Looking at them and I like what I see...so far..any advice? Thanks

the carbon fiber 300 winmags?
there's a tiny barrel in there, stressed and CF...

i doubt they would make a big bore

I have seen a couple, nothing remarkable about the actions they barrel (last I heard it was your choice), nothing seems to be smoothed, honed, etc. Seems the ticket with these are the barrells. I am with Jeffe in that I haven't seen one over 30 cal. I thought one in .22-250 might be interesting, but never wanted to part with that much cash when I can build one with a Lilja barrel for so much less.

John

I think that you guys are referring to Christensen Arms http://www.christensenarms.com/ not Christian Arms, but I've never heard of Christian Arms.


Andy

OOPS,my mistake on the spelling!(guess I failed the smarter than 5th grader test-again!) I am looking at one in .375,would make a great bear rifle(like I need another!)..or Elk as I feel the 375 is flat shooting enough for what I need!...

My friend had a 416 Rigby made by them. We had to send it back two twice as the bolt would pull completely out of the action when trying to cycle the bolt. Another issue were the mounts. Finally got it fixed. I was not impressed with their work nor customer service.

I thought Christians were supposed to beat their swords into ploughshares.

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
I thought Christians were supposed to beat their swords into ploughshares.

nope...

Luke 22:36

I have shot a couple. Shooting offhand with the light barrel is very difficult for me. I certainly wouldn't pay the price.
Butch

Ditto what Butch said, I shot them and while the quality was better than Aktoklat's friend's gun, the balance was all wrong for me. Same with the other brand (Remington? I can't recall).

The only carbon fiber barrel I like is the Acculite on my 10-22.

Ive seen CA carbon wrapped .358win700Ti
talking with them in REno, I asked about what the wrap does, If I have light barrel rifle that already shot 1/4 inch-3shots?, they said, It would not necessarily make more accurate in that group,but would most likely reduce the chance of increasing group size in larger shot strings(10),than without a carbon wrap.

I have a factory Cris arms gun it's a winny 70 SS in 300 rum. I have a Edge Micky on order for it, Its nice and light now and not bad in the recoil dep.

I will say that it takes for ever for the barrel to cool down.
If I was going to build one ( and yes I will)
Id go with these guys hands down. Advanced Barrel systems.

http://home.alltel.net/mdegerness/

About the carbon fiber barrels: steel tube inside of a graphite thread wrap.

I have a gunsmith friend who says they do shoot better for a longer string, regarding handling of heat.

Heat expands the bore, and groups get bigger with a steel barrel: positive coefficient of thermal expansion.

The graphite has a negative coefficient of thermal expansion, I am told, so it shrinks as it gets hotter.

Well, I guess an ice cube shrinks as it gets hotter and turns into water, so over a specific temperature interval, water has a negative coefficient of expansion.

So maybe the graphite wrap is a heat sink that drains heat away from the steel and keeps it cooler while tightening up around the steel liner as the graphite heats up.

Or is the graphite an insulator that will make the skinny little barrel insert heat up faster inside and loose heat slowly to the outer surface?

Barrel liner expansion, carbon wrap shrinkage.

Bigger outer surface area of barrel (for light weight large diameter barrel) to radiate and convect away the heat?

Something must be working there, but that would be the only value I see, if it is so: Less loss of accuracy with barrel heating.

Or is this all sales hype?

No need for the carbon wrapped barrels on a big bore sporter, thats for sure. Nixes the balance and weight desirable on a big bore. No more accurate for a short volley.

Should Overkill build his beltfed 600OK, might be worth a consideration ... but only if this better heat handling thing is true.

Repeat after me:
Heat expansion of a tube of steel is the same as if it were a solid rod, regarding exterior diameter and length, so the hole in the middle of a rifle barrel will get bigger as the temperature goes up. I learned that here at ar.com.

Carbon has higher heat rejection thereby repositing more thermal stress into the liner and causing a tangential thermal inversion spike of an intransigent nature. This isn't really a problem necessarily as the inherant design of the device precludes higher levels of utilitarian function for it's intended purpose due to it's negative effectual shift of polar moment of inertia during the initial recoil phase. The ideal solution would likely involve implementation of a low mass high density liquid metal heat sink along the axis of the suspect tube in order to thermally stabilize and correct for it's relatively low mass. You Dig Man!!!!

Now Bear Head, engage your brain before your fingertips this time. Does the graphite wrap tighten up and stiffen with heat and/or does it conduct heat away from the liner steel, or is this BS? I do not know.

Uh?............RIP! My brain was/is fully engaged. My point (of comedy which you missed)was - It's only purpose is in weight savings! If it's allowed to impose undue and unpredictable stress on the net bore dimensions it would be less accurate and more dangerous right!!! Say yes RIP! It's a gimmick boss just like electrically primed super fast lock time bolt guns or excelerator ammo back in the 70's.

Carbon does have higher heat rejection, stiffness, and lower weight, That's great for F1 rotors but pretty useless for barrels. (unless you're making a 6 foot hunting barrel)

O.K., I was just making sure. The liquid cooled rifle barrel threw off my concentration on the foregoing prose.

I think you are right. Just a weight saving gimmick and I got the sales pitch hype about shooting better for a longer string of shots.

Uh...Huh! Gotcha thinking about a combination mercury recoil reducer/cooling system which you could patent on Monday and retire to Wildcat Heaven!!!

Their rifles are not that light, unless you pay the extra for the carbon fiber stock, which adds another grand to the already over priced base rifle. Do you really need this technology in a hunting rifle? How many shots are going to be fired at a game animal in one string...two or three max? The little bit of heat in the barrel from firing 2 or 3 shots quickly will not be the cause of your missing a game animal. My MGA 375 H&H is lighter than even their carbon fiber stocked top of the line rifle and it shoots 3 shots into 1" no problem....and it looks a hell of a lot better than their fugly rifle. I guess if you want some bragging rights that you have the newest highest tech rifle I guess this would be it. I think it would wear off pretty quickly though. They are that ugly.

Their is more than one type of carbon wraped barrel I won't try to explain the Tec. difference, belown is a explination by Mike. IMHO Advanced Barrel Systems Inc. builds a better barrel than Christensen Arms.

"If I have light barrel rifle that already shot 1/4 inch-3shots" I wouldn't replace this barrel with any carbon wraped barrel. But If I was going to build a hunting rifle with a long barrel and a high volume case, that required a 26" + barrel carbon is the way to go. A 28" #5 barrel is 30cal. will weigh 5# up. ABS can build the equilvlent barrel that will run about 2#. It will also handle the heat better and you will et twice the barel life. You can also have the barrel rebored when it does wear out.

The essay below is off the web page of ABS
DR B

First I apologize for the essay that follows; however, the technical background of these barrels can’t be addressed briefly. Most carbon barrels on the market use fiber and resin that do insulate heat. The concentration of heat at the thin wall liner does accelerate wear and will fry in less time than a conventional barrel.
First some points regarding properties of different kinds of carbon fiber.
There are 2 major categories of carbon fiber.
The polymerization of acrylonitrile yields PAN type fiber. This type is common to fishing poles, golf club shafts and most carbon fiber rifle barrels.
Characteristics are medium stiffness and low coefficiency of thermal conduction. This fiber also has a fairly neutral coefficient of thermal expansion.
The polymerization of coal tar pitch or mesophase coal tar pitch yields Pitch type fiber. In its finer grades it is often referred to as graphitic carbon fiber. This fiber is more commonly used in aerospace applications and is 3-30 times more costly than PAN fiber. Characteristics include super high stiffness (modulus) and extraordinary coefficient of thermal conduction. On the downside, pitch fiber has a negative coefficient of thermal expansion. (Heat it and it shrinks!)
Bear in mind that carbon fiber conducts heat in the same manner that fiber optic cable conducts light. It tends to follow the fibers and unless a radical approach is used, it will not cross from fiber to fiber.
416R stainless gun barrels conduct heat at about 21 watts per meter-Kelvin (w/ms*K). PAN fiber of different grades conducts heat at 14-22 w/ms*K. Pitch based fibers conduct heat at 140 – 700 w/ms*K. Pitch fiber will carry a ton of heat at super high speeds.
Traditionally carbon barrels were made to be light. No more, no less. The buzzwords of “heat dissipation†could be construed as marketing. The fiber and resin mixtures in use were garden-variety PAN fibers and low temp boat repair type resins. None of these work very well. Most shooters want more for their money than lightweight mediocrity. http://www.galleryofguns.com/Shootingtimes/Articles/Dis...Articles.asp?ID=1114

I am a prairie dog hunter that has burned many barrels in a week on good towns. When I entered the aerospace composites field I began the research and engineering to develop the high heat management fiber application in small arms.
What I have discovered is a way to use the 700 w/ms*K high heat transport graphitic pitch fiber to conduct heat through the wall of the carbon fiber barrel. I use a special filament winding technique and a duplex fiber content to maximize the heat transfer and eliminate the incredible shrinking carbon problem that leads to wandering zero points and 2+†groups. The resin is tough, heat resistant and has a vibration-dampening component.
This link has some charts with the 3rd party thermal testing data. More technical information is available on the US patent office web site under patent # 6,889,464.
Here’s a comment from the shooter testing the full auto M4 –
“This is going to be the neatest thing since the thong bikini.
Harder than woodpecker lips and it sheds heat at an amazing rate.
After 8 minutes you can hold the barrel easily. 5 minutes after several strings of full auto it was below the boiling point for spit!!â€

Dr B,
Thanks for that. Good reading. According to that, I now know the difference between the "Pitch type fiber" aerospace-quality stuff (used by ABS) versus the "PAN type fiber" fishing-pole-quality stuff used by CA/Browning.

So the PAN does have a negative coefficient of thermal expansion and a poor/low coefficient of thermal conduction.

Marketing hype and weight savings at the cost of shorter barrel life, greater expense, and no better or worse accuracy, and FUNNY-UGLY.

The ABS system is available in .338 Lapu Mag., .408 Chey-Tac, and 50BMG for those desiring fugly rifles, or beltfed heat dissipation, which is supposed to be real with the Pitch-type fibers that conduct heat like fiberoptics conduct light ... not from one fiber to another in the wrap.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
....the Pitch-type fibers that conduct heat like fiberoptics conduct light ... not from one fiber to another in the wrap.

Think of it this way, if your toothbrush fibres ran parallel with the brush head,it wouldnt clean too well. Like wise, if the carbon fibres on the barrel run parrallel to the bore theres minimal efficiency in radiating heat away,cause heat is not well passed through one fibre wall to the other, like two water pipes running parrallel dont pass water to each other very well.
But if the fibres run out on a radial from the bore,you have many waterpipes/optic fibres/carbon fibres doing their thing,ie; more efficiently/intelligently (radially)arranged....well thats the way I understand it.
There, I hope that makes things easy

But hell if your into High grade fishing poles,the parralel to bore carbonfibres are ToPs!!! Im running Daiwa Saltiga Rods,that are super light,super senstive and mind blowingly strong! You can run(read-snap!) 60lb+ spectra braidline on a rod that by all appearances should only be using 15-20lb line. Well worth the $500+ a pole.for that money their fitted with the finest siliconeTitanium guides and carbon reelseats.

The radial bristle radiator arrangement, of course.
I wonder how they get that accomplished and how conducive it is to barrel stiffness?

Forget about frying the barrel...I think my brain is fried after reading all of this.

What was that WW1 era US machine gun that had the liquid cooled barrel? I was told by someone? that the thing used to steam when it got too hot and give away the operators position! Now that's whacky! "Hey Klaus! Look for da schteemin' Yank machinen gun ya?!?"