quote:

Originally posted by sheephunterab:
With our new socialist Governments here, they are looking at raising minimum wage by 50% so everyone makes a living wage. I suspect that may severely impact the tipping culture here, at least in restaurants. Everyone is expected to tip here....not just monied people.

I'm a fan of Moxie's restaurants and tip 20% there.

quote:

Originally posted by Carlsen Highway:


Guides and outfitters with weak character are taking advantage of their clients by accepting tips from foreign tourists.

That is just a big load of wank. I don't suggest or mention tipping to clients EVER - but I sure as hell wouldn't deny my staff accepting a gratuity from an appreciative client.

The hypocrisy is clear here too - some say its OK for clients to leave a gift but not a tip... wank, wank, wank.

LOL mate your in Australia, whats it got to do with you? I wouldn't get wound up that much about what happens in a foreign country

I have been following this thread with great interest as I will be making my first trip to Australia for a buffalo hunt in July.

First and foremost, I am not a wealthy person. Far from it as I am a teacher by profession and have a small bird taxidermy business which provides the income for my hunting trips.

Somewhat jokingly, I have told my past guides that I am the "least wealthy" client that they will ever hunt with. And, honestly, that is probably the truth.

So, with all this in mind, I will be tipping my Australian guide at the end of my hunt IF my expectations for the hunt are achieved. I consider it a PERSONAL DECISION that I make based on many factors--the least of which is killing an animal.

It is my hunt and therefore my culture as to whether I leave a financial "thank you". I guess it can always be declined if it is offending to the guide.

Well if its with "you know who" they will even massage your sore and smelly hunt feet if it means getting a tip ha ha.

quote:

Originally posted by SDSpink:
I have been following this thread with great interest as I will be making my first trip to Australia for a buffalo hunt in July.

First and foremost, I am not a wealthy person. Far from it as I am a teacher by profession and have a small bird taxidermy business which provides the income for my hunting trips.

Somewhat jokingly, I have told my past guides that I am the "least wealthy" client that they will ever hunt with. And, honestly, that is probably the truth.

So, with all this in mind, I will be tipping my Australian guide at the end of my hunt IF my expectations for the hunt are achieved. I consider it a PERSONAL DECISION that I make based on many factors--the least of which is killing an animal.

It is my hunt and therefore my culture as to whether I leave a financial "thank you". I guess it can always be declined if it is offending to the guide.

That's about it mate. Do what you think is right, tip, don't tip, its up to the client.

bakes after your exhaustive and profitable trip to Africa did you contribute to tips? Yourself personally?

My friend sent me this last week. He was in the South Island somewhere away from Queenstown - for 2 weeks with 2 or 3 mates & they got 4 stags. they flew into doc land and drove into some spots. They had a base camp on a station.

One of the guys missed a 14 pointer!

It looks like helicopter shooting has virtually stopped and the good heads are coming back after more than 30 years!

quote:

Originally posted by Carlsen Highway:
LOL mate your in Australia, whats it got to do with you? I wouldn't get wound up that much about what happens in a foreign country

Posters in this thread happily lump NZ in with Australia.

Regardless, I has some business in NZ and I hunt there when I can... so I guess it does have 'something to do with' me.

Matt the point we are trying to make is this -

YOU KNOW that tipping is not in our culture - (yeh I know your spin on restaurants etc. Just give us a break please.)

YOU KNOW that you pay a fair decent wage to your guides for doing a good job.

YOU KNOW that say $100 tip per day (or even $50 a day) is just not necessary in Oz or NZ, compared to the US or Africa.

Why not just post this on your website so that it is clear and transparent to everyone?

Why should an American have to tip you so much when he has already paid in full for a fair & decent wage for doing a really good job?

Is that not taking advantage of the US cultural habit and exploiting it for unfair advantage, over and above the fair remuneration paid for doing a good job????

At the moment you are hedging around and it looks like you are trying to encourage a tipping habit in the hunting industry in Oz & NZ. You are trying to say in a round about way that it is ok! Really? Then why not say it in a straight forward way & see how it looks / sounds to everyone else!

Given our local situation, that is just not on - to put it very mildly.

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by Carlsen Highway:


Guides and outfitters with weak character are taking advantage of their clients by accepting tips from foreign tourists.

That is just a big load of wank. I don't suggest or mention tipping to clients EVER - but I sure as hell wouldn't deny my staff accepting a gratuity from an appreciative client.

The hypocrisy is clear here too - some say its OK for clients to leave a gift but not a tip... wank, wank, wank.

Good questions Naki!

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
Good questions Naki!

Good questions if you are questioning a moron perhaps. I already stated that I dont mention or encourage tipping in ANY literature.

Interesting that he should mention Africa though - so it is OK in Africa then? hahaha - what a joke.

doc land?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter

Why should an American have to tip you so much when he has already paid in full for a fair & decent wage for doing a really good job?

Is that not taking advantage of the US cultural habit and exploiting it for unfair advantage, over and above the fair remuneration paid for doing a good job????


Given our local situation, that is just not on - to put it very mildly.

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Carlsen Highway:


Guides and outfitters with weak character are taking advantage of their clients by accepting tips from foreign tourists.

That is just a big load of wank. I don't suggest or mention tipping to clients EVER - but I sure as hell wouldn't deny my staff accepting a gratuity from an appreciative client

Matt is not at all saying that a tip is nessasary BUT should a client want to tip, leave a gift or write a note of recommendation then you would be a fool not to take it, perhaps even insulting. After all these hunters are grown adults.

OH you have been to africa plenty of times,whats your go on tipping,do you?
If so what sort of tips to whom?

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
Good questions Naki!

Good questions if you are questioning a moron perhaps. I already stated that I dont mention or encourage tipping in ANY literature.

Interesting that he should mention Africa though - so it is OK in Africa then? hahaha - what a joke.

I dont know about africa myself. But I do imagine there is a heavier reliance on tips there to make up part of a fair wage. I know when I visited Kyrgizstan we were told before hand that our tips would be a large portion of our guides wage. There in lies the difference.
The question As I see it is, Do you clearly state that tips are not expected or necessary?
If its ok in Africa, its ok in africa. Nakis point is there is a difference between America, Africa and NZ.
Not encouraging it, but happily taking them.....


Here is a guy whos asked what the situation around tips is In NZ. Its a common question and those of us that live here know its not necessary and that people are paid well and guides are a service industry where because they are paid well, you should expect quality service without giving extra.
To best inform clients,would it not be simple that you have a guideline on your webpage or email fact sheet that states tipping is not part of the culture and staff are paid properly.
Im guessing no one does because they are happy to take advantage of the culture of visiting clients in any way they can.

Answer the question please. Also the other point I posted ......

Why not just tell them straight that tipping is not part of the culture & it is included already in your price?

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
Good questions Naki!

Good questions if you are questioning a moron perhaps. I already stated that I dont mention or encourage tipping in ANY literature.

Interesting that he should mention Africa though - so it is OK in Africa then? hahaha - what a joke.

Q:I know when I visited Kyrgizstan we were told before hand that our tips would be a large portion of our guides wage. EQ

That's probably a way of reducing their own outgoings!

It was a shocking culture Gryph. every person who you dealt with had their hand out. Everytime a person from the camp picked up your knife or Binos or rifle, their first question was - how much is it worth?
Another crew there at the same time as us told us their guides got angry at the end of the hunt because they didnt gve them their binos as well as the tip.

Thats kind of what Im seeing here, more subtle but the underwritten expression coming through is that clients are still seen as sources of easy money and extras.

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
Good questions Naki!

Good questions if you are questioning a moron perhaps. I already stated that I dont mention or encourage tipping in ANY literature.

Interesting that he should mention Africa though - so it is OK in Africa then? hahaha - what a joke.

I dont know about africa myself. But I do imagine there is a heavier reliance on tips there to make up part of a fair wage. I know when I visited Kyrgizstan we were told before hand that our tips would be a large portion of our guides wage. There in lies the difference.
The question As I see it is, Do you clearly state that tips are not expected or necessary?
If its ok in Africa, its ok in africa. Nakis point is there is a difference between America, Africa and NZ.
Not encouraging it, but happily taking them.....


Here is a guy whos asked what the situation around tips is In NZ. Its a common question and those of us that live here know its not necessary and that people are paid well and guides are a service industry where because they are paid well, you should expect quality service without giving extra.
To best inform clients,would it not be simple that you have a guideline on your webpage or email fact sheet that states tipping is not part of the culture and staff are paid properly.
Im guessing no one does because they are happy to take advantage of the culture of visiting clients in any way they can.

The OP was instructed by some not to tip at all - despite what the OP's OWN 'culture' might suggest. He was told that if he did tip he was somehow doing something wrong by New Zealand. Just a load of rubbish....

Me advertise that tipping is not part of the 'culture'? Why would I do that when I have already stated that some staff are part of an international industry - I know some may find that very difficult to understand. Just because a hunt is located in New Zealand or Australia - doesn't mean that the participants have to be locals, who feel the need to sanctimoniously declare to everyone who will listen that they don't accept any tips. Do you think they are stupid? Some of these guys work in this international industry in multiple countries - some where tipping is an absolute norm in everyday life.

As for Central Asia - yeah well, not relevant.

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
Answer the question please. Also the other point I posted ......

Why not just tell them straight that tipping is not part of the culture & it is included already in your price?

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:
Good questions if you are questioning a moron perhaps. I already stated that I dont mention or encourage tipping in ANY literature.

Interesting that he should mention Africa though - so it is OK in Africa then? hahaha - what a joke.

Why? To what end?

Shanks I hunted with blokes that were engaged in guiding US clients and basically after each client had left it was like " you should see the knife,the bino`s the whatevers given out,one tip was a trip to Mongolia ffs." That was in the early 80`s
I have spurned every offer of a reward for taking anyone out..like you its swap hunts or free from me.

You have excuses coming out your arse Matt.

Either that or you dont understand. Dosnt matter where the guide comes from. Thats just another excuse. When hes in NZ, he is paid fairly and anything he does for his client is part of the service. I would expect good service no matter what from a guide in NZ if they were from a reputable company.
How hard is this for you to understand?
When I was in America this last October, I well understood the culture and reasons for tipping there. I might not think its the best system, but I understand the difference between the states and here, so I paid the tip as is the custom and I asked my American companion to advise me on what was correct. In other words, I adapt my culture to what is accepted whilst in another.
Newsflash for you, Waitressing is an international industry. Go to a restaurant here and you will find young people from all over the world waiting tables. But they are not carrying an expectation to be tipped just because they come from the states to work here. Thats just a crock of shit excuse.

Its a simple question Matt, one you are avoiding. Why dont you have a message of guidance that states, Tipping is not practiced In NZ,All guides are paid a fair wage and all costs and services are covered by your hunt fees.
The answer as I see it that you dont want to because your industry makes extra profit from leaving such statements out at the expense of your clients.
Also because these tips are being paid in cash, your industry is cheating us all out of significant contribution to Tax's.
The OP asked whats the done thing in NZ. Kiwis are telling what it is. Its only someone with self interest whos is muddying the waters.
Hell the first Reply is from an American, and he sure understands it better than you. Why is that? Because you dont want to understand.

I can't believe how hard some will work in justifying not tipping a few extra bucks, when appropriate.

Whilst in the construction industry I was the recipient of many "bonuses" for timely completion, standards of quality achieved, relationships to the clients etc, etc, etc.
These bonuses were also paid to all site staff, regardless of position, when it was earned.
Bonuses were not expected, they were gratuitous.

Many friends and associates here in Aus, involved in a variety of industries, are regular recipients of bonuses in addition to the standard pays and salaries.

When I was in the safari Industry gratuities were left entirely up to the individual client's discretion.
Never expected but graciously accepted when and if offered.
Some clients tipped, others did not, it had no bearing on continuing relationships and certainly never reflected anyone's "culture".

For some to be bold enough to want to dictate the relationship between a client hunter and his professional guide and command to them they do not pay any tips because tipping isn't culturally habitual in their country is infantile.

A tip, gratuity, is a bonus, unexpected, payment made as a gesture of graciousness, and should remain between the client and his guide, regardless of where the hunt takes place.

Tip jars have existed in pubs, cafes and eateries here in Australia and New Zealand, for decades.

Let me tell you why - it is totally unfair and dishonest to not tell the client that they have already paid a full fair price for all costs and service including a very good job well done!

That is what the price of the hunt is in Australia & NZ. That is our culture & our legal & commercial system.

I think it is totally dishonest to charge a full price including all costs and profits and then say that a tip is welcome!

If you want to be tipped, then cut your price for the US market and tell the client up front that you are pricing for US clients and factoring in gratuities.

Just tell your guides as well so they know what the deal is. Let us see how many guides would accept that kind of deal.

Your current position is to get paid in full for everything including FULL wages AND profits and then also accept big American tips on top!

This position of yours will soon be known around .....

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
Good questions Naki!

Good questions if you are questioning a moron perhaps. I already stated that I dont mention or encourage tipping in ANY literature.

Interesting that he should mention Africa though - so it is OK in Africa then? hahaha - what a joke.

I dont know about africa myself. But I do imagine there is a heavier reliance on tips there to make up part of a fair wage. I know when I visited Kyrgizstan we were told before hand that our tips would be a large portion of our guides wage. There in lies the difference.
The question As I see it is, Do you clearly state that tips are not expected or necessary?
If its ok in Africa, its ok in africa. Nakis point is there is a difference between America, Africa and NZ.
Not encouraging it, but happily taking them.....


Here is a guy whos asked what the situation around tips is In NZ. Its a common question and those of us that live here know its not necessary and that people are paid well and guides are a service industry where because they are paid well, you should expect quality service without giving extra.
To best inform clients,would it not be simple that you have a guideline on your webpage or email fact sheet that states tipping is not part of the culture and staff are paid properly.
Im guessing no one does because they are happy to take advantage of the culture of visiting clients in any way they can.

The OP was instructed by some not to tip at all - despite what the OP's OWN 'culture' might suggest. He was told that if he did tip he was somehow doing something wrong by New Zealand. Just a load of rubbish....

Me advertise that tipping is not part of the 'culture'? Why would I do that when I have already stated that some staff are part of an international industry - I know some may find that very difficult to understand. Just because a hunt is located in New Zealand or Australia - doesn't mean that the participants have to be locals, who feel the need to sanctimoniously declare to everyone who will listen that they don't accept any tips. Do you think they are stupid? Some of these guys work in this international industry in multiple countries - some where tipping is an absolute norm in everyday life.

As for Central Asia - yeah well, not relevant.

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
Answer the question please. Also the other point I posted ......

Why not just tell them straight that tipping is not part of the culture & it is included already in your price?

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:
Good questions if you are questioning a moron perhaps. I already stated that I dont mention or encourage tipping in ANY literature.

Interesting that he should mention Africa though - so it is OK in Africa then? hahaha - what a joke.

Why? To what end?

Paul Truccolo

A lot of BS in your arguments.

You are hiding the fact that the system here is totally different to the US & that we price everything including full fair wages & profits.

In the US the guide's wages are bare minimum & the system is designed for decades to top up with tips. The American system assumes that people work harder and give better service if they can earn a deserved tip at the end.

In Oz & NZ that is not the case - as I have highlighted ad nauseum - Our culture is to give top service for the quoted price. No extras.

Bonuses for jobs & contracts in other industries is not the same. Often they are in the contract. When I do a consulting contract, sometimes I do have a bonus clause in the contract. On other occasions there is no such clause.

No one is dictating the relationship between the client & hunter.

What we are saying is to be honest and not rip off the client off! It is blatantly dishonest to charge a FULL price including FAIR Wages & Profits & then accept tips on top.

I detest & condemn this dishonest practice that some want to bring into our society!

quote:

Originally posted by gryphon1:
OH you have been to africa plenty of times,whats your go on tipping,do you?
If so what sort of tips to whom?

I understand that tipping is now apart of "hunting in Africa" so for me I Tip. However I do Not Tip in Aus or NZ (often give gift) BUT if someone wants to tip then that is his prerogative.

quote:

Originally posted by Paul Truccolo:
I can't believe how hard some will work in justifying not tipping a few extra bucks, when appropriate.

Whilst in the construction industry I was the recipient of many "bonuses" for timely completion, standards of quality achieved, relationships to the clients etc, etc, etc.
These bonuses were also paid to all site staff, regardless of position, when it was earned.
Bonuses were not expected, they were gratuitous.

Many friends and associates here in Aus, involved in a variety of industries, are regular recipients of bonuses in addition to the standard pays and salaries.

When I was in the safari Industry gratuities were left entirely up to the individual client's discretion.
Never expected but graciously accepted when and if offered.
Some clients tipped, others did not, it had no bearing on continuing relationships and certainly never reflected anyone's "culture".

For some to be bold enough to want to dictate the relationship between a client hunter and his professional guide and command to them they do not pay any tips because tipping isn't culturally habitual in their country is infantile.

A tip, gratuity, is a bonus, unexpected, payment made as a gesture of graciousness, and should remain between the client and his guide, regardless of where the hunt takes place.

Tip jars have existed in pubs, cafes and eateries here in Australia and New Zealand, for decades.

We're not the ones tipping, have you not understood any of this?

And horseshit to the rest of your post. Another Australian commenting on what goes on 2000 miles away....

Tip jars exist in Sydney. Yep. That's in Australia last time I checked.
And guess what smartass, the money in the tip jars goes to the owner of the bloody café, not the waitresses - I asked them when I was there last.

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by Carlsen Highway:
LOL mate your in Australia, whats it got to do with you? I wouldn't get wound up that much about what happens in a foreign country

Posters in this thread happily lump NZ in with Australia.

Regardless, I has some business in NZ and I hunt there when I can... so I guess it does have 'something to do with' me.

No we don't. And no, it doesn't.

LOL! Tipping in restaurants here in some of the resorts like Rotorua & Queenstown - is shared among all staff equally. Includes kitchen staff and Restaurant manager. They make about $1000 a year for a centre city restaurant. Not $100 a day like the hunting guides!

quote:

Originally posted by Carlsen Highway:

We're not the ones tipping, have you not understood any of this?

And horseshit to the rest of your post. Another Australian commenting on what goes on 2000 miles away....

Tip jars exist in Sydney. Yep. That's in Australia last time I checked.
And guess what smartass, the money in the tip jars goes to the owner of the bloody café, not the waitresses - I asked them when I was there last.

Adam mate - I bet you would tip in Oz & NZ if the wages were not full & fair for the job.

That is the point for me - why the dishonesty of hiding this & taking extra BIG tips from gullible ignorant clients.

I bet that Americans would tip much less or not all if they were told up front about our culture and our system - that the price includes FULL FAIR WAGES and profits for a very good job well done!

I do not have a problem with tips being accepted after declaring this fact up front! That tells me that the client wants to tip despite being aware that a full & fair wage has already been paid for!

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:

quote:

Originally posted by gryphon1:
OH you have been to africa plenty of times,whats your go on tipping,do you?
If so what sort of tips to whom?

I understand that tipping is now apart of "hunting in Africa" so for me I Tip. However I do Not Tip in Aus or NZ (often give gift) BUT if someone wants to tip then that is his prerogative.

LoL, The only place I have seen a tip jar in NZ, is where the targeted clientele was foreign.
Which reinforces the point that we are trying to put across. That those asking or accepting tips are taking advantage of the good nature (and I say this kindly), The gullibility of many foreign guests to our country.

the guideing industry in NZ is made up in most part of a ragtag group of ratbags and cons who put across an air of professionalism.
There is not much upstanding about the industry here. It by and large has a negative effect on our game animals and puts nothing back into management or preservation of those animals or hunting in NZ.
Foreign hunters might not like to see it, and may turn a blind eye to it when it is seen because it suits them too, but is a greed soaked selfish industry that takes whatever it can from whoever it can.
The unfortunate fact is though, we see it and we do try tell you all. There is a very real reason there is such a disconnect between NZ hunters and the guiding industry and its clients.

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
Let me tell you why - it is totally unfair and dishonest to not tell the client that they have already paid a full fair price for all costs and service including a very good job well done!

That is what the price of the hunt is in Australia & NZ. That is our culture & our legal & commercial system.

I think it is totally dishonest to charge a full price including all costs and profits and then say that a tip is welcome!

If you want to be tipped, then cut your price for the US market and tell the client up front that you are pricing for US clients and factoring in gratuities.

Just tell your guides as well so they know what the deal is. Let us see how many guides would accept that kind of deal.

Your current position is to get paid in full for everything including FULL wages AND profits and then also accept big American tips on top!

This position of yours will soon be known around .....

You really are 'special' - how is it that you know so much about the guided hunting industry? How many guided hunts have you actually participated in? Why are you qualified to dictate what outfitters, guides and their inbound clients do in their private dealings? How the hell do you know what profit guides and outfitters are making anyhow?? (not that that has any bearing on tipping generally)

How the hell am I being dishonest in not instructing clients 'please don't tip your hunt' is beyond me - just fucking ridiculous.

Nice little 'threat' you made too ... who are you going to expose me to? Some fraternity of disgruntled Kiwi hunters? Or are you going to complain to American hunters about these nasty tip-accepting guides and outfitters in the South Pacific?

Pretty easy to hang shit on Aussies posting here too - where are the Kiwi guides to defend their filthy tip-accepting habits? Or are most of them as true and pure as the next snowfall?

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
Adam mate - I bet you would tip in Oz & NZ if the wages were not full & fair for the job.

That is the point for me - why the dishonesty of hiding this & taking extra BIG tips from gullible ignorant clients.

I bet that Americans would tip much less or not all if they were told up front about our culture and our system - that the price includes FULL FAIR WAGES and profits for a very good job well done!

I do not have a problem with tips being accepted after declaring this fact up front! That tells me that the client wants to tip despite being aware that a full & fair wage has already been paid for!

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:

quote:

Originally posted by gryphon1:
OH you have been to africa plenty of times,whats your go on tipping,do you?
If so what sort of tips to whom?

I understand that tipping is now apart of "hunting in Africa" so for me I Tip. However I do Not Tip in Aus or NZ (often give gift) BUT if someone wants to tip then that is his prerogative.

Oh shit - my apologies - I see your are the wages controller in New Zealand, I didnt understand that at first.

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
LoL, The only place I have seen a tip jar in NZ, is where the targeted clientele was foreign.
Which reinforces the point that we are trying to put across. That those asking or accepting tips are taking advantage of the good nature (and I say this kindly), The gullibility of many foreign guests to our country.

the guideing industry in NZ is made up in most part of a ragtag group of ratbags and cons who put across an air of professionalism.
There is not much upstanding about the industry here. It by and large has a negative effect on our game animals and puts nothing back into management or preservation of those animals or hunting in NZ.
Foreign hunters might not like to see it, and may turn a blind eye to it when it is seen because it suits them too, but is a greed soaked selfish industry that takes whatever it can from whoever it can.
The unfortunate fact is though, we see it and we do try tell you all. There is a very real reason there is such a disconnect between NZ hunters and the guiding industry and its clients.

I get it - maybe you should have been a bit more upfront earlier; that you have a complete lack of respect for the entire NZ safari industry, its employees - and their clients who are so easily fooled by these charlatans.

Still not giving an honest answer I see Matt....

Clients are in a tough position. I feel sorry for many, respect for others who do things well and anger at some who dont care.

The guideing industry, shit where have you been? This is not the first discussion where such views have been aired. Once again I presume you bring it up now to deflect from the issue.. Again that honesty factor I talked about.

Do not get me wrong. I also dislike this system of subsidising poor wages And yes it is not custom in our country's thankfully, however is someone gets pleasure by tipping then so be it..

quote:

Originally posted by gryphon1:
bakes after your exhaustive and profitable trip to Africa did you contribute to tips? Yourself personally?

No Gryph I didn't. As I said in the topic on tipping in the African forum, I honestly didn't even think of it. Most probably because, as has been said, we just don't tip. I did feel like a bit of a prick and spoke to Saeed about it, and he put my mind to ease.

In this situation if a client wants to tip he can, its his money after all. If the guide is taken by surprise by the tip and genuinely appreciates the offer, then take it in good grace, like the manner it was offered. If a guide expects a tip and gets dirty if he doesn't get one, then he should have a hard look at himself.


That's just my opinion.

Matt

All your bluster just shows that you have been called.

You asked "How the hell am I being dishonest in not instructing clients 'please don't tip your hunt' is beyond me - just fucking ridiculous."

That is BS. I just challenged you to tell the client up front that our culture & system includes FULL & FAIR wages and therefore we do not have a culture of tipping. That is what many tourism booklets here state. As I have said, I have no problem with people accepting tips AFTER disclosing this fact!

I am saying it is dishonest to try and get wiggle room for tips on top of full & fair wages without disclosing ALL these facts to the client.

BTW - my comment was not a threat. The more you bluster and hop around the issue without openly coming out, the more you expose yourself. I do not need to tell anyone! It will not take Americans and others long to read this & make up their own minds.

BTW - many NZ guides are in the same boat. They try to create a climate where tips are ok. DISHONEST in my books.

The NZ guiding industry has not done a lot of credit for itself - elitist attitude to put it mildly. Total arrogance towards Kiwis - in many cases. Illegal live capture, illegal chopper hunts, shooting TAME stud stags with 20+ points behind wire in a paddock. Add to that - a self claimed association with no legal or regulatory standing.

I even know of one well known guide who now does international guiding (part of the inner circle of the brotherhood) who was known for mass shooting of deer in the bush & letting them rot without taking out the meat. No he was not doing any official culling.

I would not tar the whole industry with the same brush. But they make their own reputation.

I still say that IT IS DISHONEST NOT TO DISCLOSE to the international client that your price includes full & fair wages and that our culture does not have tipping as a practice.

BTW - Do you pay your guides a FULL & FAIR wage?

I still don't understand what the fuck its got to do with an Australian anyway?

Why has he crawled out of his billabong to give his opinion for?

The fact that he is a foreign outfitter arguing for gratuities being ''normal'' in another country just takes the cake.

To paraphrase Shankspony's post above, the NZ guiding industry is fueled by sheer greed. Sometimes its just too much for normal people to bear.

quote:

Originally posted by Carlsen Highway:
I still don't understand what the fuck its got to do with an Australian anyway?

Who asked him to crawl out of his billabong and give his opinion in the first place?

The fact that he is a foreign outfitter arguing for gratuities being ''normal'' in another country just takes the cake.

To paraphrase Shankspony's post above, the NZ guiding industry is fueled by sheer greed. Sometimes its just too much for normal people to bear.

There are pages and pages of the 'hunts" undertaken by the more wealthier members of AR and other forums with their ten animals in a week 'hunt'

I wonder why they aren't stepping up to the plate and telling us how much they threw into the pot after such successful hunting.

Yep those blokes that get an 18- 20 point red deer 'outside the ranches farm hunts fence' and a monster fallow buck and rusa and a sambar, maybe a pair of Tahr bulls,Chamois buck, boar,turkey,ducks,and of course one of those blah blah ram`s (wtf?) ha ha
A $50-$100-$150 Grand hunt surely demands a motha of a tip if all of these animals are taken....some of those Gold medal stags shheeesh!
And of course some have a POA Platinum stag as well.
Then maybe I`m out of the loop and that hunt is a lot fuggin more... but then of course the tip is too!

Half the time I could believe that the tip is to ensure that the big motha red stags in the after hunt publicity story were taken in the free and wild paddock and not the crush!