MADDNESS!
did not want to derail the post on steve irwin, so i thought i would start a new post, ...your comment about hunting crocs being a non event and no challage...i dont think you know what you are talking about, you are out of your depth
or have you been influenced by steve irwin???
daniel

i have seen enough croc's in the wild on trips to oz before and have seen plenty of footage on tv and not just stuff steve did and can't see where the challange in shooting one laying on the bank sunning them selves or swiming in the water is

maybe i missed some thing

you sound like you may have hunted them before so maybe you can tell us all how hard it realy is

Well Madness, It's a bit hard to explain, for me anyhow. If you'd read more widely YOU would know. Perhaps it's a bit like seeing a red deer in a zoo or tourist area, compared to stalking one in the wilds of NZ.

Crikey my kids have ridden on an elephant, so it would look like it's no trouble to shoot one.
And sometimes it probably isn't?

Now for me, I don't care how when or why, but I'd like to see our crocks thinned out, all the big ones in the wild.
People live up with them and continue to get "nabbed". Over population is no good for them or us.

I've had to swim with 'em and still shudder at the thought. The last person taken was a young native girl just getting some billy water from the creek. Now see if you can imagine what that was like.

i fully understand that croc numbers can get out of hand in places and when they become problem near where humans are then some thing needs to be done about it either culling or moving them

my point is where is the challange in hunting one i have seen them in the middle of no where when fishing apart from laying on the bank or swimming in the water where else to the hide out to make them so hard to hunt and stalk ?

Im keen to learn why hunting crocs is so difficult as well. Fill us in on the details of how its done M 98

Yep, I'd be keen to hear a bit about it M 98, it can't be that hard, they are only reptiles

sitting in the water may be easy to shoot but i bags not going in to collect it
greg

I havent hunted crocs(of course) but i used to sneak up on them when i spent 6 months in Karumba...those 6 months were often spent either fishing or pig hunting with my dogs(apologies to u know who) and often along croc infested creeks and the river itself and saw plenty of the bastards... now to put it bluntly shooting a croc these days "should" be no problem at all though in saying that when it was legal to shoot them before the advent of night shooting with a light, crocs had become a very wary reptile espec the biggies after years of hunting/shooting activities thus forcing the shooters way into the back country.. they certainly are not on my list of premium game species.A smart fella with a smart flat shooting calibre equipped with a suitable scope hitting one in the "walnut" when its sunbaking on a bank shouldnt be too hard eh?

maddness
its one thing to see a croc sunbacking on a mudflap, and shooting him, thats not a problem, but getting into position, and within range to place the shot so he stays where he was shot on the mud flap and there by not loosing him, is another story
i dont call lighting crocs at night hunting , thats just shooting, as is shooting them at long range and loosing them
daniel

so what do you class as long range ?
is there some kind of rule that says you have to stalk into within 5m or some thing ?

you can talk it up all you like M98,
i have seen them for myself and the only challange would be getting them out of the mud after shooting them
it's not like they live in hick scrub and hide out all day and are realy seen in the day light hours

shooting thar in the southern alps isn't hard either but recovering them can be tricky but it still isn't a stalking challange

if you want a real stalking challange M98 come over here and i'll drop you off in rusa country for a week and see how many you come out with
i bet i could shoot 50 or more croc's to every one rusa you could shoot over here

M
there is absolutley no rule , just the odds of getting the animal, inversley decrease the longer the range is, they dont need to go far to be lost for good and you cant track them under water , no matter how good one is.
the good gesture i will return to , if you want to have a challange hunting , i will let you loose after sambar in the high country
daniel

well i think i have proved my point that there is very little challange in hunting croc's as long as you are a good shot

unlike the challange of stalking to with in meters from a deer in heavy cover to get your shot

i am going to be heading over to VIC next september to hunt sambar for a month
we have sambar here to i was hunting them last week and was stalking to within 5 meters from them in the flax you may have read the story on this forum

Madness, perhaps the crocs in australia have become less cautious of humans over the past 30 years of relative safety, but I can assure you that getting within range to anchor an african croc such that your $1500-$3000 trophy fee doesn't splash into the water to never be seen again is very challenging. Arguing has no point in this if you haven't done it. Try it--you'll really, really like it!

yes well like i said i have only seen wild croc's oz when out fishing in the middle of no where and they were as dumb as sheep when it come to smarts

the only callange would be on your wallet if you fuck the shot up

i have absolutely no interest at all in going to africa to hunt any thing they have over there

What a load of bollocks this is. Hunting crocs sounds like a very limiting challenge much like shooting goats and rabbits. You must be deluded to think that its a challenge. Have you guys been wrapped up in tissues all your lifes?

thats the spirit jet give it to them

Jet and Madness, this is a hunting forum, PETA and the Humane Society Forums are somewhere else. If you guys have ever shot a big croc--post a picture. If you are trying to degrade a trophy animal about which experienced hunters are telling you is very tough--and about which you have NO Hunting experience, then your opinions aren't worth any more replies from the adults.

quote:

Originally posted by MADNESS:


the only challenge would be on your wallet if you fuck the shot up

that cracked me up

i guess it all comes down to what you call a hunter SGraves155
you must be a real hunter now then as you must have shot a real big one to be alowed to hold such a strong opinion about how hard they are to shoot


just because i haven't pulled the trigger on one doesn't mean i don't know what i am talking about i could have shot them when i've seen them, but you seem to be missing that point

like i said before i have no intrest at all to shoot croc's or any of the african animal

i would like to shoot a nice rusa stag but going to New Calidonia and shooting one out of a mob of other stag wouldn't mean a lot to me and very little challange,
where as getting one in the galatea faces here in NZ although probably not as big antler wise would mean so much more as an achievement and a challange in my eyes

You are so right, madness. Up to a point.
Any greenie will tell you shooting a wild animal is too easy to be called "sport".

That just about leaves the trouble to get within range. The greenies wouldn't be impressed with someones ability to sneek up on an unsuspecting animal either.
They would say you are just making your own trouble to make yourself feel better.

So if you set out on your tramp into the wilds of NZ and just by chance a big stag happenes to get in the way, do you chase it off so that you can tramp around for a few days more???

Hey mate, when I shoot at a feral and miss, (well shore THAT doesn't happen much) anyone sees me I just say,"That was a warning shot".

Sgraves i bet you pay guides to find animals for you.

Jet, Absolutely. None of them will work for free!! In those countries where a foreigner is required by law to have a professional hunter or guide, hunting without one risks imprisonment or heavy fines. I don't suggest you try that.

MADNESS, I just looked thru some of your previous posts, and would like to congratulate you on taking some vey fine mountain game and deer. A man has to be in very good shape and a good hunter to be successful in those pursuits. You are taking the same approach I did 25 years ago--get the mountain game while one is still physically able, because eventually one becomes unable to hunt the mountains. Croc hunting certainly does not pose the same physical difficulties as those. I have been fortunate in being able to take all the American mountain sheep and mountain goat before age 42. Now, at 57, my mountain days are over because of the usual physical problems--knees, heart, etc.
My opinion that croc's are tough is based on hunting them in Mozambique, the Caprivi Strip, and Tanzania. They are tough because of eyes (their's and their bird friends), their incredible sense of smell, and their ability to detect not only sound, but ground vibrations. I compare a 12 foot croc (40 years or so old) to a 5 year old whitetail--neither got old by being stupid or careless. I was astounded at how tough old crocs can be to get up on for a shot. The PH's I have hunted with share my opinion on the crocs. I, too, thought they were just lizards, but they're way more than that. The old crocs in Australia will, I think, remember the days of hunting, and after the first shot near them, will become very difficult to kill. I hope some day you get the opportunity to hunt big crocs--hopefullly in Africa AND Australia--and that you take it ( the opportunity). Best Wishes and Good Hunting.


a 13 footer from the Zambezi

cheers

like is said shooting them at the moment has no apeal to me but that may change as i get older

the kiwi do it yourself up bringing we get means we don't even concider using a guild to go hunting over here
it is just the way most of us are here,
doing it from scratch and our way give us alot more satisfaction with the end result

i enjoy the challange of hunting deer (mostly sika, rusa and sambar) in the wild on there terms and being able to out smart them to be able to take the shot if i choose is what it is all about to me

Folks from Arkansas are known as "hillbillies" and can be exactly the same way. No Insult-- just we're very similiar. That's the way I hunt in my state, too. Our big game here is whitetails, black bear, and elk (if you get lucky on the draw). I only use a "guide" when I'm in another country or state that requires it for non-residents. Some guides are helpful, some don't know anything. It only takes a few hours (or less)to know one from the other. Some of the great parts of hunting in the States are that an American can hunt caribou in Alaska, elk in most of the western states, and black bear and hogs in many states without any "guide". Many times. however, I must admit that a guide can be very valuable--especeially when time is limited or if he really know the game/country.

Madness, your comparision between Rusa and crocs is flawed. The reason why Rusa are hard to hunt is because they are actually hunted and are savvy to humans. Crocs are the complete opposite; they have no fear of humans. Expose them to hunting pressure and they become just as hard to stalk as any other game.

Scott

when did i compare hunting rusa with croc's

i was comparing hunting rusa in New Calidoina to the rusa we have here in NZ

you are talking about something that hasn't happened yet

if i was to go out tomorrow and shoot a croc in oz it would take fuck all to get one

to say they will wise up over time isn't realy what we are talking about was it

quote:

Originally posted by MADNESS:
when did i compare hunting rusa with croc's

quote:

Originally posted by MADNESS:
if you want a real stalking challange M98 come over here and i'll drop you off in rusa country for a week and see how many you come out with
i bet i could shoot 50 or more croc's to every one rusa you could shoot over here

Hunting crocs used to be legal. When it was you would have had stuff all chance of nailing one let alone 50. Crocs sure aren't stupid, just conditioned. It's a dumbarse argument.

well why did you get involved then

have you hunted rusa here in NZ Scott Sharman if not you don't have a clue what you are talking about
like i said i have seen plenty of croc's in the wild and yes they may not have been hunted for a few years but to say they would get harder to hunt is pointless

the few that will be able to be shot each year when it opens up to hunting again will be sitting ducks and very little challange to shoot end of story

You guys seem to be having trouble hunting crocs so i'll give you a few pointers.
1 - you say that they feel vibrations.. walk softly you clumsy oaf. When deerstalking in nz we use beachfeet.
2 - they can smell.. try stalking with the wind in your favour..
3 - they can see you.. no shit buddy, how about you move slowly and use your eyes.
Now i suspect your lack of croc sightings is because you havent been looking in the right places. Crocs live in water and they sunbake on the banks. try looking there next time. Remember
not to trip and stumble.
Im still trying to figure out why you guys can't outsmart a crocodile.. surely they must sit around on banks in the sun and spend most of the time with their noses poking out of the water.

Hey jet, You don't even have to go to that trouble in our north. You just have to camp near the water and they'l come to you.
Once they grabs ya it's then legal to "harvest" 'em.
How near the water? I once saw a very big track going cross country at least a mile from water.

The only really hard part about "hunting" crocs while they are sunning themselves is NOT being hunted by one you haven't seen. The next time that happens wont be the first, or second or____oh you get the idea.

My experience of croc hunting is limited to a few occasions when visiting family in PNG a few years ago ...

Hunting / finding crocs wasn't particularly difficult...

Approaching them wasn't particularly difficult either - we did it by boat - the natives ('boys') would not, under any circumstances, do it on foot...

Shooting them... fairly easy...

Killing them... well... that's a whole different story... I had the dubious pleasure of being in a boat when a 6' croc was brought on board... it had been head shot, but only stunned (the brain is about the size of a golf ball).

Believe me.. a pissed of croc with an almighty headache is just a tad more difficult to get along with than a woman with PMT

And I can tell you, a 6' croc has an awful lot of teeth!!!

Apart from that, while croc is fine eating, they're a proper bitch to skin, as it has to be cut from the flesh....

MADNESS
i have done a bitof hunting in N.Z, there are two reasons why the rusa are difficult the country you hunt them in , but also the numbers are pretty low...
be intresting how you go on the sambar...diffrent kettle of fish then hunting them in the flax plantations...i enjoyed poking around in the flax thou
daniel

Jet, thanks for the advice!! I've had a few fun experiences stalking them, baiting them, shooting them from a speeding skiff headed straight at them (now that's exciting on a big croc at 10 feet away on a bank at waist level-headed directly at it--but the technique takes some explaining) and harpooning them at night with a light from a small boat(with a guy who had a license to do so). All were fun and each presented some challenges. Now I can add your advice to make it easy to get the next one. This advice sounds a whole lot like how we hunt deer.

geekay --you're right, the stalker frequently can become a stalkee. It's happened to me, too.

i have no dout there would be a bit of an adrenalin ruch involved

if i was ever to hunt one my appreoch would be to promped one to attack from the water and nail it as it luanched out at me now that woulsd be a challange to hit it before it got you

I'll put money on the crock. They move a lot faster than Irwins "conditioned" "pets".

What book did I read (again) not long ago, may have been Capstick? Anyway someone shot a crock in Africa, waded out and started pulling it back but it kept comming alive and he kept shooting it, and on land it still kept scareing everyone by moving now and then. Long after it was dead and skinned the crew came back and the crock had a vulture in it's jaws.

quote:

Originally posted by JAL:
I'll put money on the crock. They move a lot faster than Irwins "conditioned" "pets".

What book did I read (again) not long ago, may have been Capstick? Anyway someone shot a crock in Africa, waded out and started pulling it back but it kept comming alive and he kept shooting it, and on land it still kept scareing everyone by moving now and then. Long after it was dead and skinned the crew came back and the crock had a vulture in it's jaws.

And you believe that last line?

Skinned crocs (or sharks, or snakes) still being able to bite? You bet they do!!

Yes I did. I can imagine they had the usual stick holding the jaws open, and maybe the vulture bumped it, and SNAP goes the trap.

Hell, I believe anything I read and nothing i'm told.