Edited

boom stick!

My sincerest apology! I had a question about the Tatanka compared to the GSC but see that it has already been talked about. It was not my intent to make your post seem a bit nonsensical, sorry

A great thing about the .395s is that they are all good!

Pastor rip...

John seems to have been converted and is speaking in 395 tongues...

No snake handlers please

Are there still 395 pinky rings in the works?

How delightful to have such a distinguished name...

Here is the chronologic development order of the "Big Five" .395 Family cartridge concepts:
Left to right:
1) .398 Lapua Mag. with homemade ".395/395-grain" bullet
2) .395 GSC with long-loaded .395/340-grain GSC SP
3) .395 Tatanka (.40-07) with SP
4) .395 Ruger Max with .395/340-grain GSC HV
5) 400 Nitro Express 3" with .395/340-grain GSC FN:



The same ".395 Big Five" arrayed by order of foot-pounds at the muzzle:
1. 400NE3"
2. .395 Ruger Max
3. .395 GSC
4. .398 Lapua Mag (short-seated SP works through the magazine)
5. .395 Tatanka:



And the bullets:
1. 93-grain .395-caliber lead round ball from Hornady.
2. 200-grain B-Max Bullet (resized Hornady XTP .400 bullet, more to come including heavier Hawk bullets resized by prof242)
3. GSC FN .395/340-gr
4. GSC HV .395/340-gr
5. GSC SP .395/340-gr
6. Montana Precision Swaging .395/400-gr soft lead:



I had to pull a dummy to get the last 3 GSC's for the photo.

The faithful shall pray for Gerard, that the crocodiles do not get above Gerard's Kevlar chest waders, and that the bullets may safely traverse the black hole to this side of the pond. Amen.

For the .395 caliber 400 Nitro Express 3" One-And-Only
with 340-grain GSC FN bullet,
AccuLoad3 predicts:
2385 fps
4285 ft-lbs
That's how I cooked it.

This is at 50,000 psi in a modern falling block like the Ruger No.1 with 26.5" barrel.

The reduced load for double rifles: We'll cross that bridge when we get there.

9.3x74R maximum average pressure, according to CIP, is allowed to be 49,700 PSI.

Since 400NE3"OAO ammo will initially be made from 9.3x74R, 50Kpsi seems like a prudent pressure allowance. We could go higher.

How does that rate on efficiency???

It would seem that 400 @ 2150 is obtainable

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
How does that rate on efficiency???
It would seem that 400 @ 2150 is obtainable

Assuming a .395-cal/400-grain FMJ or RNSP of about the same length as the 340-grain GSC FN monometal copper and run the numbers again, paying attention to efficiency: will do.

HA!

Rip...you could change your sig line to read "395...killing stuff since 1880"
This is good for grease grooves, knurling and canalures


http://www.corbins.com/ppatch.htm#hct-2
If you knurl the swaged 400 grainers it would be good to add grease to the bullet and reduce friction. or do grease grooves.

Hmmm. Seems I've been out of touch. Guess that's what I get for being on a collapsing aluminum bleacher and hitting my head. (True) Could really have used you last Friday, RIP.
My Ruger #1 is committed to this project (oh aching bank account along with aching head). I'm thinking of a 25" or 25.5" barrel just to be different. Now have to search for a good, repeat good, #1 gunsmith.
Will be sending you some bullets this week to make up dummy cartridges. Yeah, I know, you don't have the dies yet. Just cobble something together.
Max

Ouch p242...Dont do that...we need you here. Hope you are better

Thanks for the concern, BS. Yep, am feeling better. Was out cold at first. Bled all over the place, I hear. Five others hurt, but nothing compared to me. I ache all over. Docs kept me in the hospital since I don't have anyone at home to help take care of me (anyone know a female who likes hunting?).
Now...back to shooting.
There are a few other bullets I'm going to order and try sizing. I think there even is a 400grain jacketed. Might not be a premium, but it will have sectional density...? I like the look of the .400 NE. I might have to have the checkering pattern redone to something a little more classical on my Ruger #1 after rebarreling to the straight case. It seems fitting, and there is sufficient power to take anything on this continent.

prof242,
Sorry to hear about the mishap. Hope you are good as new soon. Obviously you are as brilliant as ever, already planning to build another .395.

Take comfort in the .395. It will serve us into senility in the form of the 400 Righteous Nitro Express 3" (heh, heh, truly righteous, this one is). An efficient killer we can shoot even with sore heads.

AccuLoad3 prediction for a 400-grain B-Max bullet is inspiring:

With a slightly compressed charge of RL-15 and a 26.5" barrel (in DR or single shot this is like a 22.5" barrel on a bolt action for overall rifle length):

RL-15 charge = 65.5 grains
400-grain B-Max Bullet
MV = 2155 fps
KE = 4135 ft-lbs
Pressure = 44,500 PSI

Incredible, no filler, slightly compressed load locking the bullet in place with a crimp, low recoil, and it beats the 4 Kilo-foot-pound threshold and gets over 2150 fps with a 400-grain cup and core bullet.

How neat and tidy! Varget Extreme might even be better.

Surely the 12" twist will work for these lead-cored heavies. Perfect choice, IMHO, perfect for the 340-grain copper monometals too. It has all come together quite nicely.

SD of .395 bullets:

400-gr >>> .366
340-gr >>> .311
300-gr >>> .274
230-gr >>> .211
200-gr >>> .183
93-gr ball >>> .085

As soon as Dave Manson gets that .395 Ruger Max reamer delivered I will give him an order for a 400 Righteous Nitro Express 3" reamer.
Supposed to ship it this Wednesday if Dara was right, bless her heart.

And to boomie,
The thermodynamic efficiency of the RL-15 load with 400-grainer is 33.3% in the 400 Righteous Nitro Express 3". No sweat the small stuff, eh? The 340-grainers can get up to 37.8% efficiency, almost as good as the .395 Ruger Max and .395 GSC.
Thanks for reminding me to order that canneluring and knurling tool. I have been meaning to do that for years.

I have a good excuse to get a bullet casting mold too.

The canneluring tool should work great on B-Max bullets too.

The high S.D. low recoil and low preasure big bore D.G. classic cart make the 400 nitro 3" compelling. You could think of it as a 405 win magnum.

Todays powders have brought this back from the dead.

rip...you wouldnt just use the 9,3x74 reamer and a 395 neck throater?

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
The high S.D. low recoil and low preasure big bore D.G. classic cart make the 400 nitro 3" compelling. You could think of it as a 405 win magnum.

Todays powders have brought this back from the dead.

rip...you wouldnt just use the 9,3x74 reamer and a 395 neck throater?

boomstick,
Righteous your comments are!
Compare the 400NFPB3" (we want it exactly as Donnelly has shown it) to the 9.3x74R.
The taper per inch of the 400 is 0.015" from base to case mouth.
The taper per inch of the 9.3 case is 0.026" from base to shoulder.

The 400NFBP3" is a blown-out and improved 9.3x74R.

The base of the 400NFBP3" is 0.002" bigger than the 9.3x74R.

Gotta make a new reamer. Or get an old 400NFBP3" reamer.

Of course the new reamer will allow throating for a 3.750" COL and longer and heavier bullets.

The heavier-than-230-grain bullets and the modern Nitro loading does make this the new-old cartridge that never existed before ballistically.

It is indeed righteous!

All looks good boys and sounds very exciting except the part where you load that paper thin brass too hot and turn it into euroscrap after one load. Are there no other parent case candidates from this century?

Hmmm...
9.3x74R is CIP spec-ed to 49,700 psi/3400bar.

We are not talking about using the coiled brass wire and paper cases from the dawn of breechloading.

I'll grant you that the .395 bullets were fired from such cases, a long time ago.

Of course a custom run of fortified brass with a headstamp reading "Righteous" may have to be arranged with Marc Jamison some day.

There are no flies on this baby.

Hey rip...put 3 or 4 395 balls on top of some powder for a "0000" buckshot affect...good for varnmits up close

00 shot is .330"
000 is .360"
this would be 0000 plus .005"

a regular 2 3/4" 12 guage holds 8 of them in 000 so go figure...

I dont know how dangerous that would be dont try this at home...

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Hey rip...put 3 or 4 395 balls on top of some powder for a "0000" buckshot affect...good for varnmits up close

I have already shoved 2 of the .395 round balls into the neck of the .395 Tatanka and fireformed some cases. Satisfying double splat at 100 yards, but they shot into the berm above the target as I am sighted now. Will get some two-shot group sizes eventually when I get the sights adjusted.

How about the dimensions of a .410 shotgun case? I wonder if we could not just do some shotshell loads in 400NE3" and make it a bird gun as well as a big game rifle?

prof242,
How is your noggin mending?

Feeling muuuuuch better now. Thanks for asking. This may sound sacriligeous, Pastor RIP (does that sound sexual?), but my enthusiasm for the .400NE3" is overwhelming. I still want the .395 Ruger Max, but this straight-cased angel has me quite enamored.

In a stalking weight rifle of 7.5 lbs this is the recoil for 400 @ 2150 with the above charge...

Recoil Energy of 52 foot pounds, and Recoil Velocity of 21 fps.

In a 10 lb rifle for all day shooting;

Recoil Energy of 39 foot pounds, and Recoil Velocity of 16 fps.

and the #'s are about the same for the 340's

So if you can shoot a 338 win mag you can shoot this, the recoil is almost the same. it is between the 338 and the 375 h+h recoil #'s

Bear tooth bullets recoil calculator

Hey rip...that could be your next test...compare penetration of a 400 grain 395 and 300 grain 375 and see which is a better killer at the same level of recoil. That is a good excuse to go to Africa or shoot some charging water jugs and plywood

bigger and slower vs smaller and faster battle # 988,776,837,464,783,943

I am sure the cave men debated this with their spears long ago

I currently shoot a .375H&H in a lefthand Rem 700 and a .338WSM wildcat in a 6.5# Rem 700 short action lefthander. I'm not insensitive to recoil, but I know how to handle it so that I don't have eye cuts. My Ruger #1 will probably weigh in somewhere around 9 to 9.5 lbs I hope.

quote:

Originally posted by prof242:
Feeling muuuuuch better now ... my enthusiasm for the .400NE3" is overwhelming. I still want the .395 Ruger Max, but this straight-cased angel has me quite enamored.

Max,
Sounds like your higher centers are functioning well. You are well.

"You can make brass shells for the .410 shotgun by fire forming .303 British, .444 Marlin, or 9.3x74R rifle cases."

http://www.tbullock.com/bpsg.html

the 400 nitro 3" will be the uber magnum 410 shotgun!

H.F.S. batman!

long range duck hunting and D.G. to P.G.

Glad to have the Doctor's opinion on my mental faculties (although there are others that state I never was well mentally).
Let me know, RIP, what I can do to further this process along on the .400NE3". I've found some larger diameter (.408) 400gr cast bullets with gas checks. I may have to order some to see if there will be any problem in sizing them down for our "stalking" rifles.

Max,
Good work. Eventually we'll have all sorts of projectiles for these .395's.

I spoke with Dave Manson in person today and he said the .395 Ruger Max reamer was on his desk and it was the next thing in line for final touches prior to shipping.

We also discussed the 400 Nitro for Blackpowder 3". I will get a package together this weekend with my two dummies and brass drawings and specs for throat, etc., and have him create a reamer for the "400 Nitro Express 3-Inch Original" which is the link gone missing for over a century.

This deserves a poll thread for serious or silly suggestions on the name.