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| One of Us |
will be hunting on the south island during late June 2016 for Tahr and Red Stag. I am booked with a reputable outfitter. The hunting is 1x1 hunter and guide. My question is regarding tipping. I have a set tipping outlook for the U.S. and Africa. What is the general thought? Thank you all for the information. MTG | ||
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NZ is very different from the US when it comes to tipping. It is not in the culture. They pay fair wages to everyone, including food service workers. The guy I went with was straight forward from the time of booking that no tip was expected. (He was the outfitter and guide for the hunt.) We were on a tight time line and I wanted to take the trophies back with me and he and his son processed everything in time for my flight, working late in to the night. I gave him a small tip for all the extra effort put forth to make my heads ready for the return trip and he was very appreciative. The whole experience of not having that tip expectation hanging around the end of the hunt was very welcome compared to some of my other trips. Just one guys opinion. | |||
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CH is correct although unfortunately the practice of tipping has been introduced here especially it seems in the guiding business by well meaning foreign hunters. It is a practice that most kiwis find abhorrent and because our wage, salary and business structure is based on fair return for services, tipping should be discouraged. In CH case it could be recognised that his guide gave an extra service in preparing his trophies so they could accompany him back so in effect CH paid extra for this but it should have been paid exactly as this, not as a tip. Tipping just because a guide is pleasant company or gets you good trophies is not warranted as that is the service the guide/outfitter is being paid for. He shouldn't have any expectation to be paid more by way of tips. I bet anything that he does not tip any other kiwi for providing services to him in NZ. This is a subject that really gets most kiwis and aussies going and in cases where someone would be holding out for a tip here in NZ they would would likely be told in no short order to f..k off. | |||
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Yep,tipping is an absolute bullshit way of ending a hunt. Imo and many others a 'thanks mate' and a handshake are a far better way of signing off on a hunt. I read with disbelief of how someone will tip way over the top of an already super expensive hunt. FFS spending a zillion dollars on a big hunt and then the hand comes out for more..I thought we got rid of Oliver Twist! The only way I would tip is if someone takes a tusk through the ribs that was meant for me! Do you tip the fella that lays the floor tiles or builds the new shed for you? NO! Fuck we dont even tip the local restaurant and very very few do! Posts: 87 | Location: Victoria Australia | Registered: 07 September 2002 | |||
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Tipping is the worst thing you can discuss with a Kiwi . And probably most Aussies as well. As has been pointed out , our culture pays its workers a fair , liveable wage - we have pretty reasonable minimum pay rates set by law , and no one needs tips to survive. Most people here would be offended if they were offered a tip for simply doing their job. Tippng has to be the worst thing America has inflicted on the peacefull world. ________________________ Old enough to know better | |||
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Thank you all for the informative input. I needed this information to be correct during and after our trip to NZ that we are so looking forward to. My intent is to insult no one where ever we travel to hunt or for merely to visit. Yes, we here in the U.S. have fallen into a very deep well regarding tipping. Even to the point where a tip is expected for a person who is being paid to do a job yet still believes the client should tip. In my 33 year career I never once was paid a bonus or received anything in the way of a tip. I did my job, was paid well for quality work and am proud of the outcome. Again I thank this informative forum. MTG | |||
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The following made headline news on Yahoo: "Good old Matt Damon – not only does he enjoy the singular charms of the British country pub, he’s also generous with his tips. According to reports, he spent three hours there, downing four pints of Guinness and happily chatted to locals. But before leaving for nearby Luton airport, where he was getting a private jet back to the US, he dropped each of the bar staff a $100 (£70) tip." Had the venue been a pub in NZ or Australia instead of the UK I would guess the gesture would have been thrown back in his face. | |||
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We tip a $100 a day to the guide pretty well everywhere we go, including NZ. We rarely tip an actual outfitter but always a guide and other staff that works for them. No one has ever seemed offended! | |||
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Nope not really. Most pubs will have a tip jar where you can throw in your loose change and it gets divided up between the staff. But no one will knock back a personal tip of $100 believe me. ------------------------------ A mate of mine has just told me he's shagging his girlfriend and her twin. I said "How can you tell them apart?" He said "Her brother's got a moustache!" | |||
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Of course not, because the damn guiding business has been barstardised with big noting foreigners corrupting the business to the point like everywhere else in the world they can't keep their snouts out of the trough. | |||
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No, people are pretty much the same everywhere. The money will most likely be accepted. Its not the point though. people are already paid fairly to do the job here and its a culture that most of us do not want to see get a foot hold. The ethic around employment and wages is vastly different, and I think much healthier and fairer in Aus and NZ. | |||
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Yep the process now is almost " hey mate what sort of tip did you get off that rich client" " I got nothing...........the miserable bastard" Posts: 87 | Location: Victoria Australia | Registered: 07 September 2002 | |||
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First time in history an Outdoor Writer has ever been criticized for tipping...hahaha. When in NZ/OZ we don't tip at restaurants etc but always have tipped a guide. | |||
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One of my daughters spent a year in the US as a 16 year old exchange student.She visited 9 different states and had a good look around the place. She worked part time at one of those food chain places and even in the US she spoke of how most people didn't tip though she got "five bucks one day coz I was an Aussie" Tips were very poor as were the wages ha ha. Why is it that the monied people are expected to tip? Posts: 87 | Location: Victoria Australia | Registered: 07 September 2002 | |||
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With our new socialist Governments here, they are looking at raising minimum wage by 50% so everyone makes a living wage. I suspect that may severely impact the tipping culture here, at least in restaurants. Everyone is expected to tip here....not just monied people. | |||
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When it comes to tipping big have a read of this aussie. LEGEND! http://www.news.com.au/enterta...f6f6d5c1d84d7a7efa00 Posts: 87 | Location: Victoria Australia | Registered: 07 September 2002 | |||
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I had a relative who worked for Packer at the time of that flip for fortune story. He told us about it then, plus a few others. Blows your mind that someone can have that much. | |||
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So you are saying that tipping is OK in NZ under certain circumstances (extra service) but not expected. That sounds pretty fair to me. Hopefully all the guides there give extra service and earn their tips that they happen to receive. A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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We see these Ship Cruises advertised and while I will never go on one I think it is refreshing to see that some of them have a "no tipping policy" I don't think that of all of the "Hunts for sale" sites I have viewed do the same! Posts: 87 | Location: Victoria Australia | Registered: 07 September 2002 | |||
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I don't see cruise ship workers staying up an extra couple of hours to skin your critter so you can still go hunting early next morning. Or various other things... A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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I`m not so sure..I have heard from a few that some staff come up with extra`s that have been really welcome.Skinning other critters that is. Posts: 87 | Location: Victoria Australia | Registered: 07 September 2002 | |||
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No Matt, I make the point that payment for extra services should be treated as just that even though it maybe adhoc. There are lots of extras tacked onto safaris or hunts that are advertised before e.g. dip and pack (if you need it) etc., and I have no problem in either the guide asking for extra to cover a specific extra cost that has arisen or the client offering to pay for that extra cost. Tipping seems to be just a straight out payment for something that is not defined other than for 'service rendered', but that is what you pay for when you go on a hunt or in a restaurant or hotel etc. To provide the best service should be the aim of the game for anyone, not defined by the size of an expected tip. It is possible/likely that tipping had origins in backhanders for ensuring one gets service ahead of others or gets the best seats or whatever, and many of us call that bribing. Others seem to tip to boost their own feeling of goodness or whatever, I personally find that a demeaning sort of situation and depending on the country where it is practiced, tends to hark back to colonialism. Recently I stopped on my way home from work (5 minutes from my home) to see where a couple of young hitchhikers on the side of the highway were going with a spare wheel, jack and wheel spanner to hand. Ended up driving these young Germans a considerable distance to their broken down car, checked to see they were okay to get mobile again and then returned home. They didn't offer anything for that service and I expected nothing and would have been offended had they done so. To pay big money in any country for a guided hunt with various fees for the different services and then for the guide/outfitter to expect a tip 'for service rendered' is just greed which I have and always will describe as a snout in a trough. What happens in Africa or the US or Canada is probably beyond redemption now but I just wish visitors to NZ at least would just leave that practice back in their home country when they come to mine. Don't feed the greedy. | |||
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[quote]It is possible/likely that tipping had origins in backhanders for ensuring one gets service ahead of others or gets the best seats or whatever, and many of us call that bribing. Recently I stopped on my way home from work (5 minutes from my home) to see where a couple of young hitchhikers on the side of the highway were going with a spare wheel, jack and wheel spanner to hand. Ended up driving these young Germans a considerable distance to their broken down car, checked to see they were okay to get mobile again and then returned home. They didn't offer anything for that service and I expected nothing and would have been offended had they done so. [quote] A tip is offered as a token of appreciation for services rendered - never heard of someone being tipped prior unless it is for intended services, hence a bribe. Volunteering one's services in assisting a stranded person is a humanitarian act (unless you run a breakdown recovery service in exchange for payment) has pretty much bugger all to do with tipping. | |||
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I agree that there should not be an 'expectation' of a tip - but you take it to the next level and wholly denounce tipping in the South Pacific - what the hell does it matter to you if clients want to tip their guides or guides are encouraged to offer a greater level of service. If you aren't involved in the industry you should mind your own business. You make it sound like it is some kind of cancer - that's just a load of rubbish. Guides in the international hunting industry these days often guide and host clients in many different parts of the world - not just New Zealand or Australia - they are part of an international industry where US$ is the main currency and tipping with some clients is the norm. Get the hell over it. A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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At this point I feel that some are taking the tipping issue to another level. If I as a client feel a tip is correct I will tip. But.....when I have merely asked a simple question regarding a tip and the issue is hijacked it has gone to another level of discussion. I do thank this forum for their input but believe that the discussion has descended into an argument. All points have merit. I have merely made an inquiry if a tip is appropriate. I did not initially think this would turn into an argument gentlemen. I now will rely upon my own judgement when and if a tip is necessary. During my career I not once was given a bonus or have been tipped. My bonus was the respect that I garnered from my work mates and clients. Yes, a bonus or tip would have made me smile, but did not happen. BTW, I made it very clear to my work mates and management that I was not at work to make friends...but to make a living for my family. Again, I will make the decision and do honestly believe that a tip is not always the norm. But, in some cases is merited. Thank you all for the input. MTG | |||
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MTGunner......having hunted NZ and OZ a few times, I'd say tipping when warranted is common practice by foreign hunters and obviously not by locals. | |||
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I look at the fella`s that have been offered tips and graciously declined the offer/offers as has been related in diary`s of hunts. These are of a different breed eh! Posts: 87 | Location: Victoria Australia | Registered: 07 September 2002 | |||
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Thanks to all but finally a definitive reply from sheephunterab. I will apply as I see fit and if the guide does an outstanding job perhaps a gratuity is in order. Let me make one thing very clear...over a 33 yr. career I never once recv'd. a bonus or tip. Never once went on public assistance or welfare. Perhaps I am too damn proud. But, that is my feeling and was honored by the respect of my coworkers and management. That has been all that was necessary. Again thank you all. MTG | |||
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No Matt, A kind of cancer is a good way to describe it. You start with one group who support it because they benefit from it, and next thing, as happened with me a few years ago in a popular tourist area. suddenly you find the eftpos at the restaurant has a step you go through that asks you what tip you want to pay. My response to the manager. Pay your fucking staff properly and dont bring that bullshit here. We actually had guessed something was up, because the service from the staff had changed since our last visit, we were wondering why they were so falsely perky? Also the far majoriety of us dont get cash backhanders as part of our job to hide from the IRd. I guarantee that the already corrupt guiding industry in NZ is not declaring this hidden cash to tax's as we all have to. Its actually irrelevant whether the guides want or expect tips or what the worldwide industry is up to. What kiwis and aussies are saying is we dont want foreigners bringing tipping culture to NZ. And if as A visitor comming here you read this, please dont tip. We want all industry in NZ to be paid fairly and openly for what they do. We dont want the pretty girl in the shop getting more just because she has a nice arse. I love the bit about minding your own business. Spoken like an experienced gratuity accepter. | |||
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Touche! Posts: 87 | Location: Victoria Australia | Registered: 07 September 2002 | |||
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Most good restaurants in Australia have a tip 'line' on their payment invoice. No big deal, customers can tip if they want to and very many do. I worked in a hotel 15 years ago and the bar staff would get a reasonable amount of tips each night - especially the girls (of course). It wasn't expected but the staff appreciated it. Nothing new here - just as it isn't new in the hunting industry - far from it. The repetitious hand-wringing about this topic here is pretty ordinary - little wonder this section of the forum struggles for content. I am an outfitter so I don't get a lot of tips these days myself - but I think it is great when my staff do as it means they are doing their jobs well, often in my absence and above and beyond the call of duty. A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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let he without sin cast the first stone Posts: 87 | Location: Victoria Australia | Registered: 07 September 2002 | |||
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Please, please, PLEASE DO NOT TIP outfitters & guides in NZ. They make a good annual wage & a reasonable lifestyle. They should not be offended if you did not tip. Absolutely not part of our culture. If you really want to show appreciation, just give him a simple gift of nominal value. I once gave the guide a rifle cleaning kit that was flexible and packed in a small tin. That was 20 years ago & the Otis kit was not common in NZ. He really appreciated it & it cost me about $30. I am sorry to say that some in the Hunting industry in Australia & NZ are starting to create this expectation of tipping particularly from US clients. This is just greed. Some here have argued in a round about manner that it is ok to tip in NZ & Oz! Again greed - just wanting to take advantage of American habits and presumed wealth. They have already charged you for full wages, costs and profits! Yes - full and final settlement of all bills. If your outfitter / guide suggests tips, I would recommend that you cancel your booking with him. Seriously. Those are very BIG alarm signals if you ask me! BTW - I personally get really annoyed with those who think it ok for them to get tips from Americans because the Americans are happy to tip and it was their wish. I think this is just dishonesty shrouded under some misguided logic. I have seen NZ tourism information books stating clearly that we do not have a culture of tipping. My 17 year old son starts his first job next week in a supermarket and will be paid a youth wage of $14.50 and after 3 months he goes to $15.50 and another 3 months later he will be on $17.40. Those are our laws, systems & culture. This is NOT the US where an adult gets $7 or 10 or even $15 an hour for any job. "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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I am deliberately adding this bit - separately. For about 2 years - I was a lecturer teaching Post Graduate Hotel Management professionals until a couple of years ago. I taught 3 lots of international students from around the world. Ages varied from young 20s to over 40 years old. Some worked on cruise ships around the world. Please do not compare working conditions across industries. The Cruise liner jobs are not fun. They work 70 to 90 hour weeks without weekend breaks. Alcoholism, drug abuse, indiscreet sleeping around and other issues are common in the industry. Plenty of info on the issue is available on the web. They are schmoozing and ass wiping with plastic smiles 24 / 7 on cruise. They work beyond the call of duty ALL the time. Many are abused, disrespected and plain ignored. In Australia and NZ any hunting guide who is not paid a fair full wage to do his job really well, should change outfitters. The outfitter who does not pay a full fair wage to his staff should be driven out of business. On a side note - In the last 8 months I met some of my former students in 2 different resort establishments. On both occasions they came and greeted me when I was not aware of them & in both cases they gave me either vouchers for drinks on the house or refused to accept payment for an order. I was totally taken aback and a bit embarrassed. But this was just genuine appreciation shown by former students to a former teacher. In one instance, a second former student came to my table later after hearing that I was there and greeted me & my family very courteously. I was sincerely touched by their gesture. No they were not tipping me for doing a good job 2 years earlier!  "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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To have the guide company 'suggest' what sort of tips would be appropriate for the who`s who on the hierarchy ladder is an impost. It stinks! We as hunters don't want or like tipping..the other side welcomes it ha ha! Posts: 87 | Location: Victoria Australia | Registered: 07 September 2002 | |||
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We never even heard of tipping except on American movies. Put it this way, when I go with the same guide that MTGunner does, on the very next hunt right after him, I will not tip the guide and they wouldn't expect me to. Guides and outfitters with weak character are taking advantage of their clients by accepting tips from foreign tourists. They should politely explain that it is not necessary and that they have already paid in full for excellent service. | |||
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Note that the guy all for it is - one - an outfitter, and two - in Australia. It suprises me not at all that Aussies are taking advantage of their customers like this. That's the convict coming out.  They can't help it. But here, we hold people to higher standards of decency. | |||
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Well Matt I seem to have hit a raw nerve. I make no apology for anything I have said despite the fact that you may take some affront to the language I have used. Fellow posters have made it very clear that they are of the same mind to me as have many more on other posts of the same subject including our site host. I also make no apology to MTGunner,you asked the question and I think you have got an emphatic answer. I wish you all the best for your hunt here in NZ and irrespective of what you do in terms of payments I know you will have a great experience and get to meet some great people - shoot straight. Will look forward to a report Just to brighten things up and to get you licking your lips, hopefully you will score on animals as good as these free range ones, a summer 14" bull tahr, a winter 14.5" bull and a good well conditioned red stag taken this month during the roar, the biggest among quite a few roaring on the open mountain tops about an hours drive from where I live. Animals taken by my nephews.    | |||
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Shit those are some good animals! | |||
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