Hi all, well I called Harlan at Triple River Gunsmithing and the converion of my CZ 550 in 375 H&H to 500 Jeffery is still 2 to 4 weeks out, the McGowen barrels just arrived. I guess maybe I'll get lucky and those new RCBS Safari 3 die sets will be out by then saving me about $300 on dies. I'm planning on using Jamison brass, RL-15 and 600g Woodleigh PPs starting out at about 2000 fps and working up to 2150 fps. I figure that will be enough for anything I ever plan to hunt. Now that the weather is starting to warm up in Colorado I'm getting a bit impatient lol ...

Regards all,

Chuck

Wishing you luck on your project...

I saw what the 570 woodleighs did to pigs from Jeffeosso's 500 AR on his Ruger MkII action and the results were quite impressive. Them Woodleighs do the job!

Chuck...best of luck...I shoot a 500 Jeff, also, and I simply love it. I only load the original 535 gr bullet weights, but, you're right when you say the 600 grainers ought to handle anything. Too bad T-Rex's are extinct!

Gary
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Chuck:

I have a CZ .500 Jeffery as well. I love the gun. In fact, my son just shot a bison with it yesterday.

The only thing I would suggest to you is that unless you are hunting elephants, that 535 grain Woodleigh is all you need. My son took his bison with just a single shoot just behind the shoulder with a 535 grain Woodleigh RNSP. The bison turned 180 degrees, went about 20 feet and was down for the count. If I was hunting cape buffalo, I would use a 535 grain protected point for the fist shot with the same weight solids in the magazine. I have shot some of the 600 grain bullets and trust me, there is a serious increase in recoil. Just my two cents.

Dave

Thanks Dave, I will give the 535s a try. One thing I don't need with a 500 Jeffery is a serious increase in recoil lol

Thanks again,

Chuck

Chuck:

If you need help with load data, just let me know.

Dave

Thanks Dave, I'll PM you when my rifle and dies come in. I'm holding out for those new RCBS Safari 3 Die sets, it will save me $300. I hope they're not vaporware.

Chuck

Chuck, if you want a good article about the .500 Jeffery, check out this one at RealGuns:

http://www.realguns.com/archives/156.htm

They give a whole bunch of data in part two or the article. Beware, this stuff is really hot!

Dave

Thanks Dave, I've read it and have it bookmarked. I've also got the A-Square "Any Shot You Want" and Barnes reloading manuals. I'm thinking a nice 535g at a sedate 2000 fps to start ... My rifle should weigh around 11.25 lbs without scope (2 recoil reducers) and I'm having a Pachmyer XLT pad put on as well (I know you recommend the F990 but I can't get past the looks), so hopefully that will help some with the recoil. Here's an image of my rifle before the conversion and a representative group I shot with it at 100 yards. I hope it shoots as well as a 500 Jeffery.






Chuck

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Hi ALF, I certainly wasn't making any claims for anyone. I just mentioned I had several sources of load data. What Art Alphin claims I haven't the least interest in.

Regards,

Chuck

Chuck,

That's a nice group you got with your 375, looks like you missed the bull's eye by about half an inch though. You need to work on you marksmanship.


Will you be having anything else done to the rifle like having a steel grip cap installed, red recoil pad, etc.?

Actually I'm having a black Pachmayr XLT recoil pad on it. Once I get comfortable with it and successfully hunt something toothy with it, I want to get an the checkering gone over, an ebony foreend and grip cap put on and the stain darkened to look more like this Hartmann and Weiss rifle which I never could afford:



Regards,

Chuck

Alf,

Yesterday, when you sent your obnoxious email to us at Real Guns, the only problem you had was with a three sentence general reference to the documented history of the cartridge. This information appeared as a lead in to 8,000 words regarding handloading the .500 Jeffery and an evaluation of the CZ-Custom Safari rifle. As I said, when I apparently wasted my time responding to your email yesterday, those three sentences mearly repeat what every commercial publication cites regarding the .500 Jeffery's origins, including those expressed on pages 598 and 599 of A-Square's "Any Shot You Want" where they credit as I stated for revival of the .500 Jeffery.

Before trashing someone's work, at least try to be accurate and fair in your public comments. For other opinions regarding the validity and substance of the article, I would suggest contacting Jason Morton at CZ-USA or Randy or Jessica Brooks at Barnes and ask thier opinion of the material. Randy Barnes hunts with a .500 Jeffery as a personal firearm and Jason can speak with authority for the group that builds all of the CZ Safari rifles.

My article contains heavy loads, there are also moderate loads and there are light cast bullet loads. I did not suggest using the heavy loads, these were assembled to mostly assess bullet construction. Again, if you actually read the article, you would know its purpose.

In closing, the fact that you would advise someone to check a new CZ to see if it takes the Jeffery or a Schuler suggests you are as I thought you were, a pretentious bag of wind. The fact you would go to these lengths to trash a writer with such sweeping generalizations and back stabbing, two faced tactics suggests you are...an American hating Canadian. Thank you. Now I got to express my opinion of you.

ALF:

I have to agree with Joe here. I thought the article was very well written. I have a CZ .500 Jeffery and I think all this controvery about Jeffery versus Schuler is well....silly. As far as I can tell, the C.I.P spec is the Jeffery design as are all of the new guns. I think the Horneber brass is Schuler type which works perfectly in my gun. You put in a Schuler, fire it once and out pops a Jeffery. The Jamison brass (RCBS dies) is the C.I.P spec Jeffery design and while they had some bumps getting it up and going, the last run is great.

You owe these guys an apology. It was a well written article.

Joe, that 118 grain load of Reloder 15 with a 535 grain Woodleigh is too much for me. I never go over 112 grains

Dave Bush

Chuck....Dave and I have been conversing about 500 Jeff loads. I have a Heym bolt and shoot 535 gr Woodie softs and solids with the following loads:

106 gr H4895 with 535 Wood soft- 2330 fps
105 " " " solid- 2325

110 gr RL15 with 535 Wood soft- 2340 fps
108 " " " solid- 2330 fps

Rusty gave me a load with 535 Woodies of 105 gr of Varget which produced for him approx. 2300+ fps if I recall correctly.

As far as Jeffery vs Schuler.....don't know....HOWEVER...the new Jamison brass, as Dave states, is nuts on perfect...and I KNOW FOR A FACT that my Heym rifle is CIP for Jeffery.

Gary
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Gary:

I still haven't had a chance to get out to the range and run my 110 grain/535 Woodie load across the chrony since they put the new barrel on. I'll try and get it done as soon as I can. I also want to chrony the 400 grain Hornaday in the .500/.416.

Were you surprised at how easy the .500 Jeffery is to shoot?

Dave

OK guys....your back and forth banter MADE me read the articles....2 of them actually. What's the beef? There's nothing wrong with these articles. The author pretty much states what he is looking at doing and then does it. I don't claim it to PhD thesis material....but neither does the author. Nonetheless....good stuff can be gleaned from the stories.
I, for one, do not intend to hot rod the Jeffery as my body and gun only need the 46,000 psi loads to knock the pi$$ out of anything I'll shoot with it, including elephant.
If I have trouble with 535 gr solids at 2300+/-, I'll let you all know next year when I return from Zim....then again, if I have troubles, maybe I won't......return.....from .....Zim.

Gary
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Hey, Dave....I'd like to see what that load does in your Jeff as compared to mine.
I'm curious also on the Hornady bullets in the 500/416....did you load them with the 108 gr H1000 load? I think I sent you....probably buried in one of the brass packages...the actually chrono readout from a range trip. Curious to see if loads are similar, how the speeds are.

Thanks.

Gary
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Gary, I only loaded the 400 grain Hornadays with 106.5 grains of H1000. Even though they are a bit lighter than the Woodleighs and at least appear to have less bearing surface, I was using the Jamsion brass that you sent. I wanted to back them off a bit because I wasn't sure how the change is brass would effect the velocity. From the looks of the primers, I don't think it had much of an effect but I need to shoot them across the chrony to be sure.

Dave

Did they seem to regulate, Dave?

Gary
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Gary:

I haven't put them on paper yet but they sure "regulated" the hell out of some water jugs

Dave

And that is important regulation right there!!!!

Gary
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Alf,
Thanks to you, I acquired the monograph that spells all this out.
I studied the 500 Jeffery intensely before I gave it up in favor of the 500A2, 505 Gibbs, and best of all, the 500 Mbogo.


Thanks for trying again.
Some just want to be offended and become offensive themselves, merely because of the facts, the truth.

Similarly misguided as, but not so humorous as, the "regulation" of a single-barreled rifle.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RIP:

I studied the 500 Jeffery intensely before I gave it up in favor of the 500A2, 505 Gibbs, and best of all, the 500 Mbogo.


Thanks for trying again.
Some just want to be offended and become offensive themselves, merely because of the facts, the truth.

Similarly misguided as, but not so humorous as, the "regulation" of a single-barreled rifle.
[

/QUOTE]

Okay, RIP has spoken. Since he has "studied the 500 Jeffery intensely" before giving up on it we now know that it is not worthy of our consideration. What a bunch of

/

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
What a bunch of

Sir,
You resemble that remark!

Is Alf's "true history" too much for you?

If so, then I think you must resemble the 500 Jeffery too:

fat head
short little neck
and
you must be wearing one of those extra-extra-small thongs to simulate the severely rebated rim ...
of a cartridge that deserves a magnum action and is
misguidedly built on standard M98.

You got your thong on, don't you Dave?

Okay RIP, I recognize it can't be near as good as some dumb ass .395 cartridge you invented. Maybe August Schuler didn't have your expertise.

I am assuming since you studied the cartridge intensely and didn't build one that you don't have one, never did and have never shot or reloaded for a .500 Jeffery. That means that you just don't know jack about the cartridge.

Ooooooooohhhhhhhhhh, it's got a rebated rim. I am so scared. This Jeffery/Schuler thing has been beaten to death and you would understand that if you had ever had a .500 Jeffery. Your just like some little old lady. Look up the word "pretentious" in the dictionary. They have a picture of you.

Dave

Boys....I have a year old Heym 500 Jeff that feeds as good as anything I own or have owned...and it ain't single stack....matter of fact, holds 4 down. In addition, I have a "Game Ranger" WR rifle in 425WR that doesn't have the clips...and it feeds flawlessly. I've got nothing at all against the newer "invented" rounds.....but I just prefer the old classics.
Hell, there's probably 3 or 4 opines as to how the Jeffery/Schuler thing went.....and, being as I'm not a historian, don't give a fat rats a$$...I know I like the 500 Jeff.
I think this backlash may have started with Alf's comments...best I can tell...but, Alf...I don't usually see you post as a rude sort. I think the article in question had some usable info....and don't think it was written to have it be taken as the Gospel.
Alf/RIP....I agree there were many issues with which rifle/brass was CIP or not....got caught up in it myself with my new rifle....couldn't shoot anything but Kynoch factory at $13.50 a touch. Worked with the Jamison folks though...as did some others...and learned A LOT...I even have some drawings that don't match anything you posted, Alf. But Jamison finally got it right and now she shoots much cheaper and real accurate....with the latest and greatest (2002...I believe) CIP "standards.

So now, I believe I load me up a few and go shooting.

Gary
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There are alot of cartridges out there now with rebated rims and various other details to them that many of us would believe to be sub standard, but it is my belief that Jeffery and Schuler developed this round for the actions available at the time. The .500Jeffery in the field has already done it's time proving to be a stopper. I agree there are other .50s availlable that match and exceed the Jeffery in performance and in the mechanics of what is entailed in the proper funtioning of a well built rifle, but the .500 Jeffery/Schuler was the first true .50 turnbolt so it has it's place with the classics. Rodney.

/

ALF...are you sure Horneber made Kynoch (new stuff) brass? I was under the impression that it was made by Bertram...but that's only heresay...I have no knowledge one way or the other.
I do know that I have current drawings for 500 Jeff CIP and that both the Kynoch brass and the Jamison brass are a touch off....but both work great in my rifle. You are correct, ALF...the shoulder was a big issue...but so was the rim diameter and thickness....big issue on the earlier Jamison stuff.

Gary
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quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
Your just like some little old lady. Look up the word "pretentious" in the dictionary. They have a picture of you.
Dave

Sir,
You resemble that remark too!
Fits you perfectly!
Got a burr under your thong, eh?

As a matter of fact, I am a world-renowned consultant on the 500 Jeffery.
I have been known to confer with 500 Jeffery owners on their load development
and actually travel to their home ranges to assist in testing.

Here is a 50-yard one-hole, ironsight target I shot with Leonard's (aka lb404) Sterling Davenport 500 Jeffery,
at the start of his sighting-in experiments in Oklahoma, yes it really was 107F,
and a good load for all afflicted with the 500 Jeffery, though I might add a few grains of Dacron to prevent the powder shake.
Forgive me, those tired of seeing this excellent load,
same one Rusty recommended to Garby:


The 500 Jeffery does have accuracy potential.

Alas, I use my 500 Jeffery dies merely as a partial neck sizer and crimper for the 500 Mbogo,
though I have a Redding 3-die set for the 500 Mbogo,
and my own brass for it from Quality Cartridge.

There is no confusion over the 500 Mbogo.
I am the world authority on that "one."
No pretense there at all. Ha ha.

With 4 other sporting 50's, why would I want a 500 Jeffery?
For curio-collector sake ... nostalgia ... or just for kicks.



L to R above: 500A2, 500Mbogo, 500Jeffery, 505Gibbs

There is really nothing special about the 500 Jeffery, other than its oddity, and the confusion surrounding it.
Some here still do not understand what Alf has written.
He keeps repeating himself in hopes that some will loosen their thongs and let some blood get to their brains.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
What a bunch of

Sir,
You resemble that remark!

Is Alf's "true history" too much for you?

If so, then I think you must resemble the 500 Jeffery too:

fat head
short little neck
and
you must be wearing one of those extra-extra-small thongs to simulate the severely rebated rim ...
of a cartridge that deserves a magnum action and is
misguidedly built on standard M98.

You got your thong on, don't you Dave?

More truth to that statement than you know ...

Come on Dave ..!! A man in your line of work has to have thicker hide ...???

Mac,
You have had some dealings with Dave "The Thong" Bush that were not pleasant?

Some people do have a way of taking things, and themselves, too seriously, especially when they are thong, er uh, wrong!

I dunno..history suggests that this is the largest cartridge that was DESIGNED to fit the standard 98...and indeed it does that just plumb swell!

No...there is no need for a larger action...unless...you want to..hell, carry an apple in your pocket if it makes you feel better

If you choose to use a standard M98,
keep the loads no hotter than that 535-grainer at 2300 fps.

We 500 Mbogo and 500A2 shooters prefer 570 and 600-grainers at no more than 2500 fps.

"We" also feel that the 500 Mbogo and 500A2 at those ballistics are superior to the .505 Gibbs, both for bolt thrust issues and for that extra .005" bigger hole.

"If" I had a 500 Jeffery either the CZ 550 Magnum or Mauser 98 Magnum would be my choice.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Mac,
You have had some dealings with Dave "The Thong" Bush that were not pleasant?

Some people do have a way of taking things, and themselves, too seriously, especially when they are thong, er uh, wrong!

No direct dealings with Dave other than what's posted at AR and my observations thereof...I think he may have suffered some sort of self inflicted PTSD after a few visits to the ARPF and now it seems he's developed a previously latent 1/2 oz trigger syndrome ...

It's OK Dave ...RIP might could get y'all a referral for a "provider" in your area so you-ins can get things worked out...