Finally got the .394 Lee sizer die and used it last night. Bullets had previously been sized in a series of dies, the final one being a .396 sizer. However, they would expand up a bit, so ordered the .394 figuring the bullets would, after a "relaxing" period, settle at .395 diameter. We'll see. At least now, RIP and I will have .395 bullets to hunt with in North America.

Max,
Great work. You get the recipe worked out and I will do the same home cooking until we get some "factory" bullets.

As soon as the .400 Tembo takes off bumping those bullets down to .395 ought to be pretty easy.

Hopefully Gerard is just busy with a big order for a major ammo maker and we will start seeing GSC bullets in factory ammo soon.

He has disappeared lately. Wading through crocodiles in kevlar hip waders? Hope he is well.

.395 Tatanka dies are on order with Redding.

.395 Ruger Max dies are on order with Hornady (thanks Max).

The only .395 bullets I have fired so far are 93-grain/.395-caliber lead round balls from Hornady. They are about the size of Walter's testicles. Nice squirrel and ptarmigan load. Take their heads right off.

I need proper reloading dies to load the real bullets concentrically.

We have not given Gerard up for dead yet.
Max is filling the void meantime.

Thanks again Max.

The perfect .395 Ruger Max chamber reamer is supposed to ship next Wednesday: Dave Manson Precision Reamers.

If Hornady can do a second set of dies for the .395 Ruger Max at the same time as they are doing Max's, it will be nice.

Otherwise I will get in line and wait for them a little longer than Max, but Max will be using the reamer first.

Max has done the pioneering work with Lonnie Hummel of Hornady, getting the .395 Ruger Max reloading dies started.

Lonnie Hummel is indeed an excellent representative of Hornady. Good customer service.

.400 Tembo bullets?

Gerard where are you?

The bullets that have been sized to .394 don't seem to be increasing in size like the previous sized bullets have done. In fact, they seem more like they've been sized to .3935 and staying there. I'm going to let the sized bullets sit another week, and, if no change polish the lee sizer very very slightly so that we get bullets of the appropriate size.

Oh where oh where is Gerard?

Damn those international calls are expensive for me.

So maybe I will be needing both a .394 and a .395, heck get a .396 sizer too?

Nope, just send your bullets to me, or have them shipped to me initially, I'll do the resizing, then send them off to you...unless you are planning 15,000.

Gerard is alive and well. I made telephone voice contact this morning. He may be working so hard at making bullets for a major ammo company that he does not have time to play around on this site.

Max and I will be testing the prototype .395cal/340-grain-HV bullets at various velocities to see how they open up in water at impact velocities from about 1700 to 2700 fps.

Right Gerard? Or what test velocity spread did you want?

Right Max?

quote:

He may be working so hard at making bullets for a major ammo company that he does not have time to play around on this site.

So we should soon be able to buy commercially-loaded ammunition with GSC bullets? That would be nice.

Of course, for those of you who reload it is no big deal.

Hi Charles,
The commercially loaded GSC-bulleted ammo: I don't know anything else except something is keeping Gerard's nose to the grindstone.

Lonnie Hummel is the good man to talk to about .395 Ruger Max dies from Hornady.

Patrick Ryan is the good man to talk to about .395 Tatanka dies from Redding.

Hey! Two more addies to the .395 Family.

Sounds Great, RIP! I'd sent an email, but your phone call should reap better benefits. As soon as your ready to load jacketed bullets, I'll send some along to you for trial (with my errors).

Max,
Gerard did say that he had noticed an email from you. Any response yet?
Gotta have the reloading dies before trying the jacketed B-Max Bullets.

Hey, Hornady has A-Max, prof242 makes B-Max Bullets.

Seems we need Woodleigh to make this since it is a real old school bullet it seems...

http://www.midwayusa.com/guntecdictionary.exe/showterm?TermID=434

Definition for "400 Nitro Express 3"" : Bullet Diameter .395; Overall Loaded Length 3.55; Can be made from 9.3x74mm Rimmed; Rimmed Straight; Also called .400 Purdey 3"

Thank you boom stick, you have redeemed yourself with this find. You are a scholar and a gentleman.

The .395 bullet is not crazy, it was done as a BP cartridge in Martini-actioned rifles and old BP doubles.

I had long ago searched this forum and found mention of a Martini rifle barrel that slugged .395 in the grooves. Now I understand. This was for the 400 Nitro For Blackpowder (3") or its forebears.

I had never bothered to look in an old COTW 7th Edition, but just now did and there I found it, and not in subsequent editions.

I'll scan the page and post it later.

Lifted from COTW:
************************************************
400 Nitro For
Blackpowder (3")

Historical Notes
This was originally an old blackpowder cartridge popular in the late 1800's. It was chambered in Martini-actioned single shot rifles and various double rifles. It is obsolete and has not been offered by British gunmakers for years. The more modern smokeless loading was used by Purdey ...

400 Nitro For Blackpowder (3") Factory Ballistics
Bullet: 230 grs. lead
Powder: FL (must be close to the 47 grs. cordite listed below)
MV: 2050 fps
ME: 2150 ft-lbs ...
Dimensional Data
Bullet diameter: .395"
Neck diameter: .427"
(No Shoulder--straight tapered case)
Base diameter: .471"
Rim diameter: .522"
Case length: 3.00"
Ctge length: 3.56"
Berdan primer size: .254"
Kynoch primer no.: 34
************************************************

In COTW editions subsequent to this reference, the 400 Nitro For Blackpowder (3") disappears and is replaced by the 400 Purdey (3") Light Express aka 400 Straight 3", starting with the 8th Edition of COTW:

Historical Notes
Numerous 400 straight cases were chambered in British rifles from the dawn of the breechloading era, including cases made of paper and coiled brass, some as short as 2 inches, others as long as 3-1/4. Purdey's utilized a 3-inch case loaded with "light cordite" for their double rifles, around 1905. Kynoch offered a shot cartridge slightly longer than 3 inches, perhaps for use in oval-bored rifles of 40 caliber ... These rifles require .405-inch bullets ... so you'll probably have to cast them or swage down 41 Magnum bullets.

400 Purdey (3") Factory Ballistics
Bullet: 230 grs. lead
Powder: Cordite 47 grs.
MV: 2050 fps
ME: 2150 ft-lbs
Dimensional Data
Bullet diameter: .405"
Neck diameter: .427"
(No shoulder--straight tapered case)
Base diameter: .469"
Rim diameter: .516"
Case length: 3.00"
Ctge length: 3.60"
Berdan primer size: .241"
Kynoch primer no. 34
************************************************

Different bullets by .010" diameter, but same neck diameters of the loaded cartridges, and etc. minor differences in the specs.

Now the .395 Family has nostalgia going for it too.

The .395 bullet ushered in the dawn of the breechloading era in the mid 1800's.
Now it has been reborn as the best all purpose big game rifle ever.

The Alpha and the Omega: .395

I am now on the lookout for any .395 caliber relics I can find, whether Martini-actioned single shot or BP double hammer rifle.
Anything in 400 Nitro For Blackpowder (3") will do.

Just any old "400 Purdey" in .405 caliber will not do!

I seem to need a lot of big bore redemption...

My pennance will be 1,000 hail mausers and plenty of big bore shooting Rabbi Rip.

Anyone want to rebore or rebarrel their 9,3x74 to a 400 Purdey??? that will be a great light weight big bore double and now with Rip and Gerards help it can live again. Just neck up your 9,3x74 brass.

Maybe a Ruger #1 in a 400 Purdey.

Purdey I read made it smokeless thus the 400 Nitro Express and the necked down version the 375/400 N.E.

Rip...so your next double will be a 400 Purdey...I am sure you will do a 395 smokeless with the 9,3x74 brass...

Extended pinky shooting to be had lol!

Wow! Those do say BP on them so might be .395" instead of .405".
Kynoch.
I sure would like to get some calipers on those bullets.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Rip...so your next double will be a 400 Purdey...I am sure you will do a 395 smokeless with the 9,3x74 brass...

Extended pinky shooting to be had lol!

Sounds good.
I forsee a 10.03x74R in a Ruger No.1 for starters.

10x74R to be less precise.

Doin' good ain't got no end.

See if you can wrangle some cylindrical basic cases from hornady to stamp 400 PURDEY

It would be interestng to check accuload to see if you could get the 340 grainers up to 2300 in a Ruger #1 for 4,000 F.P.E. and D.G. hunting or close to it.

It seems that the 395 is cutting edge AND old school...

Well done Rip...You and Gerard are giving life to all those 400 Purdeys out there...I think they all just doubled in price...grab them while they are still cheap...you might want to re heat treat them

Gerard can sell more bullets now.

Gerard could sell them to kynoch. Kynoch already has the 400 that just needs to be necked down 10 thou.

I think I should just build a 400 Nitro For Black Powder 3" and use the .395 GSC bullets in a Ruger No.1.

What a novel thought. No wildcat needed for this .395 bore rifle, just a hot new loading to 4000 fpe as you say.

2050 fps with a .395/230-grain lead bullet must have been pretty racy for the day, in a double rifle built as light as a 12-guage shotgun.

Still, not a 400 Purdey, because those used .405" diameter bullets of the same weight, velocity and cast lead construction.

I have a mission in life: Collect an original 400 Nitro FBP3" double rifle and Martini single shot with .395 grooved barrels.

I am on the prowl.

HALLELUJIA!!! RIP, haven't received a reply from Gerard to my email as yet. B-MAX bullets? OK!

As soon as I get a digital camera (still love my Olympus 35mm SLR), I'll take a pic and post it of my Ruger #1. Frank Hendricks engraved the receiver and satin-nickled it, Alex Harper did the stock work, and Reinhart Fajen provided triple-A fancy claro walnut for the stock. It was presented to me when I graduated from Officers Training School years ago. Its in 7mmRemMag, but a conversion to .400 Nitro with .395 groove diameter would be awesome!

29 thou diff between the 9,3 and the 395 so more like a ream than a rebore

The 400 Purdey rides again.

boom stick,
Why do you persist with this 400 Purdey stuff?

It is not a 400 Purdey that the .395 Family is interested in, those are .405 caliber rifles and are descended from the cartridge of interest here, and evolved as late as 1905.

It is the forerunner 400 Nitro FBP3" that is .395 caliber and deserves resurrection with GSC and B-Max Bullets, using McGowen Precision Barrels: .395 caliber. Get it?

quote:

Originally posted by prof242:
HALLELUJIA!!! RIP, haven't received a reply from Gerard to my email as yet. B-MAX bullets? OK!

As soon as I get a digital camera (still love my Olympus 35mm SLR), I'll take a pic and post it of my Ruger #1. Frank Hendricks engraved the receiver and satin-nickled it, Alex Harper did the stock work, and Reinhart Fajen provided triple-A fancy claro walnut for the stock. It was presented to me when I graduated from Officers Training School years ago. Its in 7mmRemMag, but a conversion to .400 Nitro with .395 groove diameter would be awesome!

AMEN BROTHER!!!

The .395 caliber is becoming a religion!

Yay though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, my .395 comforts me ...

Pick your .395 caliber rod and staff from this offering of the Big Five 395's:
400 Nitro (FBP3")
.395 Ruger Max
.395 GSC
.398 Lapua Mag.
.395 Tatanka/.40-07

I can imagine my 400 Nitro Ruger No.1 with really sissy wood and engraving, rust blued ... That one is fourth on my build list, one down, one in progress, three to go.

Also, Max, when I get geared up to resize my own bullets, could we call them "BB-Max Bullets" then?"

Bridget Bardot bullets? Or am I showing my age? BB-Max Bullets (for Bennett and Berry) it is.
As far as my #1 with "sissy wod and engraving," when its presented as a gift from the people who did it, ya thank them profusely.

It's O.K. to own a sissy gun or two. They work fine for Sunday-Go-To-Meetin' carry.

I like to sit out on the church steps and whittle while the women and children get preached at. Preacher asked me to try not to shoot at squirrels no more than two or three shots per sermon. I can live with that.

.395 Caliber Geneology

6th and 7th Eds. of COTW still had this entry, and no 400 Purdey entry:



Then in the 8th Ed. of COTW the former was gone and this was substituted, using the same quote from the 1920's Purdey catalog, and obviously the same picture of the cartridge for both the .395 version and the later .405 version:



Just to emphasize the caliber of the bullet:

So get busy then! Make up some heavy duty 400 Nitro Brass and get er done! Starline could easily make the new cases. That's right up their alley. Bet you could make them .395's fly 2600 with smokeless. I'll draw up the cart for you RIP in full size Auto-Cad & send it to them. What primer do ya think??! What would you call it?

Geez man don't you get it? I am through with wildcatting. I've done all I need to do of that.
Now it is on to the obsolete: Revive the 400 Nitro FBP3 !!!

The very most rare of wildcats in this world, namely the .395 Tatanka (only one exists) and the .395 Ruger Max (two about to be made) were done to be unique and at the same time the most capable of all-arounders.

Ironically they are based on the bullet diameter of one of the earliest of centerfire rifle cartridges, originally a BP cartridge, then it became a "Nitro For BP" cartridge, then it was obsoleted.

Too funny.

Gonna build me a 400 Nitro For Blackpowder (3").

YOU! Blackpowder slowmotion double clunker??

Yeah right! You can put it in the rack next to that Barret contraption you've been shootin'

You kill me!

Let me know how that works out......

Cant wait to see the 400 nitro (395) ride again...

Good luck RIP

I am eager to see how fast the GSC 340 grainers are gunna fly and the flat nose solids and cast for more classic loads

Donnelly says the 400 Nitro for Black 3" is a "Circa 1880" cartridge, with a .395 caliber bullet. Obviously it was one of the many that went from beginnings with BP loads to light cordite loads later.

400/.395 Nitro for Black powder 3" loading: 1902 ???
400/.405 Purdey of same length and ballistics (Light Express): 1905 ??? (Kynoch says 1920's)

Obviously Purdey had rifles of both .395 and .405 caliber, and there must have been a dozen different names overlapping for both bores on basically the same case, bullet weight, and cordite charge.

The 400 Nitro For Black Powder (3") seems to be closest to the original form: .395 caliber. As rare as this bird must be, I will have to get a Manson reamer made, form some brass from 9.3x74R necked up and go from there.

Like Max said, the Ruger No.1 makes a lot of sense, especially a pretty one. If she is not smart, she had better be pretty, and slim.

Donnelly is consistent with COTW "4th Ed." and on through Ed. 7:



Some "B-Max" or hard cast bullets ought to duplicate the original ballistics handily.

When the GSC bullets are available it will be considerably modernized in a strong Ruger No.1, with 340-grain high velocity loads. Should be a gentleman's DGR for sure.

Might we run it through the ballistics programs, assuming Donnelly is correct on the case capacity? Using the GSC FN 340-grainer (that is 1.340" long with 0.606" of truncated-cone nose beyond the case), COAL 3.606", and barrel length of 26" on the spritely Ruger No.1: should be adequate at CIP pressure for the 9.3x74R (3400 bar or 49,300 psi maxAv.) or beyond, easily in a Ruger No.1..

But this is one of those "straight" cases ...

The ruger brass should be pretty strong stuff. This could make a fine "stalking" rifle in a light weight #1 what weight and sights rip?

With all those bullets you have this will be one versatile rig.

O.K. boom stick, a RIPoff cartridge truly inspired by you, thank you very much:

Since the parent case ("400") and the bullet diameter (.395") are unchanged from the original 400 Nitro for Black Powder (3"), this new one should just be named the 400 Nitro Express (3"). Plain as mud, simple as that.

There has been a 400 Jeffery Nitro Express (3") ( the 450/400 NE 3") but never a plain ol' 400 NE, until now.

The first ever Nitro Express, in 1898, the 450 NE (3-1/4"), and then the 500 NE (3"), etc., got their names by merely updating the old BP cartridge with new loadings, from BP to BPE (or Nitro for Black) to NE.

This is totally logical.

Using the lightweight "B-Max" jacketed or hard cast lead .395 bullets (200 to 300-grains, let's say) in the 400 Nitro for Black Powder (3"), with a light load of smokeless powder, yielding velocity of 2050 fps or less in a 26.5" barrel, then the name of the cartridge does not change.

The same rifle firing .395/340-grain GSC bullets or any bullet of 300 to 400-grains, let's say, at velocity of 2100 to 2300 fps in a 26.5" barrel: This changes things. New cartridge by proxy of loading.

Finally the world has a 400 Nitro Express (3") unadulterated, with no Jeffery or Purdey qualifier confusion.

The quest is ended.

Oh yeah. 7.5 pound falling block single shot, with 26.5" barrel would be as short as a bolt action with a 22.5" barrel. Very handy rifle.

Sights: Like a Ruger No.1, but fancier, quarter rib with scope bases and express rear, of course, since this is the 400 Nitro Express 3-Inch.

The .405-caliber 400 Purdey (3") Light Express has many aliases, including confusion with the original .395-caliber 400NFBP3", its ballistic twin , according to a list at:
http://mselect.free.fr/glossaries/denominations5.htm

.400 Purdey 3" Nitro-Express
.400 3" Straight
.400 Nitro for Black Powder
.400 Nitro for Black Powder 3"
.400 Purdey
.400 Black Powder Express
.400 Purdey Nitro-Express
.400 Light Rifle Express
.400 Purdey 3"
(10.2x76R)

http://ammo-one.com/400Purdey.html
http://www.municion.org/Purdey/400Purdey.htm







Yep, that is what the cartridge case of the brand new-old 400 Nitro Express 3" looks like.
Just imagine a better bullet (and a heavier smokeless powder charge) and a 1:12" twist!!!
It will kill like lightning with little thunder, and no recoil.

The "rightful" 400 Nitro Express 3" dummies:



I am down to my last two GSC .395 bullets for dummies.

There is a GSC FN .395/340-grainer loaded to COAL of 3.640" and a soft lead .395/400-grainer for paper patch use in .401 caliber rifles IIRC, seated to 3.740" COAL. On the left is a .405 WCF for comparison.

These dummies were made by necking up some 9.3x74R brass. They come out a little short.

This should be an easy source of useful ammo, pending the real deal headstamp.
It should be a real pleasure to shoot too, and better big game "medicine" than a .405 WCF 300-grainer.

Glad to be a part of renewing and making history

The new/old 400 nitro express (395)

the lightest recoiling big bore D.G. double rifle
And single shot

Where is the 400 nitro???? its here!

RIP...I think you are correct in your claims that the .395" bullet in the 400 black powder 3" is the rightful and most correct heir to the name "400 Nitro Express"

The others just tried to vie for such a great name.

you will have an involuntary pinky reflex every time you pull the trigger...lol