Gentlemen,

I am completely ignorant about these animals except having seen a few videos of them being hunted.Could you please explain how dangerous they are?Are they aggressive animals,prone to charge etc.Not placing them in the Cape Buffalo league, but apart from the terrain, what challenge these animals pose?Thank you for your replies.

Best-
Locksley,R

Robin,
A friend of mine was a hunting guide in the NT. He was guiding his brother on a hunt and as they were walking through a bit of a gully they heard a noise, looking up they saw a scrub bull charging straight at them, unprovoked. They shot that bugger and as they were standing there wondering WTF was that all about they heard another noise behind them. Turning just in time to see another scrubber charging them and they got that one too. These two bulls were coming at them from different directions at just about the same time. My mate had never seen anything like that before.

He has guided lots of clients onto buffalo but rates the scrub as more dangerous.

I was a high country musterer when I left school in the late 60's and on one property wherte they summered the cattle on the hill blocks there were always the odd one that slipped the muster. Even after just one year they were to be watched. The rule was never to be away from your horse as they would 'have at you' if you were on foot.

Von Gruff.

Colonel Fawcett in Bolivia:
http://www.unmuseum.org/fawcett.htm

I read that with interest about the Colonel,I think his mental measuring tape was a bit out of whack though..

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The boat stopped so that the Colonel could examine the body. Despite being fatally wounded, "shivers ran up and down the body like puffs of wind on a mountain tarn." Though they had no measuring device along with them, Fawcett estimated the creature was sixty-two feet in length and 12-inches in diameter.

quote:

Originally posted by gryphon1:
I read that with interest about the Colonel,I think his mental measuring tape was a bit out of whack though..

Quote

The boat stopped so that the Colonel could examine the body. Despite being fatally wounded, "shivers ran up and down the body like puffs of wind on a mountain tarn." Though they had no measuring device along with them, Fawcett estimated the creature was sixty-two feet in length and 12-inches in diameter.

Yeah, wonder if he measured 6.2 meters and it eventually got changed by story writers/editors to 62 feet?

Oh, I wouldn't worry about them. There are not many reports of this sort of thing. Kinda hard to report something when you don't survive!

Had dealings with a few of them.. they create merry hell with controlled breeding programs.

Most are a bit tricky, but some are like a woman with severe PMT with 'roid rage'.. if you get my drift... especially if there are are cows in oestrus nearby.

Use a decent gun,and knock 'em over.

quote:

... especially if there are are cows in oestrus nearby.

Oh, that might make sense but in all honesty I did not expect ferral cattle to be aggressive!

PS What is the singular for 'cattle'? (That's a catch question!)

I consider scrub bulls to be a lot more aggressive and unpredictable than the Asiatic Buffalo. Not as bright but with considerably less tolerance to some bloke intruding in their personal space.

Hunting buffalo on the floodplains is relatively stress free, but when chasing a scrubby, I like to have some cover to either a) hide behind, or b) climb.

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Originally posted by 303Guy:

quote:

... especially if there are are cows in oestrus nearby.

Oh, that might make sense but in all honesty I did not expect ferral cattle to be aggressive!

PS What is the singular for 'cattle'? (That's a catch question!)

Never hunted buff, so not in a position to compare, but scrubbies are not like you're average cow... or bull.

Can't explain it, but even without nearby cows, scrubbies are not something to be trifled with.

Its a territory thing - you have invaded their "space" and they would like you leave .

303Guy - the word cattle is both plural and singular , depending on the context. You can have a cattle beast - singular - or a herd of cattle - plural. Just like the word "sheep" - singular and plural.

Interstingly you dont have "cattles "....

Hee hee! Actually, cattle is plural - there is no singular! Not like buffalo - plural and "a buffalo" - singular. There is no "a cattle". Not according to Wikipedia, anyway.

quote:

Singular terminology dilemma
Cattle can only be used in the plural and not in the singular: it is a plurale tantum. Thus one may refer to "three cattle" or "some cattle", but not "one cattle". There is no universally used singular equivalent in modern English to "cattle", other than the gender and age-specific terms such as cow, bull, steer and heifer.

Are our feral cattle also aggressive? I have come across tracks in the bush in Whanganui Park!

Different breed here,only shot one,don't know if he would have had a go or not,i didn't wait to find out.

Scrub bulls according to those who should know, are generally considered the most likely to charge, out of cape or water buffalo and scrub bulls.

They seem to be more neurotic than water buffalo or jumpy or on edge for some reason ? during the brucellosis ,TB eradication program, my brother had a few hairy experiences with them ,like one bull sticking his head right into the cab of the 4wd ,luckily my brother was holding his rifle against his chest pointing out the window and just had to pull the trigger .Maybe they have been bred that way ,to have high testoterone levels for breeding, which makes them jumpy

How dangerous are scrub bulls?

How dangerous is a good shot with a 375 H + H?

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Originally posted by gryphon1:
How dangerous are scrub bulls?

How dangerous is a good shot with a 375 H + H?

Good analogy Gryph, and I for one am not about to volunteer to stand unarmed in front of either.. LOLOL

quote:

PS What is the singular for 'cattle'? (That's a catch question!)

The word is "neat", as in "neat's-foot oil" or as I have always understood it to be.
In South Africa we talk about a beast or use the Afrikaans word "bees" as the singular.

Yes I run cattle and a single animal is a 'beast' to us also.

My analogy is a simple way of saying that the mickey bull is not that dangerous when one is a good shot and has that old holland in his claw....rifles have killed thousands of them in Aus..I cant find any records of WILD bulls killing hunters and if there is such there wouldnt be too many especially compared to Mbogo`s tally of kills on humans.

One thing is our and OS safari operators love to talk them up for clients...we all know that part!

Google "killed by bull" and you will get many results for tame stock.
Haven't tried googling "killed by bullshit", but suppose it has happened, too.
Any critter loaded up on testosterone that gets pissed off could be quite dangerous---hence the bull in bull-shark.

Just go back and read the ITALICS in my last post.

Its pertaining to WILD bulls in Australia,simple as that.

gryphon1,
No disagreement was intended. The word WILD was obvious, and you are correct.
I was just adding comment regarding tame bulls being dangerous. It is likely just a matter of whoever is closest to a pissed bull--and nobody is ever usually close to a wild bull.
It could also be argued that tame bulls would be more dangerous because they have no fear of man.

As a cattleman i have a fair idea of what any of them can do whether in the yards or paddock but it was rammed home truly when the wife of the time`s friend had his father killed by a bottle reared adult bull...the bull was giving it to the man and the son drove the farm vehicle over his father to protect him and went for help .

When help arrived they found that the bull had pushed the vehicle away from the old boy and then killed him...i would have had great delight in killing that bastard for sure.

Bottle reared bull calves are notorious for killing or at least attacking humans later in their lives...the go is to take their nuts out for starters ,rear them and send them to the abba`s to go over the hooks.

That bull wouldnt have done the old boy in if the son had that 375 in his claw though.

I grew up on a dairy farm and Dad had bulls around when we were very small. He taught us to fear them. When I was eight or so he sold the bull and didn't get another. He had kept a bull around to breed the cows and heifers that artificial insemination didn't catch. When we showed cattle at county and state fairs we had show bulls that we never kept over a year old.

I knew several people hurt by bulls. They'd raise them with the heifers and steers and they were very tame. Then when they grew up they'd be out in the pasture with the cows and would suddenly be on you like a bolt of lightning, if you didn't get under the fence, have a dog with you you were a dead man. Smart people carried a pitch fork with them. I heard stories over and over of bulls in a stanchion along with the cows. The farmer would push the silage and hay from the day before down the manger and the bull you handled every day would swipe at you with their heads and something broke like a leg.

A few years ago the next door family always had Jersey dairy bulls in the pasture with the cows. We'd tell the family how dangerous bulls were running loose in the cowyard. One day the bull that had always been around and ignored tried to kill the wife, Mary, smashing her against the barn wall. Luckily the female Rottwieler that stuck with Mary like glue assaulted the bull and just hammered him. Her collar bone broke and she was badly bruised but she didn't get maimed or killed. We went over the next day to help her milk cows but the husband took time off from work to milk. He told us about it looking at the bull in the pasture all alone. Howard had tears in his eyes. Then he laughed at the dog as she stared at the bull whimpering and growling. He said watch this. He hollered out "bull!" and the Rottwieler jumped up and ran twenty steps or so at the bull and and barked and snapped at him. The bull standing a couple hundred yards out threw his head up and jumped- she must have gotten his attention!

When kids went to visit their freinds the first question was "They have a bull with the cows so stay away from the pasture."

One night my Dad, Uncle and Grandfather had finished milking and had shut off some of the barn lights and were in the milk house washing milking machines. I was three or so since my uncle LeRoy died during my third year.

I wondered back in the barn, down the walk and for some reason wound up in front of the bull pen. THe bull was in the darkened pen looking at me. I looked at the pole with a little hook on the end used to latch on the ring in his nose to handle him. The joke was the ring was the last thing to grab as the bull was grinding you into dust.

When we showed cattle we lead the bulls by the ring. One of the women we competed with had an aged bull that wieghed nearly a ton. It was quite a sight seeing this little woman backing around a show ring leading a giant bull by the nose. The dairy associations finally banned showing bulls at fairs the year we quit showing- they were too dangerous to be around people.

Back to my bull. I, for some reason, grabbed the pole, reached into the pen and snared the bull's ring. He backed against the wall pressing his head as far away from me he could get. I was pulled through the opening in the pen until I was hanging, arms extended, laying on the board across my lower belly. From the waist down was in walk side of the boards the rest of me was extended into the dark pen. The bull was snorting, probably as scared as I was. Then I heard Grandpa ask the others where I was. Finally LeRoy went looking for me. He saw my legs sticking out in the walk and ran towards me. He reached in the pen over me and said to let go of the pole. I was locked up solid, not saying a word or even breathing. He had to peel my fingers off the pole one finger at a time telling me to please let go.

After that one I stayed away from the bull.

The bull was pretty bored most of time. He had a habit of bumping his head against the door over and over and over all the time. Dad would pound 16 penny nails through the door every so often so the bull wouldn't break down the door. Every so often Dad would open the door checking the spikes then pound some more nails through. The door had dozens of bent over nails on the bulls side.

I ranch with Nguni cattle in pretty rugged terrain and reckon they would turn into wonderful hunting cattle if let loose in the Aussie Outback! Mine are tame, but I agree that the tamest are the most dangerous.
There is a story that the rate of farmers killed by dairy bulls dropped dramatically in North America when artificial insemination became popular. For obvious reasons, but the figure of yearly fatalities was staggering, though I cannot remember it now.

Throughout Australia`s farming community Jersey bulls are regarded as bad, the reason is they have either killed or gored many people and are rated as 'bloody dangerous bastards" and never to be trusted.

I dont trust any of them of course.We broke a lot of Charolais bulls in to lead for show purposes and they never gave us much angst but we never trusted them fully either.

A lot of the feral bulls up north havent even seen a human and if they have its usually been a bad experience for them...but the bloke with the H+H rates as more dangerous still IE the winner!

quote:

Throughout Australia`s farming community nJersey bulls ,for whatever reason are rated as 'bloody dangerous bastards" and never to be trusted.

Jerseys have the same reputation here. Genetics are a very powerful thing.

HOLY .... ummm ... COW!
Now I don't feel silly about being cautious when I came across the 'beast' tracks.

The story was when I was a kid that Jersey bulls had killed more Americans than all wild animals combined.

We had Guernseys. The females and steers were like companions. They were taught to lead the day they were born. We'd even grab the older cows one hand under the chin and the other over the top of the head and drag them out on the lawn for people to see (and show off).

But never had the urge for one second to play with a bull.

A neighbor is a rodeo broker and has rodeo crew. He has over 100 bulls, mostly Brahma crosses. They are very tame since they are handled all the time but NO ONE touches them. They don't cause the alarm that dairy bulls cause.

Stallions are the same way. No one but a fool walks around a stallion without being very aware of them.

TED

Prior to where i am I was employed managing a small Thoroughbred stud with 12 mares and one stallion....I never ever ever trusted that black bastard...EVER and my boss would get in with him and laugh at me saying to the horse in baby talk shit like "Old King wouldn't hurt a fly would you mate"

After the big fires went through the area I went back to the old stud to see how they fared and when there the boss told me how "old King' just grabbed him by the shoulder one day lifted him off the ground and shook him like a rat...thats when I came in with the old "told you so line"

I dont trust any of those bastards either,in fact I wrote about how one of the mares there broke a chunk of bone off my hip when she booted me one morning and she was another "trusty one' the fkn moll!

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Originally posted by Karoo:

quote:

Throughout Australia`s farming community nJersey bulls ,for whatever reason are rated as 'bloody dangerous bastards" and never to be trusted.

Jerseys have the same reputation here. Genetics are a very powerful thing.

Yep jerseys are knowen for it here too.
Up untill recently we had 30- 35 of the buggers with our grazer heifers each season, my rule was that if one put his head down at you, you walked straight at him and smacked him with the biggest peice of wood handy. Worked well untill I was giving my brother a hand with one of his mobs, bull starts pawing the ground and growling at me, I walk up to clonk him and suddenly it's all on! had to push off his head with my hands and make a very fast escape. Brother is laughing on the hill top and seez, I forgot to warn you about him.On saying that, also had a Hereford lift me over a fence one day, so would go with, nothing that size can be trusted.

I grew up in ste state of Maine , northern New England ...Dairy and logging area ... It was a known fact the most dangerous farm animal was a Jersy bull .. they were mean on purpose .. But the closest I came to getting killed by an animal that I know of was a Holstein bull named Norman ... He caught me out in the pasture and I just made it under the shit spreader before he almost knocked it over sideways .... Thank God the farmers dog ,Duke . a German Shepard got there and ran him off ... I was 13 yrs old ......

Wow all these storys about bulls. Makes me glad I'm going to get a Dexter...they're little

.. What is a Dexter???

The Dexter is an Irish breed and its the smallest natural breed of cattle.

http://www.stonehavenstud.com.au/dextercattle.htm

Bakesey wy not get a camel instead mate?

A new Army Captain was assigned to an outfit in a remote post in the desert.

During his first inspection of the outfit, he noticed a Camel hitched up behind the mess tent.

He asks the Sergeant why the camel is kept there.
The nervous sergeant said, "Well sir, as you know, there are 250 men here
on the post and no women. And sir, sometimes the men have "urges".

That's why we have Molly The Camel."
The Captain says, "I can't say that I condone this, but I understand
about "urges", so the camel can stay ."

About a month later, the Captain starts having his own "urges". Crazy
with passion, he asks the Sergeant to bring the camel to his tent.

Putting a ladder behind the camel, the Captain stands on the ladder,
pulls his pants down and has wild, insane sex with the camel.

When he's done, he asks the Sergeant, "Is that how the men do it?"

No not really, sir... "They usually just ride the camel into town where
the rent girls are."