Guys, can someone tell me a little about the 585 AHR and 600 Overkill? Are they simple .505 Gibbs cases necked up or are they based on some other case? What bullet weight and bullet diameter do they use?

Dave

Dave
robgunbuilder invented the 600OK case
900gr at up to 2500fps, no joke, 2500 FPS...

once it was up and running, and AHR saw the case, and a couple of us necked it to .585 just to see, ahr necked it to .585... and should be able to throw a 750gr bullet FASTER than the trex, as the case is larger.

essentially, the 600OK is a 600NE, no rim, with a belt

jeffe

Thanks Jeff!

I think I understand. These two cartridges are the same bullet diameter as the .577 NE and .600 NE but for use in a bolt gun and loaded to considerably higher muzzle velocity, right?

Does AHR make the brass?

Dave

What is the criteria for your ideal gun?
cost?
weight?
bullet diameter?
bullet weight and velocity?
ammo availability?
reloading?

There might be some big boomers next to you from members here you might want to shoot to help aid your decision.

This is the best place to get help and we are lucky enough to have here or know all the people involved in big bores or anything gun related here.

May I humbly suggest the 600 OK over the 585 AHR. go straight without a neck to deal with and be added to Robs "Registered List of the Brave".

In the 550 or 577 there are a couple more options but see if you can hook up with someone who has one near you or go to one of the big bore shoot outs... Big bore nuts tend to want to share their insanity.

If you head to Texas at the gathering Jeffeosso is putting on there will be a 550 there and maybe a 577 or who knows somebody might bring the 600.

Good luck!

History Lesson- I designed the .600Ok after a year of trying to make a 585 NYATI as well as two other forum members NYATI work properly. Ross Seifried screwed up the neck dimension of teh NYATI and none of us could get it to feed with the then existant brass. At the time there were quite a few guys here with 585 NYATI's and maybe only one who ever hunted with one. I struck up a friendship with Dieter Horneber in Germany as he was the only guy who would make brass for us in 1000 piece quantities and he ultimately made good NYATI brass and I figured out how to fix the neck problem. Following that episode, It dawned on me that Virgin 585 Horneber brass was exactly .625 diameter and would fit a .600NE bullet. But how to headspace the thing?
Well I came up with simply putting a belt on NYATI brass. The case was reminescent of a BIG .458 win Mag! We actually turned the first .600OK cases out of Brass. The name Overkill came from a young kid from sweden who used to post here and who was actually really funny( somebody who know!. I harassed him just like I harrass Boomstick to actually buy a real big bore. It was named after him in good natured fun! The name took hold and there was a great deal of interest in the gun. I worked out the dimensions, twist and grooves and then organized a barrel buy from Pac-Nor for 10 members of the forum. I made the first reamer also.Then we Got Dieter Horneber to make the first .600OK brass 1500 pieces ( stamped RG .600Ok) and got CH4D to make reloading dies. Fritz 454 made brass and bullets and the first gun was built on a CZ550
by me and stocked by AHR. ED Plumer at AHR and I talked endlessly about commercializing the gun and cartridge and I happily collaborated with Ed to build guns for any of the guys who wanted them. I trust AHR's gunsmithing and they have gone on to build probably 30 or more .600OK's. BTW we used the CZ 550 action and could only get two cartridges down. ED and I collaborated on AHR's Single stack mag box which really made the system work. I actually proof tested my CZ550 action at 85KPSI ( calibrated Oehler strain guage) before I deceided it was safe and the action could take the bolt thrust.
I built a few more .600OK's on the Granite mountain action and that worked even better. AHR actually reccomends that combination for the .600Ok and if you have the cash its super.However, I know of two guns that were built on Enfield actions also.
Finally, Fritz 454 and I made the OK2 case which was .25 inches longer as the GM action could swallow, to achieve stupid power levels, and then we started necking things down. BTW since literally no one has ever shot the .600OK1 more than once at full power, the OK2 case really never was needed. The First necked down version was the .585 which AHR deceided to commercialize( belted NYATI with more power) and Fritz and I went down to .510 to produce a long range target cartridge for unlimited .50BMG class competition. Thats the whole story as I remember it. I and the forum members here at the time( Jeffeosso was a great supported and made many contributions to the project) learned a great deal about how DGR's really worked from that project and its endless details. People trusted each other, spent a hell of alot of money and helped me through some tough issues. It really pushed the envelope and we learned a great deal about metalurgy, machining, TWIST, three groove barrels, muzzel wall thickness, muzzel brake design, recoil reducers, Pads etc. Stuff thats now pretty common knowledge on this site.
The .600Ok is remarkably shootable at .600NE power levels, but is capable of 2400fps with a 900gr bullet. The .585 will indeed beat the Trex in velocity with the same bullet weight. I like the .620 bullet diameter as it is exactly 5/8 and brass rod is available in that diameter for bullet making. SAFIRI KID beat me to Africa with the first .600Ok and did an enviable job with it. Cases are readiliy available from Jamison and AHR. BTW straight wall cases last forever, I have some going on their 8th reloading. AHR also got the .600Ok registered with ATF as a sporting cartridge, not a destructive device, for which I am greatfull. Try it you'll like it.-Rob

Great history lesson Rob.

Mu advice get both, as they are both great to shoot. One only, then the nod goes to the 600 OK. You will not be sorry!!

Dak

Rob's right, get the 600ok. I absolutely love mine. In fact, I just received my custom designed bullet mold from Mountain Molds yesterday so I will be casting bullets on New Years day.

600 Overkill- Cast them from pure Linotype. Some place here I have a 6X6 inch piece of Aluminum block made from 7075 that I shot with one of those bullets. It blew a 4 inch wide, 3 inch deep hole in it. Amazingly cool!-Rob

I will be the first to take my hat off to RGB for the outstanding work he has accomplished with these two behemoths...
Definitely two prime examples of recoil being your only limiting factor in the load work department. You have done the shooting/hunting community a great service, even if most of your creations do not see service in pursuit of dangerous game.

I feel a little bit of the same pride with my two 505 Gibbs-based wildcats. There is just something indescribable about holding a loaded round in your hand and thinking "...nobody else in the world has ever done one of these...".

Congratulations Sir!!

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

Rich- Well said and thanks! Going where no one else has gone gives one a real sense of accomplishment. I actually do like your .577 belted mag design. Belted straight wall cases last forever and if you can hit 2400fps with a 750 gr bullet well thats as good as it gets in my book. Better concept then the much despised NYATIor TREX anyday.
I and others have actually shot quite a bit of game with the .600Ok its phenomenal. Lets see how long it takes for someone else to claim credit for your idea though.
There are about 30 .600Ok,s out there based on the registry and a few have been to Africa, now that its registered with the ATF we should see more outside the USA hunting results.
BTW no one has yet done a 550 on the OK1 case. If you want even more power you are free to do so. That should hit really crazy power levels. Kinda like a 450 Ackley improved on steroids.-Rob

Rob
john did a 550/600, iirc

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
600 Overkill- Cast them from pure Linotype. Some place here I have a 6X6 inch piece of Aluminum block made from 7075 that I shot with one of those bullets. It blew a 4 inch wide, 3 inch deep hole in it. Amazingly cool!-Rob

I do have some linotype left. I think I will give it a try. This new mold is a 700gr 30% meplat design w/ a long pointed nose to feed well & plink with in the bolt gun. I like the 90% 800 grn for the single shot for massive impact. I think I will make one thats 900grns with some variant of a semi wadcutter design next. Made from linotype or heat treated alloy, it will be a great solid penetrator at 2000 or so fps.

quote:

30 .600Ok,s out there based on the registry

I've got the rifle...

How does one get registered?

TH5000 your in. Have fun and give us some reports. Is yours a AHR gun?
Jeffe- I didn't know that! It does seem like a good idea though. What did he get 3000fps?
600 Overkill- I shoot my Linotype bullets just as they drop from the mold. If its .621 its perfect. Linotype usually won't lead your bore at 2000fps so you can use the std 165gr 7828 load. I hand lube the bullets with SPG lube and they work just fine. -Rob

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
600 Overkill- I shoot my Linotype bullets just as they drop from the mold. If its .621 its perfect. Linotype usually won't lead your bore at 2000fps so you can use the std 165gr 7828 load. I hand lube the bullets with SPG lube and they work just fine. -Rob

Rob,
I too hand lube w/ SPG. I cut mine out with a .625 hollow punch. This light 700grn I think I will make a plinker load of around 60-70grs 4198 or 5744 w/ fiber filler. Then I'll try H4350 or 7828 w/ an 800-900 grn. I have some Beartoothe 1040's I might try out as well. They're a semi-wadcutter design and quite hard. I might drop them back to around 1900-2000 fps.

quote:

Is yours a AHR gun?

Yup...

I bought it from SAFARIKID and sent it back to AHR to have a brake & quarter rib installed...

Going to do a lot of shooting after new years...

Loading shells tonight actually...

I've worked up to 164 grains of H4350 using ABW bullets...

Once the ABWs are shot up I'm switching to Woodleighs and would like to try some of the "top loads" we talked about!!!

Matt V.

quote:

Originally posted by trophyhunter5000:

quote:

Is yours a AHR gun?

Yup...

I bought it from SAFARIKID and sent it back to AHR to have a brake & quarter rib installed...

Going to do a lot of shooting after new years...

Loading shells tonight actually...

I've worked up to 164 grains of H4350 using ABW bullets...

Once the ABWs are shot up I'm switching to Woodleighs and would like to try some of the "top loads" we talked about!!!

Matt V.

Matt,
What are ABW bullets? Any pics of them?

Jeffe, Rob - I took the 550-600 to about 2800 (quick load) and quit. It sure can go faster but I was only checking out fit and function on the switch barrel.
I now have barrels based on the 600 OK in
375 (burned throat in just a few rounds)
416 Not practical
458 not practical
474 (this is functional on the 600 case)
510 I like this one
550 another good caliber
and of course 620.

I've fired all but the rifle is in the white and I still need to get it finished up.
It's on a GMA action.

Frit454- Wow that sure covers the field. Yup that .375 must of been a plasma torch. I didn'tknow you did a 550. I have a barrel and may just make one myself. I can easily see 3000fps out of that combo.-Rob

quote:

What are ABW bullets? Any pics of them?

Alaska Bullet Works..

900 grain bonded softs...

I'll post a pic tomorrow...

Pretty much look like Woodleigh softs except with less exposed lead and a tad bit longer...

Rob,
Thanks for the review of the facts, lest we forget.
I added "sumbuddy who know?" to my forum etiquette thanks to Overkill from Sweden.

I get vicarious thrills from all the developments here, and surely the influence has corrupted me into resurrecting the .395 bullet from the 1880's. Gerard Schultz has called this "The Thinking Man's Caliber." Use of wildcats in this caliber will assure that the rifleman retains his thinking ability and eyesight into old age.
Thanks to Gerard, prof242, and Macifej for help along the way.

And thanks again to Rob, Rich, Jeffe, John, Dave, Chris, Neal, Ed, and yes, even boomstick for the stimulating ideas (occasionally).

Soon I will hold the first 500 Mbogo rifle in my hands. That is plenty of kicks for me. 10" TWIST.

and lets not forget Dave and Neal

Yes, the pioneering spirit of Neal Shirley who has ressurected the 28-guage as the .550-caliber rifle innovation.

And Dave Estergaard who maximized the .475/416 Rigby case as the 470 Mbogo and paved the way to a homage to Dave Estergaard: 500 Mbogo

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
.... Going where no one else has gone gives one a real sense of accomplishment. I actually do like your .577 belted mag design. Belted straight wall cases last forever and if you can hit 2400fps with a 750 gr bullet well thats as good as it gets in my book. Better concept then the much despised NYATIor TREX anyday.
Lets see how long it takes for someone else to claim credit for your idea though.
Rob.

Rich, Boomie, Hubel....

I know how sensitive all 'catters (not just you three) are to giving credit where credit is due. I haven't read all of the 577 BME threads in detail, so I am not actually positive where credit should go on this one. I thought it was Boomie's idea, followed by Hubel brass manufacture and first rifle to go bang, and Rich is building the second one and will do load testing, etc.

So we are all clear, can one of you guys spell it out for us here?

Cheers,
Canuck

quote:

Originally posted by trophyhunter5000:

quote:

What are ABW bullets? Any pics of them?

Alaska Bullet Works..

900 grain bonded softs...

I'll post a pic tomorrow...
Pretty much look like Woodleigh softs except with less exposed lead and a tad bit longer...

You learn something every day. Cool, I'd like to see them. A bonded bullet with a more-tapered design & less exposed lead will help. The Woodleighs can get beat up a little in the mag of the 600's and don't feed as smooth then. our good friend Bitteroot is sending me some of his mono 800gr X-styles to try on a pig this month so we'll see how they do. They look to feed and expand perfectly.

Joe

Rob, I think you can get 3000 or 3100 out of the 550-600. At that speed the rifle better be braked, have some heft and a good stock but this you know.

The 375 verson is nuts. The throat was worse than my 30-378 after 500 rounds and this after 10 shots. Not really practical but what the hell.

The 600 you designed is IMHO simply the best hardest hitting stopper ever. It can be loaded down to pussycat level or hot rodded to be all anyone could want to hold on to. I feel privelaged to have been able to make the first cases for this round. I still have a few hundred that have never been fired. They're great to use for duplicating the 600 NE and still get 7-10 reloads. A dozen or more deer have fallen to just such a load. Bravo

quote:

Originally posted by Canuck:

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
.... Going where no one else has gone gives one a real sense of accomplishment. I actually do like your .577 belted mag design. Belted straight wall cases last forever and if you can hit 2400fps with a 750 gr bullet well thats as good as it gets in my book. Better concept then the much despised NYATIor TREX anyday.
Lets see how long it takes for someone else to claim credit for your idea though.
Rob.

Rich, Boomie, Hubel....

I know how sensitive all 'catters (not just you three) are to giving credit where credit is due. I haven't read all of the 577 BME threads in detail, so I am not actually positive where credit should go on this one. I thought it was Boomie's idea, followed by Hubel brass manufacture and first rifle to go bang, and Rich is building the second one and will do load testing, etc.

So we are all clear, can one of you guys spell it out for us here?

Cheers,
Canuck

Well it is kinda funny I thought of it twice but forgot the first time but the second time got the ball rolling...Most of my ideas get ignored but a few are interesting imho.

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/...=604104276#604104276

It would not have been possible to make this idea happen without Ed and Rich period.

Your description is fairly accurate but let me fill in some gaps...

This project is realy another AR creation. I simply learned so much here with you guys putting up with me I owe most of the creit to you guys. Thank you.

The second time happened when I was talking to Rich over the phone about my 500 MAX (belted rum with a 510, 505 or .500 bullet) I was lamenting and getting input on the project about maxing out the case and minimum taper ect and was learning the diff between actual nominal size of brass and spec dimensions. We were going over some case actual dimensions and one he mentioned was the gibbs being .634" vs spec .640" and having worked on the max project and talking with Bent on the 425 Fossdal I subtracted the amount needed for the belt, taper and brass a few times in my head and thought "hey"... than to be sure I was not crazier than I thought I ran the numbers on paper... I reeeely liked the idea and called Ed who has so graciously helped me in the 500 MAX project and talked to Rich again and things took off. I contacted a few more AR pals and nobody seemed to dislike it and if anything it was DAMN lets git r done...

Ed's experience in brass and knowledge about what will work was key. Rich and his love of wildcatting to the point of...well you know how much he loves shooting and wildcatting and his kindness of helping the project get off the ground was key.

Thanks again for sharing the knowledge and all the people who have cheerlead and want to build one. the next year will be interesting.

quote:

Originally posted by 600 Overkill:

quote:

Originally posted by trophyhunter5000:

quote:

What are ABW bullets? Any pics of them?

Alaska Bullet Works..

900 grain bonded softs...

I'll post a pic tomorrow...
Pretty much look like Woodleigh softs except with less exposed lead and a tad bit longer...

You learn something every day. Cool, I'd like to see them. A bonded bullet with a more-tapered design & less exposed lead will help. The Woodleighs can get beat up a little in the mag of the 600's and don't feed as smooth then. our good friend Bitteroot is sending me some of his mono 800gr X-styles to try on a pig this month so we'll see how they do. They look to feed and expand perfectly.

Joe

Joe,

Sorry it took me so long to post this....

Anyway...

The ABW bullet is on the left and the woodleigh is on the right...

Sorry the pic is crappy, I still haven't got the hang of posting them yet...

Thanks Trophyhunter500. I like the less-lead up front. Where do you get your and how much are they? I need to get more anyway as I'm out of the Woodleighs currently. Good time to give them a try.

I bought these from AHR awhile ago...

Can't remember how much $$$, but not much more expensive than Woodleighs...

I've not had feeding problems with the ABW, though the tips still get battered a little...

Performance wise I have not compared the two...

My only complaint with the ABW is that the cannelure is placed higher on the shank than the Woodleighs...

This does take up a "little" extra powder room...

Matt V.

Thanks Matt. I'll get ahold of Wayne and see if he still has any. I'm testing some of his X-type bullets right now. They are a nice looking bullet of about 800grns.

quote:

Originally posted by trophyhunter5000:

quote:

Originally posted by 600 Overkill:

quote:

Originally posted by trophyhunter5000:

quote:

What are ABW bullets? Any pics of them?

Alaska Bullet Works..

900 grain bonded softs...

I'll post a pic tomorrow...
Pretty much look like Woodleigh softs except with less exposed lead and a tad bit longer...

You learn something every day. Cool, I'd like to see them. A bonded bullet with a more-tapered design & less exposed lead will help. The Woodleighs can get beat up a little in the mag of the 600's and don't feed as smooth then. our good friend Bitteroot is sending me some of his mono 800gr X-styles to try on a pig this month so we'll see how they do. They look to feed and expand perfectly.

Joe

Joe,

Sorry it took me so long to post this....

Anyway...

The ABW bullet is on the left and the woodleigh is on the right...

Sorry the pic is crappy, I still haven't got the hang of posting them yet...

Matt----I just ordered 100 of these from Ed & Wayne @ AHR to try out. Thanks for the heads-up. I think I might take them up another 100 fps. Have you killed anything with these? I'd be interested in a field report. I know how the Woodleighs do.
Everyone should be as pleasurable to deal with as Wayne & Ed @ AHR.

Joe

Got my 900gr Kodiak SP's from AHR. Now it's off to the loading bench. I think I'll try these a little hotter as Ed says thay have a much thick & tougher jacket. Think these will run out around 2150-2250 fps. over a stiff charge of H-4350.
Left-to-right is the Kodiak bullet, AHR's Mono expander spire point, Fired case, & a loaded Woodleigh 900grn.

quote:

Originally posted by 600 Overkill:
Got my 900gr Kodiak SP's from AHR. Now it's off to the loading bench. I think I'll try these a little hotter as Ed says thay have a much thick & tougher jacket. Think these will run out around 2150-2250 fps. over a stiff charge of H-4350.
Left-to-right is the Kodiak bullet, AHR's Mono expander spire point, Fired case, & a loaded Woodleigh 900grn.

Hey Overkill,

Any more photos of loaded rounds? What's the weight on that AHR pointed bullet?
Thanks,
Paul

Paul
The AHR bullet weighs a little over 800grs and looks to be the best for penetration, weight retension & moderate expansion and should feed out of a bolt gun beautifully. Here are a couple more loaded 600 pics w/ the Woodleighs:

Joe...

Wayne and Ed are first class...

I haven't killed anything with my 600 yet...

Trying to book a buff hunt for 09....

Just got back from the range and shot some nice groups with the Kodiaks though...

I'd like to do some bullet testing to see how much tougher they really are than the Woodleighs....

Let me know what velocities you get with the Kodiaks...

I also use H4350 and I think we have the same bbl lengths (20")...

Matt.

PS....

The kodiaks do take up a little extra poweder space due to the placement of the cannelure...

quote:

Originally posted by trophyhunter5000:
Joe...

Wayne and Ed are first class...

I haven't killed anything with my 600 yet...

Trying to book a buff hunt for 09....

Just got back from the range and shot some nice groups with the Kodiaks though...

I'd like to do some bullet testing to see how much tougher they really are than the Woodleighs....

Let me know what velocities you get with the Kodiaks...

I also use H4350 and I think we have the same bbl lengths (20")...

Matt.

Matt,
I'm going to try to get the Kodiaks up to around 2200+- w/ H-4350. Like Trophyhunter say, the cannelure is a little deeper so we'll see. Yes, I too have a 20" barrel. I think I can get 160grs. in the case but I'm not sure how much more. If I can get 160grs. into the case I should be able to get to 2150. I'm thinking it will take around 165grs to get to 2200+ but again, I'm not sure it will fit. You probably could get it with IMR-4350 but I want to stay with H-4350. I too want to do some bullet testing when the weather gets better so lets keep in touch whoever does it first. Ed says they designed the Kodiaks much tougher to address the softness of the Woodleighs at these speeds. I'm going for a huge Russian boar later this week with the Woodleighs & maybe the AHR mono bullets. I'll post some pics if I score.
Bitteroot says they are loading their 800gr Expander to 2100 fps with 133grns IMR-4320. That's what I'll load as well with that bullet.