet gun. Two totally different things. As for the look of the gun, I think what will count for a lot more to a jury, was whether you shot the Home Invader in the chest or the back, inside your home or outside and whether he was armed, or unarmed. Not whether the tactical shotgun had a Tritium front sight, or whether you made a bad shoot with your Skeet gun. Having a light on a Defensive firearm is a necessity. Cold Zero | |||
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Who said anything about a 28" skeet gun?? I have no intentions of buying anything with a barrel longer than 18"..... _______________________________________________________ Hunt Report - South Africa 2022 Wade Abadie - Wild Shot Photography Website | Facebook | Instagram | |||
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Cold Zero | |||
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Eland Slayer, I was addressing the BS flag on the field.
Cold Zero | |||
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Interesting discussion. I would not keep a shotgun specifically for home defense. I have grand children visiting all the time and I cannot conceive of a safe place to keep it. Perhaps you guys who do keep a shotgun for HD could advise? Sorry, I don't mean to hi-jack the thread. Having said that I do keep a handgun for home defense and do not keep a "tactical" light on it. I do have one handy, but it is for the left hand and is to be held as far away from me as possible! Cold zero, you are correct. I overspoke on the "bullshit" word. Perhaps: "I would beg to differ..." would have been more appropriate! I have a hard time imagining a shoulder fired weapon in my house with it's layout, given the hallways, rooms etc. And, I cannot imagine firing a weapon (shotgun or handgun) from the hip. Peter. Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong; | |||
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Peter, disagreeing is fine. Around here we need to work on keeping things civil. It is an interesting discussion. Consider a trigger lock or disabling the shotgun by removing a part from it, i.e. the bolt, slide, barrel, etc. You can also keep it unloaded, with the ammo nearby. A compact AR15 for home defence is hard to beat. Cold Zero | |||
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Peter, here's a couple thoughts regarding the keeping of a HD shotgun. Do you have a walk-in closet? How about a couple of pegs above the door. Grandkids have no business in your bedroom, let alone your closet. This way it's high out of reach, where they have no business being, but ready for you. If they are old enough to reach a gun that high, then you should have them trained by then. Trying to reassemble then load your shotgun during a home invasion is not very realistic. Eland, it sounds like you've done alot of shooting, so just think about all the strange things you've seen hunters do when they get buck fever. Under the stress of the hunt, we consistantly see hunters miss judge distance, miss easy shots, and sometimes, eject all their shells on the ground with out ever firing their gun. This is all without the deer shooting back. Now multiply that pucker factor by 100, make it at night, and you can begin to see how the unnatural and impossible become somewhat common. | |||
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It depends on your house as to which shotgun and configuration you use. If you have narrow hallways and multiple rooms that need to be covered at the same time, I would recommend a shorter youth type stock along with the 18" barrel you talk about. If you have plenty of room to move around then it doesn't matter. Remember that while you are moving and need to turn, the shotgun is either pointed up or down in a hallway and you need to get it back to level as soon as possible. If the stock is too long, it won't work. The other thing I would consider is a strobe light. I think the rest is not necessary. The strobe will put you at a tactical advantage with the vision of the perp looking into the strobe. As for night sights. I have to agree with some of the others...front only. Your eyes can not physically focus on three things, rear sight, front sight, and target. It is a physical impossibility. The rear sights serve as a distraction in a real situation. Try this one, if you can...get two airsoft guns (with appropriate safety equipment). Get a friend or your father to help. Stand, say 15-20 feet apart. Typical home defense distance or more. On any signal, you both get to draw and fire as soon as possible at each other for 10 seconds. After that, report to me honestly if you even used the sights, let alone moved. I will bet NO on each occaision. Why no to the movement..unless you practice moving, you will not do it. Let us know. Larry "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading" -- Thomas Jefferson | |||
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Just to be clear.....I was only gung-ho for the rear night sights on my 1911.....not a shotgun. Thanks for all the info guys. _______________________________________________________ Hunt Report - South Africa 2022 Wade Abadie - Wild Shot Photography Website | Facebook | Instagram | |||
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While a shotgun for Home defense is a good choice, I prefer an AR 15 Carbine for ME. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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I've seldom worried about having a 'home defense' gun, but when I have felt it prudent to have one available, it has always been a shotgun. Never felt a need for anything other than the Beretta A302 that I've shot thousands of rounds through over the last 28 or so years. It's a factory stock shotgun with a 26" IC barrel. No fancy sights or side saddle to hold more than the 3 shells it legally holds when I'm hunting. The stock is wood, scratched and part of the heel broken off. The metal is just blued, mostly worn and a bit rusted here and there, with the vent rib dented. That gun has become an extension of me over the years. Unless there were more than 1 bad guy in my house at the same time, it is extremely unlikely that there'd need to be more than 1 shot fired in self defense. I honestly don't have a need for anything more specific or fancy. | |||
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The problem IS, you just never know how many rounds will be required to save your bacon. While most of my shootings have been work related, [and that does influence my choice of guns and the number of rounds I like to have handy], there was one, where over 300 rounds were fired... Shotguns are very effective up close. I just like more bullets than a shotgun carries. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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Then keep a 50 round bandoleer with it.  | |||
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Actually I do have a 50 rounder that goes over the shoulder, but I prefer the 25 round belts as they are more secure on your body. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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