muzza

pm sent

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
AZ, we don't have the draft any more and every man or woman that sacrificed their lives in Iraq did so voluntarly. I salute them for it. I guess if I fall next week in the S Alps and get killed it is because I opt to save time a fly to into the mts so to H*ll with me, eh.. This is just what I wanted to read about a week before my hunting trip to Wanaka NZ.

No, it's not "to hell with you." But your death would not be any more tragic than if you got hit by a car or your airplane crashed going over there.

quote:

One of the more successful NZ Outfitters estimates that over 50% of all Tahr shot by Foreiginers are shot from a Helicopter or shot within 5 minutes of leaving a Helicopter.

I guess that explains so much of the defense of this type of shooting.

Nitro has a good point when he mentioned all these tyros posing the pics to hide the Helo or the fence. Why do that if you are not ashamed of how you shot the animal?

quote:

If you dont like the situation dont come down here and tell US what to do in our back yard. Dont hunt a chamois or a tahr , frankley it wont matter , there are plenty of other hunters who will hunt them in your absence - in a manner that suits their personal ethics , on the ground , in the air, swinging from a trapeze whilst wearing shocking pink leotards.

Funny with all your words Muzza,i get exactly the opposite from my daily visits to three NZ hunting forums on the current subject,so MANY of your fine hunting countrymen are in agreeance with us anti unethicals here about choppers,unethical hunting and deer pen shooting why do you protest so much yourself cobber?

Show me where I have said I condone canned hunts or chopper shooting .

What I have stated all along - and you dont seem to have caught on yet - is that it isnt your right to tell others how they can hunt.
I have stated that it is legal to use a helicopter here , and it is legal to hunt a penned animal . Nowhere have I said that I do those things , or even that i would consider it .

At the end of the day you cannot impose your personal "ethics" on anyone except yourself .

As long as you guys continue to rabbit on along these lines I will defend the right of any individual to hunt however he or she sees fit , providing it is within the laws of the land .

As I said , and you have quoted me as saying , if you dont like it-dont come here. But dont tell me what to do in my backyard.

quote:

What I have stated all along - and you dont seem to have caught on yet - is that it isnt your right to tell others how they can hunt.
I have stated that it is legal to use a helicopter here , and it is legal to hunt a penned animal . Nowhere have I said that I do those things , or even that i would consider it .

At the end of the day you cannot impose your personal "ethics" on anyone except yourself .

I dont see anyone imposing their personal ethics in such a way as actually telling others how to hunt,i see it as espousing a personal view on how some others do what they do

quote:

As I said , and you have quoted me as saying , if you dont like it-dont come here. But dont tell me what to do in my backyard.

Bloody amazing how many Kiwi`s will disagree with you mate,you are amongst the minority that condones the sort of crap IMPOSED on us magazine readers,internet viewers and true hunters etc by those that play the "other game"

But there you go again - you are presuming to speak for everyone else.

This is a lost cause , its been an interesting way to discover human nature at a distance but at the end of the day my ethics are the ones I live by , not anyone elses and that wont change for me .

You guys can slog it out for all youre worth -you'll just have to manage without me . Think you can handle it ?

quote:

You guys can slog it out for all youre worth -you'll just have to manage without me . Think you can handle it ?

Does this mean you are quitting the thread? Yep we can handle it perfectly if thats the case.And i`m only presuming to speak for and with those of us that have posted on the true hunt.

muzza:
I'm glad to see that you are capable of reading the original post, and not ASSUMING anything else.
READ THE DAMN POST!
1. He was a tourist.
2. He was a hunter.
3. He died while jumping from a helicopter.
4. That's it! Nothing else!
You can add anything to that you want to, but its all speculation.
He was shooting game from a helicopter?
He was shooting game very close to the helicopter?
He was not using the helicopter to gain access to the top of the mountain only?
It's not "ethical" to use a helicopter as transport for shooting game?
Most of the Thar shot by nonresident hunters are shot from a helicopter?
Where in the hell does it say anything about this in the original post?
It doesn't. These are assumption made by posters.

quote:

Originally posted by muzza:
Show me where I have said I condone canned hunts or chopper shooting .

What I have stated all along - and you dont seem to have caught on yet - is that it isnt your right to tell others how they can hunt.
I have stated that it is legal to use a helicopter here , and it is legal to hunt a penned animal . Nowhere have I said that I do those things , or even that i would consider it .

At the end of the day you cannot impose your personal "ethics" on anyone except yourself .

As long as you guys continue to rabbit on along these lines I will defend the right of any individual to hunt however he or she sees fit , providing it is within the laws of the land .

As I said , and you have quoted me as saying , if you dont like it-dont come here. But dont tell me what to do in my backyard.

Muzza

I'm not getting personal here at all.

I was thinking about this thread and thinking about how gentlemen like you get upset by comments made here. You say it is up to the individual and if legal, why not?

First point. In the great firearms control debates we keep arguing that firearms should be a right, and honest law abiding hunters and shooters should not be unreasonably restricted. We argue the government should NOT BE ABLE TO TELL US WHAT TO DO.

Yet in this debate, we say BECAUSE THE GOV'T IS OK WITH IT, IT IS OK !!!

Why shouldn't we make up our own individual minds what is OK and WHAT IS NOT OK.

Is the concept of fair chase dead in New Zealand? In the pursuit of the almighty dollar?

***

Second point. You say, what is to you, what others do?

This same attitude can be turned. Why do you get so upset because we have certain beliefs and you claim to not even do the things we are arguing against?

Just because some of us might hold a trophy or a person in total contempt for shooting it from a helicopter should not bother ANYONE if they think it is a fine way to kill a premier game animal. I am happy and willing to defend all my hunting and have always been honest when I have made mistakes because they were honest mistakes. Not deceit and lies to cover up embarrassing behaviour.

***

My attitude is anywhere in the world:

1. Any animal taken in a HIGH fenced enclosure, paddock, park etc should not be eligible for trophy registers eg the SCI.

2. No trophy from NZ should be eligible for inclusion on trophy registers if the hunter flew into camp or the hunting area the same day as the animal was shot.

Most of the guys doing this sort of thing aren't interested in hunting at all, merely bragging rights, medals or "trophies" for grand slams, being listed on registers etc. In and out of the mountains in a day or two, so they can do their 20 animals in a week or two.

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
I guess if I fall next week in the S Alps and get killed it is because I opt to save time a fly to into the mts so to H*ll with me, eh.. This is just what I wanted to read about a week before my hunting trip to Wanaka NZ.

No one is happy that unfortunate gentlemen died in an accident.

As for your hunt, make sure the chopper if you choose to use one, drops you off in a safer place, even if it means more walking and climbing.

TJ:

It is reasonable to assume a few things:

1. No helicopter pilot would state "I dropped my client off on a steep hill so he could shoot a tahr." But why on earth would the pilot drop someone off in such a dangerous area if he wasn't getting ready to shoot?
2. I chartered a helicopter after my hunt in NZ. He took us 25 miles into a park and we hiked out. Guess what? When he dropped us off he didn't drop us off on a cliff - even though Ms AZ and I are pretty good mountain climbers. Why not? Because doing so is stupid and dangerous. Why do you suppose this pilot dropped this guy off on a cliff? Why is it hunting accidents and helicopters seem to go hand in hand in NZ?

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
Oldun:


My point? The "sanctinmonious drivel" is, in my opinion, anyone who thinks this guys death is a tragedy but don't take 1 minute to see who died today in Iraq.

Many seem to be gushing over this guy but don't think for one minute about all the young men and women sacrificing their lives for this country. On the other hand, here we have a guy who died doing something we all love to do (well, I don't love to hunt from a helicopter). So why feel sorry for the guy? I am sorry, he got to hunt in a land a lot of those same soldiers fighting in Iraq will never get to hunt.

Look, if you want me to take a few minutes to say some prayers or whatever, I will say them for the service members who died today. Not some guy shooting animals from a helicopter.

Interesting stuff AZ
I appreciate your acknowledgement of the servicemen/women in the war against terror & their loss of life.
However your argument is unjust in comparing this military tragic loss of life against the tragic loss of life of a fellow hunter.
The hunter who died in NZ is no less tragic for his family than that of the families of military personnel on duty in the middle east, that much is clear to us all.
By the same token, these same servicemen & women are in a job they chose to do. fully accepting they may be required to defend their respective countries, as they now do.
The real enemy IS the terrorists not a fellow hunter.
So is this really a question of ethics ?
I would suggest to all the brothers & sisters who have contributed & those who have read this post, that the waters have been muddied by including the deaths of military personnel as a bench mark against a tragic accident suffered by a fellow hunter doing what he loved.
Who gives a flying f--- wether a chopper to the top of a mountain is ethical.
It`s the same as rowing a boat to NZ from OZ for the hunt, where do you draw the startline in order to say it`s now fair to hunt the tahr or chamois.
Is it fair to use a scoped rifle, is it fair to use a rifle at all ?
It`s those moralistic types in the businness of law making that are too quick to judge us shooters on ethical grounds, that we shooters are up against each day.
We must all see this, it is imperative not to lose focus on the real facts of the original post.
A fellow hunter died doing what he supposedly loved !
MUZZA, You got it right ! I see where your coming from. It is legal in NZ, & those who wish to condemn the man for his methods, are guilty of the same sins our law makers are committing against us as shooters.
I also see where AZwriter is coming from too, with regard to respect for our fallen comrades fighting for our freedom.
However this post was never about that.
It is simply a heads up about a fellow most of us don`t even know who paid with his life for a misjudgement he made while getting out of a helicopter.

Cheers Morton

Morton:

I posted the stuff about military sacrifice simply because some were quick to judge me and others as being callous. People die tragically every day. We read about it in the papers every day, yet we don't think for a minute about their families, etc. That was my point.

As for ethics, here is what I posted on another thread that:

Ms AZ and I talked about this subject last night. She is a mountaineer (I am as well, but not like her), and reminded me the question of ethics is a huge controversy in that sport. Getting tugged up Everest on a short rope is not the same as doing it youself; using sherpas to carry everything but the kitchen sink is not the same as an alpine style ascent.

She calls it a question of purity, and that is a good way to characterize it in hunting as well. The more "pure" your hunt, the better you should feel about it. Is it legal to hunt out of a helicopter in NZ? Of course. Is it ethical? Not for me, but it might be for you. Is it a purer form of hunting than climbing the hill? No way. Not for me, and not for you.

In the world of sheep hunting, Archie Nesbitt has shot just about everything in the world with a bow. Does that make him a better hunter and a more "pure" hunter than the handful of guys that have done it with a rifle? You bet your ass it does and anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional.

If you disagree, think about this: anyone who has a copy of Ovis or Grand Slam knows Archie's name. They sure can't name the others.

From THE HUNTING REPORT E-MAIL XTRA

American Hunter Dies In
Tragic New Zealand Hunting Accident

An American hunter from New Hampshire slipped and fell nearly 1,000 feet to his death this past Monday, May 22, while chamois hunting in New Zealand. The hunter's name is Clifford Wayne Senter, and he is brother of Hunting Report subscriber Robert Senter of New Hampshire.

The accident occurred shortly after Senter climbed out of a helicopter in the rugged mountains of Mount Aspiring National Park on the South Island. Seems Senter had already taken a tahr and was pursuing a chamois in rugged mountain terrain when he dismounted the helicopter onto the ledge of a bluff. Although there was no snow on the outcropping, we understand the rock was slippery, and there was no grass to hold onto and stop a fall.

Senter was accompanied at the time by his guide from Leithen Valley Trophy Hunts. Because of thick clouds in the valley below, a rescue party was unable to land until Tuesday morning to recover Senter's body. Senter was an experienced international hunter, who had hunted Africa for elephant and other species. The family expects to have his body back in the United States early next week. At this writing, funeral plans had not yet been made. Robert Senter was unavailable for comment when we contacted him to offer our condolences, but his wife encouraged fellow subscribers who wish to express their condolences to contact the family by mail at: 8 Old Road, Plaistow, New Hampshire 03865.

Apparently this is not the only deadly accident to occur in New Zealand recently. The Otago Daily Times reports that five tourists have been killed while visiting wilderness areas in New Zealand this year. While New Zealand is not a destination most hunters associate with danger, recent events serve to remind us of the nature of hunting in any venue. - Barbara Crown.

I hate to hear that it happened to my close personal friends at Leithen Valley.. Nobody would want that to happen to them while they were guiding someone and have to see that person die right in front of you.. I am really close to the guide that this happened to. I also know the pilot. A very unfortunate event that unfortuately, happens every year in NZ.. It almost happened to me while I was there guiding for Leithen Valley back in'01.. I fell, but am still here to tell the tale. I will post my story here in a little while.. My reasoning for this post is just to share with all of you a pic of the man who just lost his life while doing something he loved. I really don't give two shits wheather you agree with the meathods of hunting invloved here. Every one is intitled to their own beliefs and opinions. But, we ARE talking about a fellow hunter and a fellow human being. I feel he just deserves a little respect around here, wheather you care or not..
And a pic of someone just helps people see that he was a person like you and me.

That is him on the right..

Hunting has changed and if a guy wants to take a chopper up a mountain to save him the walk so be it. Its just a form of transport. Its like me taking my car to my hunting places. If I want to shoot a pig from my car is that ethical? In Australia we spotlight animals all the time, is that ethical? If everybody wants to talk ethics do so on another thread. This one is about a fellow hunter that has died.

One thing we can all probably agree on. Hunting in a mountainous region is dangerous and always has been.

AZ, not to get involved in the ethics thing,which I feel is very personal to each individual I feel I should comment on your assertion that your service people are 'sacrificing their lives for this country'. While I acknowledge that the deaths in Iraq are a tragic waste, lets not kid ourselves that they are saving the rest of you from anything.There are a dozen countries where at the moment the civil rights abuses are as bad as Husseins but are the US troops there? No they aren't and these places have neither WMD or oil. Oh, sorry, Iraq didn't have WMD either,did it?

quote:

Originally posted by garrys02:
AZ, not to get involved in the ethics thing,which I feel is very personal to each individual I feel I should comment on your assertion that your service people are 'sacrificing their lives for this country'. While I acknowledge that the deaths in Iraq are a tragic waste, lets not kid ourselves that they are saving the rest of you from anything.There are a dozen countries where at the moment the civil rights abuses are as bad as Husseins but are the US troops there? No they aren't and these places have neither WMD or oil. Oh, sorry, Iraq didn't have WMD either,did it?

Garry:

The top five countries from which the US imports oil:

Canada
Mexico
Saudi Arabia
Venezuala
Nigeria


Would I have invaded Iraq if I was Bush? No. But I would put the world on notice that if any nuke went off in the US, the US will retaliate against any and all countries that we suspect might have had anything to do with it. Since a nuke would destroy our economy (real estate would become worthless, the stock market would collapse,etc.), why not fuck up the rest of the world since we can't play any more? Such a threat worked well against the Soviet Union, and would have worked well against state sponsored terrorism.

Of course, the ensuing fallout from attacking all of those countries would make life dangerous around the world, but who cares? Life in the US as we know it is over.

Now, that all said, aren't you glad Bush is president and not me?

I have just returned from NZ and while waiting in the Queenstown airport I met some hunters from Georgia. During our comparison of notes the accident in May came up, I brought it up. They said they had hunted with the guide that had guided the party involved in the accident. They said the guide said the hunter that took the fall had exited the plane and was awaiting the rest of the party when he slipped and fell to his death. This appears to agree with Kathi's report from the Hunting Report. They said the guide was exceptional in the performance of her duties while they hunted with her. I don't remember her name but they said she was 26 I believe. As a result of the accident they opt not to fly up and hunt mountain game. These were also expereinced international hunters.

I knew two very fit Aussies who were dropped off by a chopper and left on their own for a week. They nearly died from exposure, the ground was so difficult they could hardly move, the weather so bad they saw nothing. Some picnic hey?

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
Why is it hunting accidents and helicopters seem to go hand in hand in NZ?

Well, the kiwi boys (and girls) are big movers and go-getters, and that in it's self is dangerous enough. Then the whole country is virtually a "cliff". Scrambling around shooting is not as safe as say tennis.
Ad in choppers anywhere,let alone in rough country with lousy weather, and guess what??

Helicopter piloting is probably something you have to try, in order to better understand.

The guy who taught me had much experience in Northsea oil rig work,construction in HongKong,Mining and Geological work in PapuaNewGuinea,Police,rescue and instructing(in excess of 25,000hrs) He is often called into rotary wing aviation enquiries to give his proffessional view.

He taught me things outside the book. cause that is what clients and real life situations will ask or demand of you. He taught me how to stay alive while doing a demanding job.
He taught me how to hover while putting a skid on cliff/ridge ledges, cause that is what happens in remote areas with geologists on board.
They dont operate under the same circumstances as tour guide operators that drop off husband and wife teams for a hike.
They will fly you from official HeliPad to Helipad, but for 90% of their work outside of cities,its much different. Quite often you drop people and equipment off in areas where cannot actually land.That is the idea,and is part of the flexibilty these machines are ment to offer. Geologists are not mountaineers in general, and neither are most hunters.Nor are they expected to be.Its much safer,smarter, quicker and easier to get these guys trained to get on&off a skid than trying to get them to climb up and down a mountain.

The guy died doing what he was doing. Whether he got out under duress from the pilot, or the pilot landed there under duress from the demands of the client,or maybe they were all happy with the situation and an accident just happened, with no one to blame. We dont really know.
Some peoples idea of adventure is catching the monorail to the Imax 3D theatre and grabbing a burger.
Ill take riding a helicopter skid, stalking an Alaskan Moose and a campfire thankyou.

The danger is not in what you are doing, but the lack of focus in what you are doing.
I have saved peoples asses at the kerbside where they were about to walk straight out infront of a speedy car.
a 6" kerb is just as risky as a 6000ft mountain, and more so, if you dont have your witts about you.

One thing Hunters and Chopper pilots have in common, is that, they both much prefer to have the wind in their face.

We need to maintain a sense of proportion here. The guy wasn't doing anything wrong and he died. He didn't deserve it.

Even if he wasn't living up to your individual ethical standards that isn't a capitol offense.

Ethics consist of the study of morality, and the derived principles that guide our actions. If someone else's behavior is within the law but doesn't meet with those principles, all we can do is say "I wouldn't hunt that way" or "I wouldn't hunt with someone like that." But if the law doesn't demand something, neither can we.

Mate - where were you when I was trying to make that point earlier in this discussion???

I was out.

quote:

Originally posted by TJ:
Do you walk to the area you hunt in?

Yes.
That is called "hunting".
The verb may be unknown to you. But feel free to use a gatling gun from a helicopter.

As to the poor guy who died on the mountain: without knowing more about him, about the trip configuration, and about the spot which the chopper pilot chose to drop (literally) his clients, one should not make a judgement, I feel. It is not as easy as with the US servicemen and -women whose death in Iraq was mention: for *those* indeed _deserved_ to die, to take up China Fleet Sailor's distinction.

Carcano

carcano91,

From here on out don't try to associate any of your opinions to anything I've ever said or written.

carcano:
I refuse to go off topic and turn this thread into a political discussion. I will say this, you are either stipid or ignorant and your name is on my personal "ignore" list. Not because of your smart ass comment about hunting, but, the comment about our service men.

OK. So I have a grizzly hunt coming up.

I really feel bad about my lack of hunting ethics, so I've decided to walk the 275 miles
from a major city into the wilderness. I'd
be too ashamed to fly in or drive! Would it be acceptable to parachute in? I don't mean the
pussy kind. I'm talking high altitude halo
jump! Nah. Not primative enough!

Now the poor griz is at a real disadvantage, so I won't be so unethical as to use a rifle, bow or knife. God, those slobs who lower themselves to use binos and other such modern unethical advantages.

I've considered my weapon of choice and have opted for rocks. No pre selecting, now, I'll
just pick up what's available at the last moment. I've decided pre selecting rocks is unfair to the poor bear!

I did consider, but only briefly, using a slingshot. After all, David did slay Golaith
with one. But had that fight actually been a fair one, Golaith would have won. We all know
that in our hearts! So, I've concluded a sling
would be unethical.

Now the bear wears no boots or additional clothing to protect himself from the weather,
so I've also decided to go barefoot and naked
just to make the hunt fair and ethical.

I would take a compass, but a real hunter would simply look at the moss growing on the trees
and the stars. Food and water? I'll do what all
REAL MEN do, I'll live off the land!

I'm pretty much set for this hunt now, but have two problems.

1. My age. I've been getting in shape for this hunt now for 3 years, but find I don't have the stamina I hoped to attain. I've
instructed myself to work harder! Damn, 61 is tougher than I thought! Please don't spare my feelings...Am I simply too old to hunt ethically?

2. Wolves! I am having trouble reasoning this
one out. A pack of wolves means I'll be severely outnumbered, making any confrontation
unfair to me.


So, my question is to the REAL men on this thread. What do I do about the wolf situation?
Does anyone know how to advise the wolves that
hunting me is UNETHICAL unless they do it in
a one-on-one manner.

And damn, I simply cannot find anything written anywhere on how to speak "wolf". How can I make this an ethical hunt without cooperation from the wolf pack? If they bite me and wound me, will I really become a werewolf!

Please advise on this, as I'm a little concerned!

I'd invite some of the real men here to accompany me, but my personal take is that to hunt other than by oneself is unethical. I
mean, we have the superior brain already, and it
has been said two heads are better than one.
Unfair! Unfair! Unfair! Makes us no better than the wolves!


Aligator Dondee
American big game hunter

Gidday Don,

You have put so succinctly my feeling toward those who would put social constructs on those of us who live by our own rules. Ethics are a social construct and are relavent only in the environment where they were "constructed". Anywhere else they are irrelavent.

What is the point in being at the top of the food chain unless you can utilise the advantages God has given us.

I would bet that those who are criticing we who are using our superior intelect don't ask whether the quarter pack they buy at KFC has been hunted ethicaly.

It is all a matter of context.

Happy Hunting

Hamish

quote:

Originally posted by Hamish:
Gidday Don,

You have put so succinctly my feeling toward those who would put social constructs on those of us who live by our own rules. Ethics are a social construct and are relavent only in the environment where they were "constructed". Anywhere else they are irrelavent.

What is the point in being at the top of the food chain unless you can utilise the advantages God has given us.

I would bet that those who are criticing we who are using our superior intelect don't ask whether the quarter pack they buy at KFC has been hunted ethicaly.

It is all a matter of context.

Happy Hunting

Hamish

My point exactly, Hamish. To what degree do we push the "ethics" question? It can be pushed to absurdity as I've illustrated. And
what right do we have to inflict our views on others?

By the way, that's one of the major flaws of my country. Everyone wants to make laws that inflict their points of view on everyone else! Open debates about personal preferrences are one thing...but laws??!! Of course, everyone wanting said laws also want an exemption for themselves!

I've always wanted to visit your beautiful country, and possibly do some hunting or fishing. Hopefully I'll get that done before
my time on this earth is over.

Happy Hunting yourself.

Don

Don

Can you hunt whitetail deer, elk, big horn sheep or whatever you might shoot in Ohio from the open door of a flying chopper?

Would you do it if it was legal?

Just a couple of civil questions.

quote:

Originally posted by NitroX:
Don

Can you hunt whitetail deer, elk, big horn sheep or whatever you might shoot in Ohio from the open door of a flying chopper?

Would you do it if it was legal?

Just a couple of civil questions.

No and No. But if it was legal, I'd refrain from public ridicule of those who did it! I
guess I'm one of the very few Americans that
still cherish, FREEDOM! The right to do whatever you want as long as it doesn't hurt someone else. A lost concept in America lately?

dont discount the sheer joy of machinegunning from the door of a hilo.


Here we go again with the do it my way or be scum crowd.

this is realy the spirit of the wild and free.

the legal way is not enough it has to be up to your personal code or I cant do it is that it?

All people following a set code of ethics is fine if I get to be benevolent dictator of the world but excuse me if I dont want to follow you as my king.

All these animals are yours to hold dominion over means that I was born to hunt any way I want not by your rules or some ass backward code.

I chose to hunt acording to the law and local custom because I belive it is right. the local representative govt. has set up the laws of nz not anyone else.

I retain the services of a profesional to instruct me in the local laws and customs then follow the instruction. wether it be hogs with a spear or fish with dynamite.

where does this need to follow some nebulus unwriten code come from. It seems to be different for everyone. if you cant tell me what the secret code of rules is how can I follow them. do I just wait for you to deem what i do as wrong then apologise and change?

claiming this guy to be unethical is like claiming he is a raceist I cant argue a negitive and win its imposible.

please excuse the rant but to be on point follow the local laws and customs should be enough for anyone.

f a bunch of spelling and punctuatin thanks

So lets get back to my still unanswered question. No one seems willing to answer it.

OK it may be legal to shoot a deer in a 10 acre pen. It may be legal to shoot a chamois from a chopper window, or spot them from it, jump out and shoot after a 50 metre hike to peer into the next gully.

But ...

PLEASE SHOW ME ONE TROPHY HUNTER WHO WILL ADMIT THEY DO IT? AND SAY SO UNDER THEIR "TROPHY" PHOTOS?

That answers the question to me of whether it is a 'sporting' method or not.

All this freedom talk is just irrelevant guff. Someone please close the door on the "Political Forum".

quote:

Originally posted by NitroX:
So lets get back to my still unanswered question. No one seems willing to answer it.

OK it may be legal to shoot a deer in a 10 acre pen. It may be legal to shoot a chamois from a chopper window, or spot them from it, jump out and shoot after a 50 metre hike to peer into the next gully.

But ...

PLEASE SHOW ME ONE TROPHY HUNTER WHO WILL ADMIT THEY DO IT? AND SAY SO UNDER THEIR "TROPHY" PHOTOS?

That answers the question to me of whether it is a 'sporting' method or not.

All this freedom talk is just irrelevant guff. Someone please close the door on the "Political Forum".

Nitro, I hate to tell you, but it IS politics when one person tries to inflict his views on others! Hell, man, that's actually the crux of politics!

You might as well drop the subject since no one is going to change his points of view.

You see the other side as unethical wussies and the other side sees your side as arrogant and self-righteous.

Let this damn thing die! Two civil questions for you since I answered yours.

Why is this subject so damn important to you,
and why is it so important that the rest of us
conclude your point of view is the correct one?

For me personally, I find when it comes right down to it, I really don't care what some hardhead down under thinks of my hunting methods. Not a put down, sir. Just a fact of life.

as clearly stated if you are the arbitor of local custom then absolutely no one in aus would hunt that way.

you are not .

I wont even let them measure my stuff for the book so I guess im not a trophy hunter.

and If it were legal and acording to local custom I would hunt from a helo and show the pictures.

when I hunted nz I just walked out from base and shot a stag on the next mountan. then went down into the valy and retreved him because thats the way my paid ph reported it was done. if he had said first we fly around in this helo then get out and shoot him I supose it is how I would have done it. so what. and what buisness is it of yours/ who are you to judge others. I totaly understand if you dont hunt that way and leave you to your means so why not reciprocate.

ill leave the "freedom guff" to the convicts if you like.

Let us not forget that NitroX thinks there is nothing wrong with "hunting" from the back of a Landcruser while chasing down game is a "fair chase" hunt. He probably also supports the use of spotlights for hunting.
Any of those things will get you jailed here (the States), but he's hung up on the idea that someone using a different form of trasportation/shooting platform is unethicle.

Hunt the mountain by foot you lazy little bitch.
and pack all my gear to the top while your at it. Now get on it before i kick your ass.
HA, HA . too funny
Timan