This fall I did a drom camp in a very remote area of Idaho (in fact, we didn't see another person the whole week). It snowed the night before the return trip. The outfitter showed up late to pick us up and it was about 2 hrs before dark when we set off on the 4 hr ride down the mountian. About a half mile from camp, the pack sting held up near a rock slide because a horse stepped through his lead rocpe. One jumpy horse couldn't st still and things went from bad to worse as a horse and a mule slid down the slide, killing the mule. Gear was scattered everwhere, and the stock was real jumpy now. I had to pack the manny's full of gear up the slide to the trail. By the time it got dark, I was soaked with sweat, the temp was well below freezing, and we were still 10 miles from the truck. While trying to reassemble the pack train a horse ant two mules broke loose ant took off , losing their packs, which included our camping and survival gear. We found them later, and made the 4 hour ride down the mountain in the pitch black and freezing cold. For a while there I was scarred for my life as the situation had all the makings of a disaster.

Who else has been in a wreck? Is it common?

Yes, on 2 of the 4 back trips I have been on, a similar event happened, but quite as severe as yours. I hate horses as a rule, but they are handy for carrying things I do not like to carry.

Been on three horseback hunts, two in WY and one in AK.

To date have never ridden in snow cover. Although I've been told its safer that mud which can be like grease.

My horse has always been well mannered, I beleive they usually give the best horses to guys like me (limited horsemanship). There have been horses in the string that made me nervous, both times it was the guides mount.

One early morning riding out in the dark, not far from camp we met up with a bear in the trail, again the guides mount gave me more cause for alarm than the bear.

Then one afternoon while packing out a bull I had shot, we got into ground bees. Use your imagination!!!

The WY hunts were exciting, but I never rode in country as rugged as AK. Was on a sheep hunt in the Wrangell Mts. Mostly bog country, when possible we would ride the dry river beds and the horses had to deal with the rocks there. Which they did surprisingly well.

So many times ya can't wait to get off that saddle. Then later on after a long stalk up the mtn, what a welcome sight those horses can be!!

I always wear my pack, I can shed and add layers as needed. Once in the excitement of a stalk I left it behind and later on regretted doing so. Never again, keep it with me regardless of how heavy it feels.

Altold my experience has been positive. Nothing like riding a good horse in the mountains.

I've been along with others who have had horse wrecks. I never have myself. But the day is coming, I'm sure. I've had my hands full leading pack horse on many occassions.

Friends had packhorse bump a saddle horse off a cliff in the San Rafael. Horse fell 40 feet and broke it's neck.

They also had a horse get loose during the night up in Yellowstone. Some hunters found what was left of it two weeks later, the bears had eaten it.

Had to shoot a horse that broke a leg going into Hawks Rest in Yellowstone.

Woke up one night while elk hunting. Looked out to at highline and saw one too many sets of eyeballs looking back. An extra horse had joined my string for the night. He wandered around camp and layed down to roll by my buddy's trailer. As he rolled he got cast under the tongue of the trailer. Kicked the crap out of his new toy hauler trailer, busted up the generator, and finally KO'd himself hitting his head on the tongue of the trailer.. I drug him out from under the tongue and he woke up and trotted off.

Had a moose come into camp and steal the horses hay. The horse went crazy trying to get away, but the leads held until we could chase the moose off.

We had horses go down in quicksand while crossing small streams in the desert.


But I wouldn't trade my horse. They are great companions. I ridden up many a dark trail in the pitch black darkness and have had to trust them completely.
We ride in the winter




We pick our way through rough country and easy country

Had one in the Church Wilderness in Idaho. After packing in 7-8 miles, was leading my pack horse, dallied around the horn and felt the lead rope go tight as we were walking across a pack bridge. I let go of the lead rope, got to the end of the bridge, and turned around in the saddle, thinking I'd snag the lead as she came by me. Unfortunately she was upside down in the river, our wall tent and heating stove were rolling down the white water already about two hundred yards away. The horse clambered up a boulder strewn bank, cutting one leg so bad she almost bled to death before we found a place in the trail wide enough we could step out of the saddle and doctor her. She was weak enough she went down two or three times, we left her laying and had to lead the others a couple miles, tie them up, walk back and get her catch up to the others, finally getting her out and alive at that. She was a horse we had packed and ridden in the mountains several hunts, and 12 years old. Just goes to show there is no such thing as a bombproof horse, they just all have a breaking point. Fortunately I spent my whole life around cattle and horses and knew better than to tie anything to my saddle or it could have been a real wreck.

If you haven't been in a wreck you haven't packed. My favorite near disaster, though, is the time we were returning, after spending 10 days in the Willmore wilderness.
I was leading a pack horse that was carrying our two ten lb. bottles of propane, when I smelled the unmistakable smell of gas. I asked my buddy to check the valves on the bottles. Frank Keirle, never without the obligatory cigarette in his mouth, stuck his head under the tarp and tightened the one valve, that had come loose. When we stopped for lunch later, we found the entire pack pad soaked with propane. She coulda been quite a show.
Grizz

Been in several such incidents, Idaho is a good place to get in a wreck, its all up or down and not a flat spot anywhere..

I have packed into Shair out of Darby, Mt. into Idaho (SP?) several times and there is a part of that trail where a whole pack train of dead horses and gear lays where it fell some 20 or so years ago..I have stuck horses, high centered them, lost them but fortunatly always found them. and been in some pretty dismal situations over the years, I wouldn't take for the experiences, but wouldn't do it today for love nor money..My packing in days are over, but I still hunt horseback, and camp at the trail head or some more convienient location, even now I have some pretty horrid experiences when I kill and elk in a place that I should know better.

Nothing like a rodeo to wake you up. We have a pack string with 9 mules and three guys. We always have at least one rodeo. We never have had one of our animals die though. sounds like a heck of a ordeal. But dont let that scare ya. LOL

Had a couple bad times but, missed it myself by luck, good or bad.

One time, Aug '70. Two of us and one un packed horse went into Capitol Peak, CO, up back of Aspen. Supposed to be for Trophy Buck season. Ram season was the same time so there was shooting going on now and then. Horse hadn't been around shooting either.

We screwed up and sent our pack in with a couple other guys that knew the area and were ready to go before we were. We took turns one riding, the other walking with a 40# pack. Something like 11miles, 8000' gain in altitude before we finally found where they dropped our camp where they said it would be at a dandy camp.
Next morning my knee's were swollen up and hurt so bad I was almost in tears. Could barely walk. Every shot the horse would break loose, Bill would go chase it down. Three days later not being in any better shape we decided he'd pack the whole camp out to the truck. Ride back to where I'd made it to, then I'd ride out.

The last 100yds to the trk was a really steep climb up a good trail. He checked the pack and was fine. Half way up the horse pulled him over and off the edge she went scattering camp, tearing gear and high priced saddle up hanging between her legs. Ended up landing in a water filled ditch with the saddle and his rifle under her. Got things calmed down and her up to the corral. Then drove out to get help to come get me. Before they got back with a jeep. I'd come all the way out with just my rifle and canteen. Found our stuff scattered all over hell on the hillside and made piles of it. Went to check and the horse was all buggered up. We loaded things up with the ranchers help and headed home. After the vet sewed the horse up we made it into bed about 2am. An hour later Bill woke me up saying someone's coming in the back door. Digging for my glasses, the lights flashed on in the bedroom, then off. Turned out the wife's boyfriend had come by for a token while I was supposed to be in the mtns hunting. He argued til I hit him and busted my hand, and his cheekbone. THen he took off. Got a medical from the Army at Ft Carson. Claimed he'd hitchiked in the back of a p/up and they'd taken off before he'd gotten in the bed. Cops and medic's knew better, but, stuck to his story. I told 'em the next morning busted my hand while hunting. THey checked the horse and think they believed me. Ended up getting divorced over it.
-------------------------

Some yrs later he and I tried for yrs to get a ride going along the COntinental Divide from top of Wolf Creek Pass to Durango. Everytime we'd planned it, he couldn't go because he had to work. Finally, we got a bunch of guys and big pack train together and I had to work and missed out on it. Lightning hit them. Killed one man, Bill's mule and five horses'. This is the one you may have read about "State Patrolmen hit by Lighting in the San Juans". Sometime in the late 70's, or early 80's. Mighty glad I missed out on that trip.

I'm still crippled with bad knee's 37yrs later.

George

I think the worst experience wasn't while we were packing but rather, just out for a ride. A friend’s horse died. (Vet thinks he ruptured major vessel near the heart.) Went down and died in 5-6 minutes.

We were in a slot canyon. Only about 12 feet wide and several miles from either end. We took the saddle off, cut the brand off and left the dead horse. I'm sure that canyon stunk for several months. It was a high traffic canyon that was popular with hikers. Poor hikers had no room to get away from the stink, You'd have to walk right past the carcass. Coyotes and Ravins probably picked it clean.

I guess the rules are to cremate it, dynamite it, or haul it out. Not enough wood to get much of a fire going in the desert, No dynamite license to buy explosives with and I wasn’t about to haul a dead horse out 5 miles to the nearest road. We felt bad about leaving it, but what do you do?

quote:

Originally posted by Painted Horse:
I think the worst experience wasn't while we were packing but rather, just out for a ride. A friend’s horse died. (Vet thinks he ruptured major vessel near the heart.) Went down and died in 5-6 minutes.

We were in a slot canyon. Only about 12 feet wide and several miles from either end. We took the saddle off, cut the brand off and left the dead horse. I'm sure that canyon stunk for several months. It was a high traffic canyon that was popular with hikers. Poor hikers had no room to get away from the stink, You'd have to walk right past the carcass. Coyotes and Ravins probably picked it clean.

I guess the rules are to cremate it, dynamite it, or haul it out. Not enough wood to get much of a fire going in the desert, No dynamite license to buy explosives with and I wasn’t about to haul a dead horse out 5 miles to the nearest road. We felt bad about leaving it, but what do you do?

Dynamite it??

Sounds like you did the smart thing.

Painted Horse, who made your saddle?

A couple of local saddlemakers. Mine came from Thompson Saddle in Huntsville Utah. He has a couple in the Smithtonian Museum in Washington. I actually got mine 10 years ago when he was just getting started and the price was only $1200. They are now in the 2's

My friends saddle ( one with the Big Roping Horn) came from Judd Saddles in Castledale Utah.

These are both one man shops. They produce 15-20 saddles a year. Pure custom.

If you need some phone numbers, PM me and I'll find the numbers for you.

Yes, I've been in a couple of wrecks. I've seen a horse roll over and break a man's arm, and a horese cartwheel down a slope. No, I don't want to talk about it any more!
Brice

Done a bit of elk hunting horseback, but we don't pack in, just camp on the road, and walk or ride in a ways. Found a honey hole not far off the road and have killed about six out of it. Packed them all out by horse. One year had a big paint foxtrotter loaded up pretty good - he had a rope burn on a rear pastern and didn't like to go up hill. Wound up falling over backward with panniers and two quarters. No big harm done, but we unloaded and went on out went back the next day in a hail storm to pick up the quarters. First year we went in, I had a little gray gelding that was pretty trusting. had never packed him before. My partner shot a little bull up a creek drainage, and wanted to get it out right away. I led Smokey and another gelding in and got out just as it was dark. I have gone back in that place many times, but still can't figure out how I got them two horses up that hill and across to the elk. On that trip Smokey bolted and dropped my rlfle on the logging road. Next day I had a shot at a honker bull and missed - my own fault I thought it was shooting low, but wasn't - it was dead on. Alls I had to do was put it on his shoulder and he was dead dead dead. You can outsmart yourself, as I have proved many times. Horses can save you a lot of work, but the old saying still applies: "The riders grave is always open!" I proved it this year on a big foxtrotter mare that is a bit of a bronc and threw me. Spent 9 days in the hospital with a concussion and cerebral hemorrhage. separated should and two broken ribs in the bargain.

More car wrecks than horse wrecks, been in both and been riding longer than I have been driving by about 15 years I guess....

I ride at least 3 times a week or more and I'm 73 and still on this side of the dirt so I guess its safe enough, but if you don't ride often then I suggest you do your hunting on foot and just use the horse to get you into the area...

I was on an Elk hunt in the Blues one year when it started to snow and didn't stop for three or four days. The Forest department decided to run everyone off the mountain and close the area until things got somewhat back to normal. I was helping an outfitter get his horses off the mountain in about three feet of snow. He had loaded his horses into his trailer and was trying to get down the hill when his trailer slid part way off the road. When he decided to pull the horses out of the trailer, one of the horses lost his footing and pulled his head up as he was sliding down the hill. The lead rope got wrapped around Jim's thumb on his left hand and as the horse jerked his head it tore Jim's thumb right off his hand. Things didn't get much better as Jim wasn't much help without his thumb. We got it taken care of but couldn't find the thumb. We got off the mountain without much more trouble but it was 4 hours before we could get to the hospital. Haven't hunted the Blues since. Horses are great but add another factor to the equation when things go bust.

Real late reply to the post but seems like folks are still reading and replying. I began packing as a pro in 1969 in Idaho in the Chamberlain Basin. Worked the Flyin B and the Root Ranch and up north into the Selway. Based out of Hamilton Montana for a long time. Wrecks were pretty common going back into the Selway and other places. Just never knew when or where they'd happen. I suppose the worst one I recall was when my wife and i were taking a string back from Arctic Point to Chamberlain in blowing snow in the middle of the night. Don't recall why so late but it was close to midnight when a pack slipped under the belly of a mule and it quickly went to shit! My wife was right in the middle of a tangle of lead ropes while I was scrambling trying to get things settled down in pitch black and hands that were nearly numb from the cold. I'm still amazed that none of the stock was hurt or that I didn't get killed, or my wife! I think we were pulling a dozen head of horses and mules that night.
The worst I ever saw was a blowup when a mule scraped a yellowjacket nest off a pine and the whole string went nuts with stings. We lost three over the side of the trail cliff and fortunate that the pigtails broke to prevent any other losses.
Seems like a lifetime ago.... and only back in the 70's. Erv Malnarich, Jack Wemple were a couple of names from back then.

quote:

Dynamite it??

Explosives are the quickest, most efficient way of disposing of horses and other large animals in the backcountry. The current Forest Service policy, at least in Montana, is to get rid of those large dead animals as quickly as possible to reduce human/bear conflicts.

I was a Forest Service blaster for over 30 years and during that time I blew up 15 horses, 2 elk, and a moose.

And as for pack train wrecks, there's a couple of books by Howard Copenhaver, a long time outfitter in Montana's Bob Marshall Wilderness, that are full of good stories of pack train wrecks.

A pack train is just a wreck looking for a place to happen.

lets just say all was smooth till a alarm clock went of in a pannier,gentlepeople welcome to CHAOS!!!

some fun huh!!!