been following the news and wondering if there is any hope that the anti gunners will get overturned and you guys get to keep your guns?

Sporting rifles - ie non-military - will be fine . Most people wont see any differance at all. The guys with the ARs and AK47s will lose them. Thats about all we know to date - your media speculation is way ahead of its self - looking for political gain at home no doubt.

The problem is that when the semi-autos are gone there are only the sporting rifles left,then they will be in the antis sights.

Does the NZ government think that the crims/nutters and fanatics are going to hand their own autos in?

Guys - we dont even have the fine print yet . Theres lots of speculation and fools talking on social media about how to get round the law changes.Untill we actually have the wording in black and white we simply dont know.

Spot on.

We are very different society. Gun rights are not a big issue unless you are Gun City and a small group or Phillip Alpers!

Per capita we have more guns owners that America.

The shooter used a shotgun and I am not sure if semiauto shotguns are part of the ban. I saw on TV that semi auto .22 and shotguns for duck shooting were not in banned list.

For over 20 years I have been visiting gun shows here - very small affairs of about 100 tables in 2 halls in a hotel . The part that always bothered me was that there would always be a few guys with partly shaved heads, swastica tattoos and military clothing & jack boots.

quote:

Originally posted by muzza:
Sporting rifles - ie non-military - will be fine . Most people wont see any differance at all. The guys with the ARs and AK47s will lose them. Thats about all we know to date - your media speculation is way ahead of its self - looking for political gain at home no doubt.

I gather the government will at least compensate owners for banned weapons. Here in Canada that would not happen.

Grizz

they say there will be a buy back. Time will tell - they are politicians after all so cant be trusted.

Registration is pretty much a given as well , along with other restrictions that they havent let on yet.

The AR15 type rifles with big mags and select fire are already registered so getting them back wont be difficult , its the huge number of "A" category military semi autos that will pose a problem. Not registered so most of those will go to ground - literally

Registration - what a useless monstrosity that is.

Hopefully it doesn’t come your way. Adequate penalties for illegal possession and criminal use of a firearm should come way before registration.

The system here is rarely accurate and having to apply for a permit to buy a firearm in your licence category a huge embuggerance.

Certainly puts a damper on those spontaneous purchases

need to apply some of those laws to marriage licenses.

They will blindly follow the Australian example.

This will happen quickly, while the emotion is high about the mosque shootings.

It will have bipartisan support as neither side of politics will want to be "responsible" for future shootings. They need to be "seen to be doing something". Though most people will not recognise their "solution" as just duplicating failed methodologies.

There will be no referendum...……...can't have the people having a say.

It will not work...…….they quote the Australian experience as successful cause there's been no other "Port Arthur" shootings since the 1996 gunlaws……….though there never was before Port Arthur either.

They will threaten you with jail sentences twice what you'd get for murder if you don't hand in banned firearms.

If the banned firearms are registered they know what door to come knocking on.

For your sake I hope I'm wrong...…….but "stay tuned" your ride into this Bullsh*t has only just begun.

Hands up all you kiwis who said that "they wouldn't be game to do that here" when they saw it done to us in 1996.

The evidence is available to prove that John Howard's gun laws didn't even equate to a "blip" on the gun related crime monitor...…...but we told them it wouldn't before they spent $750 million Aus dollars on Howard's knee jerk reaction.

The latest info that forms the basis for changing our gun laws, soon to go through a Parliament debate, is that military style semi autos (MSSA) on A category licences (our normal gun ownership licence) are out.

There has been no ban yet just reclassification,

The additional two groups of semi-automatics which now also fall under the MSSA definition:
• a semi-automatic firearm that is capable of being used in combination with a detachable magazine (other than one designed to hold 0.22-inch or less rimfire cartridges) that is capable of holding more than 5 cartridges; and
• a semi-automatic firearm that is a shotgun that is capable of holding more than 5 cartridges. For further information go the Police link which is; https://www.police.govt.nz/adv...ety/changes-firearms.

The police link explains further that pump action and semi auto shotguns with tube magazines are okay provided they do not hold more than 5 rounds. Extended tube magazines on pumps and autos were banned last year in some game-bird areas in NZ and likely to be banned in more areas by the game-bird regulations irrespective of any firearms law changes.

Most sporting configuration semi-autos rifles with detachable magazines only hold five or less so nothing will change. There are proposals for exemptions for culling operations where larger magazines are allowed.

Realistically the loss of the MSSA and assault rifles or any hunting weapon with a large magazine capacity is no big deal as far as hunting goes. Sure this infringes on some groups "rights" but we have never had an out and out right to firearms in NZ, we don't have a constitution let alone one such as the USA does which provides for a right to bear arms, as tenuous as that is anyway

Eagles assessment is correct.

However, there will be a new round of announcement this week. Apparently the changes are a "double whammy" and the second bit will probably come tomorrow.

pointless to speculate what this would be.

However, any of this has yet to go to Parliament, and no laws have changed yet.

I only have bolt action sporting rifles, and like most hunters in New Zealand, this will not effect my hunting.

As said above, there is no presumed or legal "right" to have a firearm in this country. There is no such comparable second amendment type thing.
There is therefore no point in non-compliance, you would simply be breaking the law for no purpose.

The Americans seem outraged that NZ'rs would follow these law changes, but this is not America, the law is different and the attitude towards firearms is not the same.

I agree with eagle like I said before.

In NZ it is a crime to use a firearm to defend yourself. Even threatening someone is an offense.

Court rulings have been more lenient. About 20 years ago a guy shot and killed an intruder with an illegal pistol. In the end he was not convicted for murder or even man slaughter. But he did face firearms charges. It was tough legal battle for several months.

I have bolt guns and break action guns. So I am unaffected.

I am extremely wary of Rambo wnabes with MSSAs. I am extremely wary of private militias. They seem to be the kind of people who may not care about MY rights.

guys - it isn't about hunting

In NZ it is ONLY about hunting and target shooting. I do not NEED any guns for any other purpose and no one else does.

We do not even lock our doors and windows most days when we go out. We rarely lock our cars. I hope it never changes.

The gun rights issues and gun lobby politics in the US do not apply here by culture, law, tradition or practical needs.

In Australia the far right One Nation Party has just been busted for seeking millions of $ in funding from US gun lobby. This is just an attempt by the far right to stir up hate and division with potential gun violence. This is totally unacceptable to import / export US gun culture into other countries that do not have any cultural or legal relevance to it.

quote:

Originally posted by butchloc:
guys - it isn't about hunting

"In Australia the far right One Nation Party has just been busted for seeking millions of $ in funding from US gun lobby. "

And so effing what Naki?
If they are helping fight the 'others' that is the antis and greens that don't want me to have a firearm,shoot anything,ride a horse,catch a fish or even eat meat I say thank you.
Why dont you have a look at the rest of the political parties that get under the counter political donations eh...seems to me that you are swinging to the anti vote yourself.

I must be a Rambo Wannabe

I dont have any of "those" firearms either , but if we dont stick together on this we will all lose out .Stay united and fight or fractionate and get picked off one ineffective whiny little group at a time . Why are kiwi gun owners so f*cking stupid???

Because Muzza, to support MSSA owners means you are pro Trump racist.

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:

...We do not even lock our doors and windows most days when we go out. We rarely lock our cars. I hope it never changes.

California used to be like that 50 years ago. I hope it never changes for you, but take a lesson from history.

I celebrate you gents for "sticking to your guns". Although everything in the US is polarized and political the firearms right is one you must NEVER concede to the sheep of the left.

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
In NZ it is ONLY about hunting and target shooting. I do not NEED any guns for any other purpose and no one else does.

We do not even lock our doors and windows most days when we go out. We rarely lock our cars. I hope it never changes.

The gun rights issues and gun lobby politics in the US do not apply here by culture, law, tradition or practical needs.

In Australia the far right One Nation Party has just been busted for seeking millions of $ in funding from US gun lobby. This is just an attempt by the far right to stir up hate and division with potential gun violence. This is totally unacceptable to import / export US gun culture into other countries that do not have any cultural or legal relevance to it.

quote:

Originally posted by butchloc:
guys - it isn't about hunting

the antis do think you do not need any guns at all ... we are our worst enemy ...

If you follow the line of "I don't need one so nobody else does" the antis will get you all that more quickly.

You're not a big enough group to survive division.

We faced that here...……...and look what happened.

We had Olympic shooters and shooting organisations backing the government line...……...cause they didn't need/want that type of firearm.

I never had any military style semi autos either...…..never wanted one...….but that does not mean the next shooter doesn't. While it's their money ………… and they behave themselves with it...……..it's none of my business what kind of firearm they buy.

You guys don't get it. Our mindset is not the same as yours.

We in NZ are per capita more gun friendly than the US. We just do not have a history or a mindset of shooting each other.

Now the US and Australia have a long history of "wild west" gun fighting, "sport hunting" of indigenous & minorities people, armed police, people carrying guns for self defense etc. We do not.

This idea of approaching a foreign gun lobby for funding is criminal. It is like approaching China or Russia or some other foreign power for funding to manipulate local politics. It is treason, plain and simple.

Look at what is happening right now - no one is ranting and raving against our sporting arms or even debating banning semi auto shotguns and .22 rifles etc. Remington 760 (?), Winchester 100, Browning BAR, H&K etc. in hunting calibers are not even up for discussion.

We do not need a Pauline Hanson or a Donald Trump here in NZ. Our politics is good for us.

In fact Jacinda Adern is making a huge impression globally for here decisive and compassionate leadership.

You clearly know nothing of New Zealand history,I bet Maori would have real issue with your comments

The Maori will not have an issue with my comments because I am talking about citizens and (not military or government tyranny).

I live in Taranaki and not far from Parkihaka.

I wish you would look seriously at my TOTAL post and not nit pick and misinterpret a tiny bit.

I also wish you would use passive language in a debate rather than passing judgement !

Or what? You will label me a racist

Boys - we are all in this together . We cant afford to become fractionated- that only plays into the governments hands.

If we are going to go down the "I dont use those guns so I dont need them " path then we will all get f*cked up the arse without lube , so lets not fight amongst ourselves.We are all in this together , once again.

I agree with you mate. No issue with you at all.

But seriously, do you think a quarrelsome, arrogant, rude, irresponsible idiot should be allowed to own any guns at all?

quote:

Originally posted by muzza:
Boys - we are all in this together . We cant afford to become fractionated- that only plays into the governments hands.

If we are going to go down the "I dont use those guns so I dont need them " path then we will all get f*cked up the arse without lube , so lets not fight amongst ourselves.We are all in this together , once again.

Geezuz naki get off your high horse and slow down a bit ffs.
You may be on a roll but you are trying to roll uphill

naki - that question is one for the Vetting Officer who makes the call. We can all be argumentative , quarrellsome and difficult if you rub us the wrong way - its working in this discussion already.

I dont know who you have in mind with your statement , I know lots of people who fit that bill , and others probably think it fits me too but actually its not yours or my call - its the NZ Police who decide that . Both as part of the initial vetting system for your first licence , and thereafter when you do a renewal.

Incidentally - dont be surprised if the renewal period is much shorter , and dearer than previous.

But ultimately - we do not know what the Politicians have in store for us - even the Police change their information on a daily basis so instead of fighting amongst ourselves we need to sit tight and stop throwing each other under the bus .

quote:

Originally posted by muzza:


If we are going to go down the "I dont use those guns so I dont need them " path then we will all get f*cked up the arse without lube ,

Well I got some Imperial Wax on my reloading bench so I should be okay


Now really seriously, we have here in NZ probably the most open and lenient hunting laws and opportunities than anywhere else in the world. For the most the established target sports and hunting sports are universally accepted here and there are several hunting shows on public TV channels showing most of our forms of hunting in an good light, some of these do show quite graphic scenes of squealing pigs being dogged, held and knifed to death even by youngsters out with their fathers or brothers on the hunt. Slow-mo bullet impacts on game animals etc are all shown. None of the shows are restricted by viewing audience classification, just accepted as our normal way of life. The opening weekend of our gamebird (aka duck) season in May always hits the national news in a well reported way, occasionally there are gun accidents over these opening weekends but usually just reported as something that goes with the sport and not a clamour for gun control.

It wasn't so long ago that silencers or suppressors were illegal in NZ although Police generally did not enforce this too rigidly but now they are one of the most common accessory on firearms, as they should be from a health and safety point in protecting the hearing of shooters in the field. Whats that you say, I can't hear you? Don't I know all about destroyed hearing from shooting, my father often resting his 7mm Magnum over my shoulder to take a shot while I held the spotlight on the animal/s.

Times have and are changing and if it means we give up something to keep something else then like Nakihunter I see no place for MSSA or assault rifles in the ownership of hunters. They will still remain with those having a higher class of licence (E Cat) that already has strict controls on their use for AR type sports on a range but cannot be used for hunting and even a licence holder of the common hunting class of licence (A Cat) cannot use another's E Cat firearm on a range.

There has been a long running battle with police that made it to the courts in relation to the designation of a free standing pistol grip which is one of the items that distinguishes an E Cat MSSA from one that could recently be owned under an A Cat licence. Gun shops just acquired stocks that had a wire attached to the base of the pistol grip back to the butt of the stock and called it basically a thumbhole stock. The courts agreed that while our Parliament intended free standing type pistol grips to cause a rifle to be classified E Cat they hadn't made the law descriptive enough to close this loophole. Likewise an A Cat MSSA could only have a 7 shot magazine but there was no ban on sales of larger capacity magazines making the firearm an E Cat MSSA.
All this had nothing to do with hunting and any person who wanted to take part in the AR type sports could do so legally by joining a club and obtaining an E Cat licence. Similarly handguns have always been banned in NZ for hunting but can be owned and kept at home strictly for competition shooting but you must be a member of an accredited club and remain so, attending so many shoots a year to retain your handgun privilege.

Lastly as mention by others, we do not have a constitution in NZ and we do not have an immovable right in law to own and use firearms, motor vehicles or any other such things. We have privileges but these can be subject to good behaviour and citizenship, changes in law, changes in attitude, changes in circumstance.

I agree with Naki, the behaviour of some (not all but definitely a few) who pimp and tote MSSA's around the countryside emulating a Rambo movie has not done us any favours and we most certainly didn't need a fucking loose cannon Aussie that would have been more at home in the USA wearing a white robe and pointy hood with a couple of eye holes.

Wow....brilliant eagle27! Tell me, what is an assault rifle to you? A scary black gun? A scoped .300 magnum that holds 4 rounds? Then you criticize the US because all you know about it is what's fed to you by the grossly biased media. Perhaps you and the other here are just trolls?

Good luck gents. There's a few "pro-gun" guys in this thread that you don't need on your side.

quote:

Lastly as mention by others, we do not have a constitution in NZ and we do not have an immovable right in law to own and use firearms, motor vehicles or any other such things. We have privileges but these can be subject to good behaviour and citizenship, changes in law, changes in attitude, changes in circumstance

The difference between subjects and citizens.

What will be our downfall is the news media feeding frenzy over anything to do with firearms .The last two weeks the firearms fraternity - apparently we are a Lobby now - has been under continual attack , images of black guns have been plastered across out tv screens , images of overseas shootings ,images of people displaying high cap magazines etc . And all with every man and his dog interviewed and held up as an expert.
Unfortunately there has been zero chance for anyone from "our" side to put forward our view . Absolutely zero opportunity. This has truly been death by news media , which is exactly what out Police and Government have wanted.

You guys from the states commenting can fuck off! In reality all you are interested in is protecting your own rights in your homeland and care more that the example coming from here is going to hurt you, not the interests of NZ firearms users, and many of your comments suck.
Its americans spamming our police sites on the issue thats leading organisations in NZ to mislabel us as Pro NRA and outside the states that does not have a positive connotation.
Also the level of understanding of the position we are currently in is next to zero.
Naki you are wrong too. We have exactly the same history all but on a smaller, shorter time scale as almost every other country.
The basic facts are that before this happened kiwis had some of the easiest, most sensible firearms laws in the world, one of the highest levels of gun ownership and one of the lowest levels of firearms crime. And that was still dropping. It took a foreigner to come here and ruin it for us, and he did so deliberately knowing this would be the result.
Now we are all hurting and being targeted for something we have no part in and have to find our own way through it. Some aspects we will have to accept, some we should try and fight, but we dont know yet until we see what we face.

The One Nation stuff has turned out to be almost a hoax with selective editing.. I watched the expose on it last night,more to come. Bottom line

It didnt happen, re read "selective editing"

Shanks,
In the wake of the shocking Chrictchurch tragedy changes are coming. In what form exactly I can't predict but I'm expecting more compliance and cost for us gun owners. Around the world there are active anti gun activists attempting through political lobbying to shut down most or all small arms ownership. At UN level the anti gun faction constantly attempts to push through multi country treaties with the same aims. The whole pro gun / anti gun struggle is such a political battleground, perhaps nowhere more so than the USA currently, and I think I understand the concerns of our American firearm owning brothers in what may fall out in NZ in terms of renewed gun laws. Some of their comments could be somewhat off the mark in relation to the NZ context ( I haven't read them ) but I would say their concern for our firearms owning future is genuine and well founded, based on the struggle they maintain to retain their firearms owning rights. I think they just identify with what we are perhaps about to face. Comparatively we Kiwis are a little more laid back. To date we could afford to be as public sentiment is not vehemently against gun owners here. Depending on proposed changes that emerge we gun owners may have to be prepared to step up a bit more prominently to assert a good, common sense case.
Disregarding the nutters crimes in Christchurch NZ definitely has very low firearms crime levels. Logical new gun laws and continued good behaviour by gun owners will maintain that status I'm sure.

Muzza

I was not referring to you mate. Not even to grumpy old Gryph.

I was referring to the other person who just started with a chip on his shoulder and making judgemental and quarrelsome postures.

quote:

Originally posted by muzza:
naki - that question is one for the Vetting Officer who makes the call. We can all be argumentative , quarrellsome and difficult if you rub us the wrong way - its working in this discussion already.

I dont know who you have in mind with your statement , I know lots of people who fit that bill , and others probably think it fits me too but actually its not yours or my call - its the NZ Police who decide that . Both as part of the initial vetting system for your first licence , and thereafter when you do a renewal.

Incidentally - dont be surprised if the renewal period is much shorter , and dearer than previous.

But ultimately - we do not know what the Politicians have in store for us - even the Police change their information on a daily basis so instead of fighting amongst ourselves we need to sit tight and stop throwing each other under the bus .

Eagle and Shanks - Great posts. Spot on.

Shanks - Our history IS different - we do not have a history of "wild west" gun fights & lynching like the US & Australia. We do not have a history of using firearms for self defense. We have a specific law prohibiting the use of firearms for self defense.

I have already posted this twice above - we do not need the angst and rabid hype of the US gun lobby (also Aussie). The issues are NOT the same.

P dog shooter - we are not subjects. We are more free than the US. Putin has not bought out our PM or our Parliament! We do not have a pussy grabber molesting our women and defrauding our public.

Norton - you will NEVER have the simple user friendly gun laws in the US like we do.

Just try couriering a rifle across state borders for NZ$25 with no paper work . Try flying across state borders without paper work (only my license is needed). Try exporting a gun to another country without paperwork - no export permit needed. Try getting an import permit in 3 or 4 days. Eat your heart out!

Muzza I do not know what news media you are following. I do not see any of the BS you claim. Not one suggestion to ban semi auto shotguns, .22 or even centre fire hunting rifles like BAR, Win 100, H&K etc.

Oooy Gryph, when is the last time you washed your beard? Good to hear your grumpy tone mate.