I have this idea that a .510 cal rifle is a good plan.... What Ruger action would one need to start with to build a 500 Jeff? Would it work to use a standard mag action (like a .300 Win mag or a 375 Ruger) and lengthen the mag/action as needed, or should one start with the big RSM action in 375 H&H? Either way the bolt face is about the right size, I just don't know if the really large magnum action is truly needed.

Are there aftermarket magazine boxes for Rugers that accommodate the width of this cartridge? I'd like to get at least 2 down in a staggered mag if possible. How difficult are the feed mods needed for this action/cartridge? I have heard that the 500 Jeffery is tough to make feed correctly.

Also, I'd like to do a stainless/synthetic setup, even if it is not traditional for this cartridge. What synthetic stocks would be up to this recoil level? Would a laminate stock be a better bet?

Save yourself the grief and guesswork and get one "off the rack" from AHR.

500 Jeff

You're going to have a hard time finding bottom metal for it. It's just not a good choice to start with.

ETA: AHR is good to go.

Been there done that got one.

Brad

stainless, and stardard action ruger?
maybe ... i think it could be made to work, and would be an interesting project

bolt face would work, due to rebate, but remember, on the standard action, it is a 1" tenon .. the RSM action is FAR larger in size,

however, you can take that same stainless barreled action, send off to mcgowen, and have them do it in 500 AccRel .. brass and dies are cheaper, and its the same power, NO REBATE or belt, and you can make brass from 416 rigby cases

2+1 is easy
i've used the hogue - not with bedding block, and it worked, but i am not perfectly happy with that,,, i think the better/harder stocks would be better

dies are $125+ahipping
brass, headstamped, is a hair over $3

stainless ruger with stock - $500
Rebarrel work - 600-800
stock and bedding, $200 (new pad too)

there you go
600gr at 2300, 535 at over 2400 .. though 2150 for hornady 570s is a nice load

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:
Save yourself the grief and guesswork and get one "off the rack" from AHR.

500 Jeff

+1

Follow up Post:

I think that the question you ask will generate a lot of different opinions. If the only goal is to launch a .510 diameter projectile downrange I agree with the other posters that there are much better ways to do this than with a 500 Jeffery case. The 500 A2 would do it just fines as well as other spin off’s such as the AHR ect… I really wanted to approach this with a much more nostalgic approach. Therefore, things like synthetic stocks and stainless steel wasn’t even a consideration. The Ruger RSM was in my view the closet place to start without going with a fully custom gun. The end result is a very nice rifle that gives me a great deal of satisfaction in shooting. It looks like what I think an African gun should be. I will not argue that the 500 Jeffery is the best .510 round out there it might be the worst, but when I started this project I knew what I wanted. Jim Dubell steered me away from the 505 Gibbs because he didn’t feel there was enough metal on the bolt for a SAFE & RELIABLE DG Rifle. The choice is yours but I would suggest you think about what you want in the end. I get a lot more satisfaction from a nice looking blued Woodstock rifle than a plastic Star Wars gun. Someday I hope to purchase a nice double rifle in 470 or 500 NE just because I want that type of experience. My current project is setting up a Mod 70 Classic Safari in 404 Jeffery. Good luck and have fun.

Brad

I like the way those rounds fit in that magazine-no room for them to smash around under recoil.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I like the way those rounds fit in that magazine-no room for them to smash around under recoil.

It's not that big an issue and gets trotted out time and again.

Hard to make a Mag box that suits 535gn bullets AND 600gn bullets.

Just crimp them correctly if you think it will be an issue.

quote:

Originally posted by 500N:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I like the way those rounds fit in that magazine-no room for them to smash around under recoil.

It's not that big an issue and gets trotted out time and again.

Hard to make a Mag box that suits 535gn bullets AND 600gn bullets.

Just crimp them correctly if you think it will be an issue.

My bullets are crimped.Have you ever shot your rifle offhand with a full magazine? Have you ever stopped after firing a round or two and then inspect the rounds remaining in the magazine?

I'm in the process of building my 510 MAKATAK, a Rigby based 50 cal on a much used 30-06 tang action Ruger I bought just for this project. McGowen #7 taper, 25.5" barrel with integral muzzle brake, 8 rows, 5 - 5/32" holes in a slight swirl pattern. PT&G did my reamer.

The cartridge is blown out at the shoulder to 0.575, minimum taper, 0.500" neck length, Rigby case shortened to 2.85", basically the fire formed Hornady 416 Rigby case length with the shoulder pushed back 0.050".

Case capacity is ~145 gr H2O, actual weigh not calculated...just about 5 gr H2O less than the Jeff. Case capacity with seated 535 gr bullet ~112 gr H2O...2400 fs should be easily attainable at ~52KCUP.

And I agree with Macifej...if you don't have access to a lathe and milling machine and can do the work yourself, you would be miles ahead to have someone who has the knowledge and HAS BUILT some rifles build you a heavy shooter.

This isn't a real hard project...much easier than converting my Mauser 98 to 9,3 x 62, and about the same level of problems when converting a standard Savage LA 300WM/458WM mag box or doing the work required to install a longer, factory 375 H&H mag box.

The tang Ruger hasn't presented too many problems, all of which were anticipated prior to buying the used rifle(I have two other tang Rugers I used for measurments) and easily addressed.

The magazine length is 3.3" MAX...I designed my case around Cast Performance 0.511", 535 gr WFNGC heat treated, hard cast bullet...it has a HUGE meplat and juse enough curvature to slide up the slightly reshaped and polished ramp and at 3.26" COAL will crimp in the crimp groove of the bullet. The bullet base is slightly below the shoulder junction.

It will handle the 570-600 gr slugs at the same COAL but lose a bit of case capacity.

I'm sure you could get the Jeff case to work in this push feed application but you would need some rail work because the OEM rail width will just accommodate the blown out Rigby cartridge at the front and rear without any rail work.

But why bother??? Other than nostalgia, there are several much better cases today to use that will get you the same or more pizzazz and performance a heck of a lot easier than doing the Jeff...not to mention much cheaper dies...I paid Ch4D $232 bucks for my set and should receive them this month... AR and AHR dies are both available right now and at roughly half the price.

I did have to put in two flat plates on each side of the magazine with lips bent to hold the cases(cannibalized Savage magazine sides ), and the magazine will hold two down with almost enough room for a third. I will make a modified floor plate sometime this year to add the ~1/4" needed extension to handle the third case.

AS far as the bolt is concerned...all I had to do was chuck it up in the 4 jaw, center it, attach my air grinder to the cross feed, insert a 1/4" "safe" carbide grinder and grind out the required amount to 0.600" to handle the Rigby rim...the same thing needs to be done to the Jeff...it left ~0.050" ring around the boltface, but I removed the upper quadrant and will probably remove the lower quad which leaves a section under the extractor and around the ejector...about 25% arc each.

I also had to reshape the extractor to fit the Rigby Rim. This being a push feed it was easy...to do a controlled round is a whole new ball game and you can do some searching to find out just how much trouble and time it takes...it's been done before.

I guarantee you a few things...nostalgia costs an arm and leg plus one of your more dear hangy-downs...ANY divergence from a standard platform guarantees geometrically increasing costs...but if you got the ca-ca-ca-cash go for whatever you want.

Hey...you don't have to have a cannon to get your nose smashed in an magazine...I've had 220 gr 356 Win's in a levergun tube get re-arranged and even something as light recoiling as a 243 Win if their isn't any shoulder in the mag to stop the cases from moving.

Luck.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
My bullets are crimped.Have you ever shot your rifle offhand with a full magazine? Have you ever stopped after firing a round or two and then inspect the rounds remaining in the magazine?

Neither my 505 Gibbs or my 500 Jeff are Safe queens although I have only taken the 505 Hunting.

Yes, I only ever shoot them off hand and almost always with a full magazine.

Yes, sometimes the nose of 525/535gn bullets have a bit of a flat spot in them but it makes stuff all difference to trajectory and the animals that get hit with them.

That's why the Woodleigh PP bullets were made.

If I'm hunting / culling and only partly use a magazine, before the next shoot I tend to rotate my ammo anyway putting the bottom rounds on top.

Hey, thanks FOOBAR.I checked the size of the mag boxes,with a dial caliper, in both my Rugers and found one to be much wider than the other.The Ruger with the wide box is the one bashing my rounds.I am going to order a new one from Brownells.

There is a big difference between the MkI Tang and MkII mag boxes. I checked two of my LA Tang models, one standard and one a mag and BOTH mag boxes measured the same, plus I checked two old parts list for the Tang model and only two mag boxes were listed...one was for the 220 swift only...but you never know and I'm not a Ruger expert even though I have 4 right now and have had a well over a dozen over the years.

Lots of differences in the Mk I, Mk II and now the new Hawkeye models.

I have two,newly bought,of the latest RSM lotts and both there mag boxes are not the same size.I had no issues using one of the two.Brownells has three mag boxes listed for the MKII magnum.I guess one could be for the Rigby and another for the 375.The wide magazine box won't stay flush with the feed ramp.It keeps on popping out from under the ramp damaging my case necks too.The two mag boxes do not look the same with the metal on one looking a little thicker that the other.

I missed that you were talking about the new models...I was taking about the tang MKI.

Yes, there are several mag boxes for the new model. I ordered a 458 size box and lifter to see how/if I could use it in my application. The box was bowed inward slightly, the metal was thinner, it wasn't as deep at the MKI mag box and it was 0.100" wider. While I could have used the extra width, the rest was a waste.

I've designed and drawn up a mag that might solve my 3rd round problem without impregnating the floor plate. 0.115" wider box will allow for 3 cartridges down, and the stock mag cutout sidewalls are thick enough to handle that amount of wood loss without getting too flexible.

I haven't had all three mags in hand to compare so I can't comment on the problem.

They might be like the Savage mags, the "recoil shoulder" ridge are at different locations depending on the shape of the cartridge...and the 458 mag box didn't have ANY ridge.

I would call Ruger and tell them the problem...they might have changed suppliers or the quality control went south and a few bad boxes were produced...or the person putting the rifle together grabbed the wrong box...sounds like something went sour anyway.

Luck

I am "special," the only man in the world who owns and shoots a 500 Mbogo.
Got two of them on CZ 550s.
My fat-barreled Ruger .416 Rigby would be perfect for reboring and rechambering to 500 Mbogo No. 3.
Minimal feed work needed, fits 3 in the wide, shallow .416 Rigby box as is.

It completely obsoletes the 500 Jeffery,
except for nostalgia purposes.
It completely obsoletes the 500 A-Square, period.
This is a ".510/.416 Rigby 3-inch" a neck-up and slight lengthening of the neck of the 470 Mbogo to .510/470 Mbogo 3-inch.
Those are the specs, completely and perfectly specified right there, above, in bold.
Brass available from Quality Cartridge.
Dies available from Redding.
Reamer from Dave Manson.
And I don't care if anyone else in the world shoots one besides me.
Ain't I special?
500 Mbogo is also known as the "Fifty Ought Eight."
Ditto the .395 Tatanka (Forty Ought Seven).

The "compleat rifle hunter" choice big game battery:
30-06
40-07
50-08

Very "special."

RIP, what kind of velocity do you get with the 600 grainers? Does it have any problem with the 570 Barnes banded solid?

Not the Ruger MK II but I think the 500-450 Rigby would be the easiest since all it would need is a rebore on a 450 Rigby and a simple neck up of 450 Rigby brass.

Same shoulder width as the 500 Mbogo but nominal brass length and minimal brass forming. Just neck up 450 Rigby brass.

Same goes for the 505-450 Rigby and 490-450 Rigby. (.500")

416 Rigby donor would be the cheapest but some feed work.

quote:

30-06
40-07
50-08

Rip
Don't forget your 60-09 or 20 gauge from purgatory

70-10 12 GFH?
Next year you could do the 80-11 or 800 Godzilla

I couldn't find any 450 Rigby cases that I could(would) afford when I needed them for my 510 MAKATAK, so I used Hornady 416 Rigby cases.

Graf's listed the 450 Rigby, but at 5-6 bucks a pop...no way, Jose, I can do the work myself and buy more brass with the savings. Even at that I had to wait 3 months for the Hornady brass, everyone was in panic mode. They fireformed perfectly in the chamber and shortened to 2.85" so I didn't have to trim.

Still...using the 450 R brass saves a step.

I think anyone who steps off the beaten path, hears a different drum and dances to a different beat is special...and not understood by ANY side.