quote:

Originally posted by Tailgunner:
Let us not forget that NitroX thinks there is nothing wrong with "hunting" from the back of a Landcruser while chasing down game is a "fair chase" hunt. He probably also supports the use of spotlights for hunting.
Any of those things will get you jailed here (the States), but he's hung up on the idea that someone using a different form of trasportation/shooting platform is unethicle.

Do I?

I think I got quite badly criticised once by some Aussies for suggesting spotlighting game animals is not sporting.

Also funny how something could be sporting or "ethical" in one country but considered not in another(?). For the same species. Guess some might think anything legal is "ethical".

Anyone yet care to admit shooting a stag as a trophy in a small pen or out the window of a chopper?

Thanks for the post.

quote:

Originally posted by NitroX:
Anyone yet care to admit shooting a stag as a trophy in a small pen or out the window of a chopper?

Thanks for the post.

Come on fellows! If you have done it, please share your hunting photos!

Nitrox

The last deer I shot was with a hornady SST. Hope that's ethical. Sorry it wasnt a solid.

I also used a rifle and a scope. Should I have picked up a rock, chased down the deer (in bare feet and a G string) and beat it over the head. Opps, I forgot deer dont have opposable thumbs and cant pick up a rock to defend themselves.

I know, next time I go hunting I will take my paper mache antlers in case I get onto a stag and have to take it on in a fair fight.

Hope I dont lose, it will ruin my relationship with baaaaarbera and beeeeetrice, my really good friends (in the way all Ausi's will understand).

Youve posed the question about penned hunting so often it sounds like some sort of meditative mantra (perhaps obsesive coumpulsive disorder would more accurately decribe it). I ussully try not to stand on cracks in the pavement, is 'bad hunting ethics' worse. Hope not or I am damned forever.

Have you ever thought that perhaps nobody awnsers your question as you are the only one who cares, and no-one else gives a stuff.

I dont know why you feel the need to turn every thread into an ethical debate. Are you a philosophy lecturer??

I will post two in a row just to keep you company.

Hope you dont ming

even though everyone seems to have gone off the topic, and are commenting on ethics, i'll put my two bob in!
just have a read and maybe a chuckle....

Dont they talk about a main objective of hunting about killing humanely? Humane meaning: Marked by an emphasis on humanistic values and concerns.
What about the good old christianity thing about "thou shalt not commit murder"- murder being: The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice. Or even the Buddhist beleifs, about being no "need" to take any life reguardless?
if you really want to "go there" is there a necessity to hunt?
Do we eat the animal which dies on our whim?
there is no "survival of the fittest" with projectile weapons, every projectile launches faster than the target can move, otherwise it wouldnt be employed!
Yes, a 300win mag can knock a rabbit of a mound at 900m, sure it's an instant death, sure, the dogs will eat the bits they can find, but is it neccessary?

I read an article a few months ago about a lad, recently made quadraplegic via a car accident, who had a mount made for his wheelchair so he can still go shooting.... sorry, but WTF??? my thoughts are if you cant control your arms (or legs) how can you control a rifle? had he a mouthpiece on the bolt? how does he reload?
sure, "overcoming adversity" but ... i'd leave the area if he was there, i dont consider that to be safe, let alone ethical.
Fuck it!! teach an octopus to shoot, that'd be cool too!

do we need "trophies"
how cool is it to have the head of a beautiful animal?
forget the fact that if that animal had the chance to breed, there would be more beautiful animals the next year?
have any of you heard that "there were more plentiful and better quality trophies a few years ago"?
or seen the massive stag horns over "uncle jeb's" fireplace?

why are "those" trophies harder to come by?

maybe in the nature of humans, to rule with greed and waste, reverse darwinism is happening?
the nice, many horned stags are being killed off, and the small stubby horned bucks are being ignored to breed and continue their genes....

By no means will i give up shooting, be it for sport, for pest control, or even for work.
Yes, i do shoot pistol, rifle, shotgun and bow, and have taken animals with all but pistol (kinda illegal down here...)
maybe because i'm fit, i dont mind lugging mt gear up a hill to get a few good shots away, and i dont see a problem with using a chopper/ quad bike/ ute/ boat/ horse to get to the shooting area efficiently, but it's a marked difference between shooting and hunting. shooting is getting to the target efficiently, dispatching it quickly, and going home and having a nice cuppa. Hunting is moving quietly to an area, finding sign, tracking and getting as close to the target as possible, dispatching it instantly, then getting out with the trophy (well earned), usually the same way you got in, leaving little sign to scare any game from the area for future hunts.

Like the difference between infantry and snipers.

As for the soldiers in iraq and afghanistan, yep, they volunteered to join, they didnt all volunteer to go there though, it's part of the job. and when most of the front liners who saw anything get back, they wont want to be anywhere near a weapon for a few months. not if they're mentally stable. and even if they're not, there's no thrill in a target that cant shoot back. may as well be tied to a tree.

How do i know? it took me nearly 2 years to get back to shooting after my last deployment.
and i'd been shooting since i was 13.

kinda takes a lot of the fun out of it.


but back to the topic,
accidents do happen, the lucky live another day.
be the best person you can, the only person you have to live with is yourself!
and only you konw what you've done.

peace

I don't think you can "murder" an animal, except for a human?

quote:

Originally posted by TJ:
I don't think you can "murder" an animal, except for a human?

legally, no, you can only murder humans, but to call it "humane" indicates humanlike attributes, but either way the mechanics are the same- by ceasing it's normal function of living.

In answer to the post(s) directed at me:

quote:

Originally posted by NitroX:
Anyone yet care to admit shooting a stag as a trophy in a small pen or out the window of a chopper?

It's a simple question.

There is a book put out by the New Zealand Mountain Safety Council called 'Managing Risks in Outdoor Activities' which makes interesting reading if you are so inclined.

While deaths in the outdoors are often attributed to a single cause, ie he fell down a cliff, there is ussualy a number of causal factors that contributed.

I have not seen anything in this thread that identifies why exactly the hunter fell. There are a number of posts that seem to assume he was dropped off in a dangerous location, would have survived if he had walked into the same location, or that his death is somehow the result of poor ethics.

Managing or mitigating risk is something that most people do without thinking when they have experience in the situation. If you have no experience, identifying, assessing and mitigating the risks is not quite so straightforward. If you have no experience on ice, you may not realise how difficult it can be to self arrest (with an ice axe) on even a moderate looking slope. I would not venture into the outback of Australia without getting advice or otherwise learning what to take to survive if my 4wd broke down.

Aside from the fact that your chances of getting an animal are higher, using a hunting guide is also a good method of risk mitigation. You are using the guides experience and knowledge to identify and mitigate risks in an environment you may have little or no experience in.

There is an inherent risk in all outdoor activities. Hunting has a relatively low death rate in NZ compared with other outdoor persuits. I think the most deaths in the outdoors are while fishing.

I hunt on my own. I have assessed the risks, based on my own experience in the outdoors, and prefer to hunt where there are no other hunters about. If other hunters are in a hut, I will find out where they are hunting that day and head to a different area. For the same reasons, I dont hunt in the roar (I hunted in the roar during Easter once and did not enjoy the experience). I am going to get a EPIRB in case I get injured tho.

Hunting itself had nothing to do with why this poor guy died. He just happened to be a hunter. He could have just as easily been a tramper, skier or mountianeer dropped off from a helicopter.

The Coroners report may shed a little more light on the subject.

Good Lord !!! I am truly astounded !! A non-accusatory , non-judgemental,non Holier-than-thou response to an unfortunate event that claimed the life of a man in the mountains.

I await with anticipation the responses that this little gem of intelligence may bring to this otherwise worn-out and pointless thread - although doubtless the actual thread will once again get turned into a personal grandstand for people with much higher morality than I .

quote:

Originally posted by Smudge:
There is a book put out by the New Zealand ......The Coroners report may shed a little more light on the subject.

Well said Smudge!
look forward to more of your posts!
welcome to AR!!!