HA!/DOA presents the latest: The Board of Directors decided to boot the .308 Lapua and reinstate the .470 Mbogo in the Hanging Ten, as the biggest of the Serious Six Rigby based cartridges. It will require a non-switchbarrel rifle with its own unigue feed rails.

So, we will be offering a switch-barrel for:

.338 Lapua
.375 Chui
.416 Rigby
.423 Simba
.458 Nyati

There will be a second complete rifle solely for the .470 Mbogo.

There will be a third rifle, also a switch-barrel, for:

.408 CheyTac
.475 Kifaru
.505 Gibbs
.510 Tembo

The .475 Gibbs will be shortened in the neck and given a different shoulder angle. The .475 Kifaru final specs are as top secret as the .423 Dakota-Lapua.

Left to right, below: .375 Chui, .423 Simba, .458 Nyati, .475 Kifaru, .510 Tembo



Nose view of the HA!/DOA Big Five:



Hanging Ten with HA!/DOA:
(left to right)
.338 Lapua
.375 Chui
.416 Rigby
.423 Simba
.458 Nyati
.470 Mbogo
.408 Cheyenne Tactical
.475 Kifaru
.505 Gibbs
.510 Tembo




A comparison of the .470 Mbogo to the .475 Gibbs below. You see that there is room for neck shortening to create the .475 Kifaru.



The Serious Six Rigby Sisters below:



The Gibbs Brothers Four:

RIP,

You're an amazing guy!

Nice work.

Thank you Tex, you are too kind.
Wanna know how I made the .475 Gibbs dummy?

There's a lot of funny looking bullets out there.

How'd you do it?

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
There's a lot of funny looking bullets out there.

Yep,
And a lot of crazy people.

Tex,
The neck of some cast-off .505 Gibbs brass is run part way into the base of an RCBS .470 Capstick full length resizing die first, for about 1/3 inch, then a .480 Ruger handgun die is used to neck down all the way to the shoulder and then the bullet is seated verrrrry carefully using the .505 Gibbs seating die, then a Lee .480 Ruger crimp die with all the plugs pulled out is used to finish working the neck and mouth into shape around the bullet.

This Fake .475 Kifaru is just holding the spot for the secret-spec final case. We at HA!/DOA do not want Dakota to copy our design like they did with the .423 Dakota-Lapua idea.

nice work rip...hope you made time to eat turkey this thanksgiving


hey...this is a new one

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
nice work rip...hope you made time to eat turkey this thanksgiving


hey...this is a new one

Pilgrim,
I had turkey and hickory smoked venison, so I feel like a pilgrim myself. Then back to a fireside reading of the 1973 Guns & Ammo Annual article about the .475 Lott Tanner Dinosaur. Jack Lott was quite the Buckaroo Bonzai Wildcatter, black beret and all.

Then fire up a scanner and email Nick.

Where is that Pocahantas when I need a secretary???

It would seem that the .408 CheyTac necked up to .475 would make the perfect .475 Kifaru, shades of the .470 Royal: Ken Howell's book shows the ".470 Royal" as being 3.110" in case length. They only shortened the Gibbs overall case length by 0.040".
However they also moved the shoulder-neck juncture forward by 0.0548", so the .470 Royal neck is shorter than the .505 Gibbs by .0948". The .475 Kifaru will be different from this.

The .510 Gibbs will be a .505 Gibbs necked up by .005" with no other changes.

"A chicken in every pot, and a .475 Kifaru in every home."

"To Five-Ten Tembo or not to Five-Ten Tembo, that is the question, and it ain't a new dance."

(New marketing slogans from HA! and DOA.)

RIP,

I believe you have too much time on your hands. you need to find a hobby to take time away from this hobby.

bwanajcj,
This way lies sanity. Too many hours at the day job will make Ron a very dull boy unless he has something fun to do on weekends, when he can't hunt ...

Christmas weekend will be spent lovingly harvesting a meat bison locally ... I passed on the white tail doe that offered herself to me yesterday ... not enough time in my schedule to go on any extended hunting trips lately.

So, what really cheers me up? Why the prospects of a .475 Kifaru.

BTW, I scanned and sent the 1973 G&A Annual story by Jack Lott to Nick that is entitled:

THE .475 LTD LIVES!
subtitle: "A 500 Grain Bullet At 3000 fps Is Adequate For Dinosaur!"

It is only 4 pages of scan but about 8MB in my first attempt at scanning and sending to Nick. I hope he can use it to post here.

Jack Lott was just as giddy and goofy about his .475 L.T.D. as I have been about the HA!/DOA Big Five, Four Brothers Gibbs, and Serious Six Rigby Sisters, all Hanging Ten at HA!/DOA.

He seemed to think that 125 grains of IMR 3031 with a 500 grain Barnes Original RNSP would give about 2900 fps from the .475 LTD.

The .475 LTD case was only about 2.8" in length, but the head is that of the .577 Nitro Express, 0.6618" diameter.

The .475 Kifaru case will be about 3.000" in length and have a head diameter of the .505 Gibbs: 0.6402"

More to follow.

RIP,

Those pictures are about to make me abandon my twelve step program.

One Day At A Time, Brother, One Day At A Time . . .

All kidding aside, great photography and lots of fun.

Bwana MR,
Amateur stuff really, but I thank you for your good humor.
HA!/DOA may be only a dream, but I will have a set of HA!/DOA rifles before boom stick gets his.
Then I will go after the Big Five with them.
I guess the .475 Kifaru will get used last.

Ron,
well, if you are no longer preserving the 505 neck, shoulder, and taper, you may as well go ahead and do a 550 version. 700 grains at ~2650 ... you can do it

jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Ron,
well, if you are no longer preserving the 505 neck, shoulder, and taper, you may as well go ahead and do a 550 version. 700 grains at ~2650 ... you can do it

jeffe

Jeffe,
But I am preserving the .505 Gibbs taper in all of the Gibbs Brothers Four.

It appears that the .408 CheyTac is identical to the .505 Gibbs: it tapers down from a head and rim diameter of 0.6400" to a shoulder diameter of 0.6000" in the Jamison dummy round that I have.

The .505 Gibbs shoulder angle:
There are four versions floating around:

1. 25 degrees
2. 37.6 degrees
3. 37 degrees 45'
4. 45 degrees

Ken Howell shows a "Birmingham Proof House" drawing with no shoulder angle given, just the neck and shoulder diameters and the distance run between them which could be used to calculate an angle.

Ken Howell then shows a "CIP maximums" drawing that has a shoulder angle ("semi-angle" as Alf would more properly have it) of 45 degrees.

Clymer shows two reamers for the .505 Gibbs: One has a 25 degree angle.
The other has a 37 degree 45' angle.
Their .510/.505 Gibbs known as the ".50-.505 Gibbs" has a 45 degree angle.

Anywhere from 25 degrees to 45 degrees.

This might be what caused the snafu with A-Square loading .505 Gibbs ammo for CZ and them having to scrap it all. Jamison would appear to be the supplier for CZ now.

A-Square manual shows a shoulder angle of 37.6 degrees (not 37.75 degrees!) and they claim this is CIP!

Eyeballing the Jamison .505 Gibbs and .408 CheyTac brass, it seems that his angle is closer to the old 25 degrees than any other of the four choices above, but I do not have the recorded specs on this.

I must talk to Mr. Jamison again, and see when I can get more of his brass in .505 Gibbs and .408 CheyTac, and see what angles he specifies. Is the .408 CheyTac so Cosmic-Squirrel-Top-Secret proprietary that I can't find this info on the web? Still looking ...

So, Jeffe, I want to preseve the original Gibbs taper on all the biggies, just like the .338 Lapua preserves the original .416 Rigby body taper up to the point where the Lapua shoulder comes in at a casual 20 degree semi-angle. That is widely documented on the net and in the Lapua manual. I have seen one source that said 19 degrees 59' but that is 20 degrees everywhere else that is reliable.

I tend to want to go with 25 degrees on the HA!/DOA line of Gibbs cartridges, and 20 degrees on the Lapua line.

That lets out any possiblity of going to .550" bullets. Not enough shoulder. (Whew! Weasled out of that one!)

And no, I am not in competition with your AR Line of cartridges. HA!/DOA is a figment of my imagination. It is my latest schtick in describing my hobby wildcatting.

Maybe someday it will be real ... and I will hunt a rhino (either black or white) with the .475 Kifaru.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Ron,
well, if you are no longer preserving the 505 neck, shoulder, and taper, you may as well go ahead and do a 550 version. 700 grains at ~2650 ... you can do it

jeffe

jeffeosso...you might want to make this your next project after the a.r. carts...rip no want...call it the 550 p.h. and put it on a p.h. action...

rip...glad to see you are making good progress

i think the kifaru will be your cart to live beyond you

when you take it to get its namesake game i want to see lots of pics

keep up the good stuff

boom stick,
You are a Good Sport, and have served admirably as straight man for my schtick. It is real, but not on the scale we would like ... yet.

rip...have you thought about doing a 458,423 or 416 lapua trimmed to 2.65 with a coal of 3.35 for a standard mag length rifle???

would this work?

it would have a short neck but do-able isnt it?

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
rip...have you thought about doing a 458,423 or 416 lapua trimmed to 2.65 with a coal of 3.35 for a standard mag length rifle???

would this work?

it would have a short neck but do-able isnt it?

Sure boomstick,
I'll let you run with that idea. Your own company: Boomstick Arms, also known as BA! Makers of African Sheep Rifles.

I'll stick with the Long Neck Lapuas and Gibbs Cats, thank you. I'll let you know when the .423 Simba, .475 Kifaru, and .510 Tembo are finished. I have been shooting the .375 Chui and .458 Nyati with excellent results. I must not let distractions like shorter actions get in the way.