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ross10
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Is anyone having problems with accuracy using the CEB 375 Raptors. I have a 375 Rem UM that will shoot several different bullets under 1 MOA but with the raptors it is about 3 to 4" 3 shot groups at 100 yards--Any suggestions for loads to try. Ross
 
Posts: 314 | Registered: 01 April 2005Reply With Quote
michael458
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Ross

Twist Rate of the rifle?

Best Advice, Call Dan at CEB. I can't help any with 375 myself, but Dan and the boys have used that bullet a lot in different rifles doing test work, he may have some suggestions.

Michael


http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html

The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List!
Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom"

I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else.
 
Posts: 8426 | Location: South Carolina | Registered: 23 June 2008Reply With Quote
RIP
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ross10,
IIRC, the 1:12" twist is recommended by CEB for the 230-grain ESP L230.
It weighs about 7 grains more and is considerably longer with the Talon tip installed (1.637" spec).
That is the standard twist on the .375 RUM, eh?
Is yours a standard factory rifle with standard throat, or is it a custom job with known throat?

I have just started shooting these bullets in the .375/404 JS, with the new .375 Wby sort of throat.
With Norma 404 brass, this wildcat has only about 1 grain less capacity than the .375 RUM with RP brass.
My barrel is a 1:12", .375-grooved Lilja, 26" long.

We should have quite comparable loading needs other than throat factors.

Fired two sets of 3 shots.

Got 1.250" 3-shot group at 50 yards with long COL (3.690" with tip installed) and 84.0 grains of VARGET.
Velocity was 3091 fps with 39 fps ES.
QuickLOAD prediction had been: 2978 fps at 54,082 psi, 95 % fill.
Surprised me to get more than 100 fps faster velocity with my load.

Above is with two bands sticking out ahead of case mouth, and only one band inside the neck, crimped.

Recommended loading is with two bands inside case and only one band outside.
Shot three shots like that:

Got 1.375" 3-shot group at 50 yards with short COL (3.565" with tip) and 82.0 grains of VARGET.
Velocity was 3030 fps with ES 60 fps.
QuickLOAD prediction for this one was: 2962 fps at 54,086 psi, 96% fill.
Tested load was 68 fps faster than predicted.

I too need to find something more accurate.
Next step will be to increase the powder charge, to look for the sweet spot. tu2
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
boom stick
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There have been some good groups with the 230 grain 375 Raptor. Might need some load tuning.



577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375

*we band of 45-70ers* (Founder)
Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder)
 
Posts: 27615 | Location: Where tech companies are trying to control you and brainwash you. | Registered: 29 April 2005Reply With Quote
ross10
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230 Raptors turned around and drilled 1/2" deep 90 grains of IMR 4895
 
Posts: 314 | Registered: 01 April 2005Reply With Quote
ross10
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quote:
Originally posted by ross10:
230 Raptors turned around and drilled 1/2" deep 90 grains of IMR 4895 100 yards
 
Posts: 314 | Registered: 01 April 2005Reply With Quote
ross10
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raptors
 
Posts: 314 | Registered: 01 April 2005Reply With Quote
RIP
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quote:
Originally posted by boom stick:
There have been some good groups with the 230 grain 375 Raptor. Might need some load tuning.



3345 fps MV is good, eh?
I like that, and acknowledge that I may need a shorter throat to do that kind of accuracy with the Raptor 230,
but hope I don't have to have a .375/.408 Chey-Tac to do it. tu2
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
michael458
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quote:
Originally posted by RIP:
quote:
Originally posted by boom stick:
There have been some good groups with the 230 grain 375 Raptor. Might need some load tuning.



3345 fps MV is good, eh?
I like that, and acknowledge that I may need a shorter throat to do that kind of accuracy with the Raptor 230,
but hope I don't have to have a .375/.408 Chey-Tac to do it. tu2




That is actually the 200 gr 338 caliber Raptor in the 600 yard target.

M


http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html

The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List!
Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom"

I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else.
 
Posts: 8426 | Location: South Carolina | Registered: 23 June 2008Reply With Quote
boom stick
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Oh, sorry. I thought that group was from the 375.
Well just imagine larger holes Wink


577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375

*we band of 45-70ers* (Founder)
Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder)
 
Posts: 27615 | Location: Where tech companies are trying to control you and brainwash you. | Registered: 29 April 2005Reply With Quote
capoward
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Ok….375 caliber ESP Raptors – I had to do some digging to pull this together but here it is, all pulled from the Terminal Bullet Performance thread:
quote:
Originally posted by michael458:
Well let's get started with a few terminals. Have most reports ready for you.

Sam and I eliminated a good portion of what we had planned in short order. We did not like the stability of the .277s, or 7mm Raptors, so we dropped them from the terminal schedule. We went straight to the 375 230 Raptors.

Sam loaded for his 375 B&M, but since he had no data the loads were very mild in comparison to what they could have been, therefore terminals I think a little short on overall penetration than what they could have been as well. All #13s, including Raptors, like velocity. This Raptor running 2800 or 2900 fps would be an entirely different animal than the sedate velocities we were running with it yesterday.

First up 230 Raptor NonCon--No Tip



I was in the floor digging out blades, Sam dug out the bullets and checked overall penetration. When he said 15 inches I was somewhat surprised, but two things, the front of this mix had a few dry spots i the middle, so it was slightly tougher than it really should have been, my fault. Next, impact velocity was low. My estimate is the drier middle accounted for at least 1-2 inches of penetration in this particular test.

Moving to the 230 Raptor with Tips increased the impact velocity by fair margins, along with a better medium that had no dry spots. Penetration increased substantially at that point.

On both of these it's the same old story with the blades, shear at 2 inches, blades from 4-7 inches. I did not even put it on the data that goes with the bullet, all basically the same. I did not even add, Massive Trauma--that's become all the same as well. This is getting rather boring, it's always the same story time after time. Damned things work so good it's getting monotonous!




At some point I know Sam can load some of these up to high end speeds, and we will test again. The story will be the same however, just more trauma inflicted and deeper penetration! I can tell you that now without testing!

Michael

And,
quote:
Originally posted by michael458:
Thought I would break this in a couple of posts, to keep one from getting too long.
-----
Well, ok, let's move this back to 20 feet and see what happens. We arranged everything best we could 20 feet in front of the target. All shooting was done at the 25 yd bench.
-----
Sam and I still had that rat gun with some .375 230 Raptors, loaded as solids! Well, you know what we did eh? If you guessed that we had to shoot through a 4x4 treated block at 20 ft and test terminals, THEN YOU WIN THE PRIZE!!!!!!!! YES, that's exactly what we did with one bullet just to see what happened, and here it is!


And then to test one without the 4x4 Treated to see as well.



Less penetration after going through the 4x4 and 20 ft of air is of no surprise at all. To be perfectly stable to 35 inches is somewhat of a surprise!

Michael
And finally,
quote:
Originally posted by michael458:
OK for all you HI BC and BBW#13 fans. Remember, above I corrected the statement on the 375 HH. It was NOT 3.600 with the tip installed---3.600 before tip, with makes it long for magazine.

Now, listen very carefully!

This option for the BBW#13 NonCon is just that, an option for you to have something in your pocket for that long range 300 yd or 400 yd shot with the same BBW#13. Most ALL Of them are going to be too long for magazines in the bolt guns, as the BBW#13 NonCon is first and foremost a Dangerous Game bullet, and has already been designed to fit in the magazines WITHOUT the tip. It will be KIT form, put your own tips in a few to have in your belt, pocket or wherever for that longer range opportunity that you might run across while hunting buffalo or such! That is all it is for, nothing more.

I think if you wanted a Hi BC bullet specific for more full time use, you need to have one designed by Dan for that purpose, much like RIP and Max did for their .395s recently.

While I am glad to help out with this, and of course I will keep some tips on hand for you guys, I have little actual interest in them personally. I LOVE THE #13 NonCon just like it is! Sam and I will be working with Dan to tweak the tip, and get it right for terminals and such over the next week or so. Right now, preliminary results show that the tip does change the dynamics of terminals. So I will be looking at that first. So a little tweaking is needed, but probably not much.

As for raising the BC---No doubt it does in fact. Accurate, like always, absolutely. This is target that Dan sent to me last night shot with the 375 #13 NonCon at 600 Yards! And Dan's comments;
quote:
Trapper shot 3 three shot groups at 600 yards with the tipped .375 bullets. 7.25", 7", and 6.75". Not to shabby for a #13. BC still maintained between .500 and .530. We will confirm through the 43 but it is impressive.

Dan Smitchko
Cutting Edge Bullets





Now to add to the last post; the .375 H&H with 275gr CEB BBW#13 HP NonCon was 3.600" before the high BC Talon Tip was installed - and I believe that tip was around 0.550" in length - so most definately will not work from the normal hunting rifle magazine! It's definately a 'one up the tube' scenario...


Jim coffee
"Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid"
John Wayne
 
Posts: 4954 | Location: Central Texas | Registered: 15 September 2007Reply With Quote
impala#03
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Rifle- Ruger #1 375 H&H
Powder- RL 15 Start at about 74.0 gr and work up
Primer- CCI BR2
Velocity- 3070 average
5 shots @ 100 yds- 1.0"

I think I can do better with tweaking.
 
Posts: 2173 | Location: NORTHWEST NEW MEXICO, USA | Registered: 05 March 2008Reply With Quote
impala#03
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I'm sorry, 375 Raptor 235 gr.
 
Posts: 2173 | Location: NORTHWEST NEW MEXICO, USA | Registered: 05 March 2008Reply With Quote
capoward
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quote:
Originally posted by impala#03:
Rifle- Ruger #1 375 H&H
Powder- RL 15 Start at about 74.0 gr and work up
Primer- CCI BR2
Velocity- 3070 average
5 shots @ 100 yds- 1.0"

I think I can do better with tweaking.
clap Very nice shooting!


Jim coffee
"Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid"
John Wayne
 
Posts: 4954 | Location: Central Texas | Registered: 15 September 2007Reply With Quote
impala#03
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Thank you capoward. This rifle has been accurate since new. The 235 Raptors shoot about 2" higher than 300 gr Nosler Partitions. I'm fortunate that I have my own range at my home, I get to shoot a lot.
 
Posts: 2173 | Location: NORTHWEST NEW MEXICO, USA | Registered: 05 March 2008Reply With Quote
boom stick
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quote:
Originally posted by impala#03:
Thank you capoward. This rifle has been accurate since new. The 235 Raptors shoot about 2" higher than 300 gr Nosler Partitions. I'm fortunate that I have my own range at my home, I get to shoot a lot.


This has been of some discussion on another forum. The time of flight is quicker in typical hunting ranges so less drop. Quick, flat and D E A D L Y. People think because the BC is not high it won't shoot flat but because it gets there quicker it shoots flatter unless you are talking real long range. Another advantage of a quick bullet is on game that might take a step as you pull the trigger. A quarter second could be the difference between a good and ok shot. A heavy slower bullet might retain more velocity but if the bullet gets there quicker and out penetrates the heavy bullet it a win win scenario for the tipped Raptor.


577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375

*we band of 45-70ers* (Founder)
Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder)
 
Posts: 27615 | Location: Where tech companies are trying to control you and brainwash you. | Registered: 29 April 2005Reply With Quote
capoward
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quote:
Originally posted by impala#03:
Thank you capoward. This rifle has been accurate since new. The 235 Raptors shoot about 2" higher than 300 gr Nosler Partitions. I'm fortunate that I have my own range at my home, I get to shoot a lot.
Ah the dream that many of us have - our own range out our own back door! Color me envious...


Jim coffee
"Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid"
John Wayne
 
Posts: 4954 | Location: Central Texas | Registered: 15 September 2007Reply With Quote
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