Four Lapuas:


Four Lapuas Less Distorted:


.375 Lapua, 9.5x70 Tornado:


.423 Lapua, crude, not fireformed:


.458 Lapua:


Drawing thanks to boom stick and Steve. The Shoulder semi-angle should be 20 degrees however, total of 39.99 degrees for both sides.

.

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
Oy Geez Ron what am I missing here, reinventing the wheel are we? And at the price of 338 Lapua brass what expensive wheels!

Would we not simply be better off with a plain jane 416 Rigby and a 450 Rigby...... just asking or pissing in your corn flakes ( depending on how you feel this AM )

Alf,
Thank you.
Very reasonable.

You did say yourself, that the ideal all around scientific ballistic champ would be the .338 Lapua Magnum at 9.3mm, eh? Well how about a 9.5 mm like the .375? It duplicates the performance of Saeed's .375/.404 Lapua in an easier fashion for most of us.

No rebate as in the forsaken .375 RUM. Lower pressure and the same ballistics as a hot loaded .375 Wby, etc.

The .423 Lapua will allow even lower pressures or higher performance than the .404 Jeffery pictured beside it. Let's face it, the .404 Jeffery really ought to have a Magnum length action, and I know you agree with that!

They may only get 4 down in the magazine, instead of the sometimes 5 with the .404 Jeffery, but that is still a 5-shooter-rifle instead of a 6-shooter-rifle, and I don't consider that to be a fly in the ointment.

Lapua brass was bougth at about $1.40 per piece in lots of 100, by me in the past. Depends on the retailer. Demand is bound to increase the price, now that Dakota is venturing here and savy shooters will be rolling their own in the various calibers. Even if it is a little over $1.50/piece now, it is still the greatest brass bargain out there. Highest quality stuff that is lower cost than .450 Rigby and .416 Rigby that I have seen.

But brass cost is trivial, that is just a minor startup issue, and low pressure loads will last the brass a long time.

All of these are simply necked up .338 Lapua Magnum. No fire forming required for a functional load, but sharpening the shoulder with the fireforming makes them better.

I could go on, but ...

This is also a chance to show some pictures of bullet nose profiles and how they can be loaded long with the right throat so that the base of the bullet is not dangling in the powder space like it it is on the .416 Rigby and .450 Rigby. That is so silly!

You can see the Bridger Walterhog copy in the .375/300gr, a Bridger Brass FN solid .375/300gr, GSC .375/300gr HV and FN, North Fork SP soft, FP solid, and Cup Points, scattered through the .375, .423, and .458 loads. There is even an obsolete .458/450gr North Fork Ogive FP solid in the .458 Lapua, and a .458/500gr Barnes TSX in the .458 Lapua.

This is the startup of the DOA Ammo line for RIP Arms.

.

If DOA were to include a .475, it would require blowing the shoulder out to 0.577" diameter by decreasing the case body taper from the current Lapua/Rigby 20 thousandths per inch to 5 thousandths per inch.

Assuming 0.011" neck brass thickness in .475, that makes 0.475" + .022" = 0.497" for the total case neck diameter.

0.5770" (shoulder diameter) minus 0.4970" neck diameter = 0.080" difference = 0.040" step per side at the shoulder, and the shoulder could be sharpened to 35 degrees, or even the original Rigby 45 degrees.

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
Thank the Good Lord I do not live in the USA cause I would be in a permanent state of insolvency cause these babies are all must have's in my book !

You dont need to explain yourself one little bit it all makes perfect sense.

The reason I posted as I did was purely out of envy, pure unadulterated GREEN ENVY

Alf,
Thanks for playing the devil's advocate.
I record your endorsement for posterity.

those rounds look so yummy its like holloween candy alrerady. what is the crux point in nominal caliber weight does it become under-overbore in your opinion ( i could have just typed well balanced cartridge) is it the 416 @ 400gr.?

could you blow out the shoulder enough to accomodate the 475 and the 510? and could all the calibers be put on this new blown out shoulder? hmmmmmmm...things to consider. than you would not be charged with plagerism

with the 475 and 510 you could have the mbogo of a lapua

hope all here will support you

boomstick,
RIP Arms is unable to do the .510 on the Lapua case. There is just not enough shoulder left for even the meticulous processing of DOA Ammo, even with the precision chambers of RIP Arms.

We do not want to get away from the original .338 Lapua body taper, which is the same gentle beast as the original .416 Rigby body taper. We would also like to keep the 20 degree shoulder semi-angle. Lapua did all this for a reason, as it is a slick feeding and easy extracting design that would work well even in a machinegun, as that was forseen when this military round was designed.

All of this makes it the best of DGR cases too.

RIP Arms will forego the .475 and .510 bores until we have enough experience with the .408 CheyTac, to neck it up to .475 and .510.

We might consider necking the Lapua below .308 caliber, but for now it seems that .308 to .458 calibers will be the initial offering.

As to over-bore: Well, the makers of the .408 Chey-Tac say that the .375 Lapua is "under-bore," and they think the .505 Gibbs necked to .408 is "just right."

Of course the savy shooter/hunter will see that the DOA line of cartridges is perfectly balanced, and very efficient with modern powders and bullets available now.

Some drawings that I have seen for the 338 Lapua show a rim diameter of .579 not .588 but the same body diameter of .587 I've found written references to both the .579 and .588 rim.

Could this confusion come from the origin in the Rigby case and the change to the proprietary Lapua case?


Ammoguide has it listed as .579 here:
http://ammoguide.com/cgi-bin/ai.cgi?sn=pBMTExSpxe&catid=76

what will the stamp on the case say? 375 doa or 375 rip doa, 375 lapua rip-doa?

i realy like the new line of ammo using ultra premium bullets...will there be plinking rounds with not so expensive bullets for plinking?

these uber premium bullets will run about $5 a pop?

who will sell the loading dies and equipment?

hey, to whet the appetites of people here...can you post some of your figures and ballistics for your 375 and 458 lapua or should i say 375 and 458 rip

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
boomstick,
RIP Arms is unable to do the .510 on the Lapua case. There is just not enough shoulder left for even the meticulous processing of DOA Ammo, even with the precision chambers of RIP Arms.

We do not want to get away from the original .338 Lapua body taper, which is the same gentle beast as the original .416 Rigby body taper. We would also like to keep the 20 degree shoulder semi-angle. Lapua did all this for a reason, as it is a slick feeding and easy extracting design that would work well even in a machinegun, as that was forseen when this military round was designed.

All of this makes it the best of DGR cases too.

RIP Arms will forego the .475 and .510 bores until we have enough experience with the .408 CheyTac, to neck it up to .475 and .510.

We might consider necking the Lapua below .308 caliber, but for now it seems that .308 to .458 calibers will be the initial offering.

As to over-bore: Well, the makers of the .408 Chey-Tac say that the .375 Lapua is "under-bore," and they think the .505 Gibbs necked to .408 is "just right."

Of course the savy shooter/hunter will see that the DOA line of cartridges is perfectly balanced, and very efficient with modern powders and bullets available now.

its your baby and a good one at that

Those all look quite lovely. However, I must contest your confusing use of the term "semi-angle." Everyone else in the gun trade refers to the shoulder angle as that coming off the axis of the case... unless I'vemissed something all these years.
Also, isn't Saeed downloading his 375/404? That would suggest that the 404 case doesn't need more than a long action. And the 404 casehead is certainly a pretty measure smaller, for Remchesgers and the like.

Now, who was it telling me my short/fat Rigby case would be a bear to get to feed? Wonder at what taper it becomes less problematic. I may still have to try that one out (in 470!!)

Anyway, we can always use more 'cats, and I'd love to see demand for Lapua cases drive the cost down. Build them and they will come!

is the 458 rip the balistic twin of the 458 rigby with better brass and better feeding and extraction? a 404 feeding with a 458 bullet if you will?

p.s. you forgot the 416

quote:

Originally posted by Fjold:
Some drawings that I have seen for the 338 Lapua show a rim diameter of .579 not .588 but the same body diameter of .587 I've found written references to both the .579 and .588 rim.

Could this confusion come from the origin in the Rigby case and the change to the proprietary Lapua case?


Ammoguide has it listed as .579 here:
http://ammoguide.com/cgi-bin/ai.cgi?sn=pBMTExSpxe&catid=76

Fjold,
The 0.579" figure is dead wrong typo.
Some references will list it as 0.589", but Lapua has 0.588" and they ought to know.
It should be exactly the same as the .416 Rigby, and that rim is 0.001" bigger than the case head diameter just forward of the extractor groove.

There may be max and min dimensions accounting for the confusion between 0.589" versus 0.588" for the rim. One thing is for sure, it ain't rebated. The rim is one thou bigger than the case head max diameter and beautifully follows the case body taper thusly.

You will see variatins in old .416 Rigby rims, where the rearmost edge of the rim is square or barely rounded smooth so as not to be sharp, versus the newer .416 Rigby and Lapua cases that have a slight bevel on the rear edge of the rim.

If you actually measure the Norma and Lapua brass in .338 and .416, you will see that it is actually about 0.585" for both the rim and head, to be a sloppy easy fit in most rifles, or better on the small side than over-sized. Room to grow.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
what will the stamp on the case say? 375 doa or 375 rip doa, 375 lapua rip-doa?

i realy like the new line of ammo using ultra premium bullets...will there be plinking rounds with not so expensive bullets for plinking?

these uber premium bullets will run about $5 a pop?

who will sell the loading dies and equipment?

hey, to whet the appetites of people here...can you post some of your figures and ballistics for your 375 and 458 lapua or should i say 375 and 458 rip

Sorry, RIP Arms, Inc. does not have all the details worked out. Surely you understand, boom stick, as you instigated this only yesterday. I'll see that you get a 1% interest in the company, gratis, once we start selling stock.

For now you can make your own brass from that good Lapua stuff.

For cheap plinking just use the Hornady 350 grainers for the stubby loads suitable for barking squirrels, or maybe some 400 grain speer FNSP and load it down to .45-70 with RL-15 and filler. Cast lead and Unique for popping rabbits in the garden at close range.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana-be:
Those all look quite lovely. However, I must contest your confusing use of the term "semi-angle." Everyone else in the gun trade refers to the shoulder angle as that coming off the axis of the case... unless I'vemissed something all these years.
Also, isn't Saeed downloading his 375/404? That would suggest that the 404 case doesn't need more than a long action. And the 404 casehead is certainly a pretty measure smaller, for Remchesgers and the like.

Now, who was it telling me my short/fat Rigby case would be a bear to get to feed? Wonder at what taper it becomes less problematic. I may still have to try that one out (in 470!!)

Anyway, we can always use more 'cats, and I'd love to see demand for Lapua cases drive the cost down. Build them and they will come!

Bwana-be,
"Semi-angle" is a high-falutin term that I learned from Alf, and have also seen in European parlance. If you think about it, it is the more correct terminology, but if you don't like it, well just "angle" is fine when describing the shoulder, especially in the USA.

Actually Saeed is using the Rigby length Model 76 African action from Dakota. It comes with the Rigby length box and a bolt face that can be opened up for the various calibers from .416 Dakota to .450 Dakota, and that range includes the .375/.404 Saeed, of course.

The original Walterhog bullets have a long nose (like their designer) and the way Saeed seated them, the COL requires a Rigby length action.

Saeed's original ammo was .416 Dakota necked down and fireformed.

Jeffe was the one who said the Rigby was hard to get to feed, but I do believe he was talking about using a Mauser 98 standard action opened up.

I assure you that in a CZ 550 Magnum or Dakota African 76, etc., a true Magnum action, there will be zero problems.

Yes we can only hope that supply will keep up with demand and the Lapua brass price doesn't go up as everyone buys it up. If it becomes as common as .30-06 it still won't be as cheap, just because of the materials cost alone.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
is the 458 rip the balistic twin of the 458 rigby with better brass and better feeding and extraction? a 404 feeding with a 458 bullet if you will?

Correctomundo!
2500 fps with a 500 grainer in a 22" barrel is easy, and no pressure signs, but that brass is so tough it won't show signs, so I would just keep it down to 2400 fps with 500 grainers in 22" barrels. Think RL-15 and Varget. RIP Arms will have DOA equipped with pressure testing equipment before we start selling ammo. Until then, you are on your own with easy reloading at your own risk.

As for the .416 Lapua: yep, that will allow better bullet availability, and might supplant the .423 Lapua, but until then, there is always the .416 Rigby, Grandpa to the kittens.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
...Jeffe was the one who said the Rigby was hard to get to feed, but I do believe he was talking about using a Mauser 98 standard action opened up.

I assure you that in a CZ 550 Magnum or Dakota African 76, etc., a true Magnum action, there will be zero problems.

Rip
I perfectly agree, that in a cz550 or dakota 76 action, or a heavily worked enfield or a high dollar action will feed the rigby cases fine.. and hold them great.. even a ruger RSM (starting at 1k).... or less than 1% of actions sold


but a shortened RUM will fit in ANYTHING that fits the 300 winmag.. so, a $250 savage 7mag can do it.. just order a new mag box (15 bucks) from savage..

So, basically, the point is, the shortened rums will fit in most actions.. and feed from a staggered mag.

like weatherby found out, rigby size cases require rigby sized actions.. or single stacks ...

while I've gotten the 550 express to feed in a mauser, it's a single stack.

jeffe

Jeffe,
All true as you say.
It's just that the RUM brass is not as good as the .338 Lapua or .404 Jeffery stuff, and I would hate to see false economy in brass selection.

Saeed has already done the .450 Vincent short and long on the .404 Jeffery case. There is your AR line of cartridges starter, to include the .375/.404 AR Short and Long (Saeed's version).

... Unless you want to use the RIP/DOA line and utilize the dime-a-dozen Magnum actions on the market today.

Hey Bro Rip,

Against all my efforts to the contrary, the clinic is getting kinda busy. I will ship the pressure gun and six sets of tranducers to you along with the software and a spare chronograph if you want to use them. Oh yeah, there is a barrel clamp and action wrench.
I think the DOA name is perfect. We can put Walter's picture on the ammo boxes. I have already done the spade work on packaging.
I also have a spare CZ in 416 Rigby if you need to use it as a test mule.

I did some work with a 338 Lapua earlier this summer. That brass is tougher than Hilary Clinton's tits. The 404 Norma stuff is easy to work, and work with. I will try some RWS next year.

Dave Kiff can knock out reamers for chambers and dies in about a month lately. I have a 338 Lapua and a 404 reamer laying around the house (375 WBY, 375 H&H and 416 Rem Mag as well).

What I really know about guns and ballistics would probably not even fill a hummingbird's beak, but I am leery of RUM brass and rebated bolt faces.

lawndart

quote:

tougher than Hilary Clinton's tits

wow! that was a good laugh

PS We'll have to do the 9.3 off of the 404 case, just like my great grand uncle twice removed fat Herman (9.3 x 70 Expert Magnum). Other than shooting drugs, genocide and wearing those fruity white uniforms I hear he was a pretty fun guy. My part of the family split for the US in the 1870s. His part went down south to Bavaria and really just went to shit. All that singing and beer swilling. Oops, sorry, off topic.

lawndart

jeffeosso you and rip are preaching to two different choires...a humble and plentiful gospel choir and a full choir singing carmina burana ( that rocks! especially verrrrry loud) just diferent both are awesome! i'll say it again AWESOME! they both have the briliance that comes from a mad balistician gunsmith. two markets so neither will do any toe stepping i will be glad and others to see them out there in the next few months. congratulations for having the cahones to take it on

rip...how about this...

rip arms...dead on accurate,
dead on arrival.

quote:

I'll see that you get a 1% interest in the company

i am honored

i'll gladly accept

quote:

Originally posted by lawndart:

What I really know about guns and ballistics would probably not even fill a hummingbird's beak, but I am leery of RUM brass and rebated bolt faces.

lawndart

Bro'dart,
Double ditto that for me too.
Your kind offer is greatly appreciated, but I am too busy right now to take you up on it. Thanks.

I did offer the DOA logo to you at one time, for your ammo loading and pressure testing operations ... ... but that went over like a lead balloon in the punch bowl, or a lawndart in a Blue Angels formation (Missing Man?), so I have taken it back for my own use!

Thanks for the idea, Walter does resemble Jerry Garcia, so it would be a natural tie in to the DOA logo, grateful dead critters, etc.

I used a Dave Kiff .338 Lapua reamer with floating pilots in .375 and .458 for the .375 Lapua and the .458 Lapua, and will do the same for the .423 Lapua with a pilot and special neck and throat reamer by the other Dave (Manson).

Once we get into full swing, RIP Arms will have to have purpose made reamers for each caliber. I'll see which Dave will get the bidness. Either will do.

Yep, love that Norma .404 Jeffery brass too.

I never did like the spikes in your Uncle Hermann's rifle stock forearm. He used to jab those into the side of a tree to take a rest when he was hunting with his 9.3 x 70 mm Magnum. Kind of whacky!

Now I must set nose to grindstone ...

the rip doa trademark is a marketers dream

Rip,

Once I sell the clinic I'll do the ammo for you.
You too jeffe.

You can sell the "Fat Herman" line of cases loaded with "Walterhog" bullets.

I love medicine, but if I don't take a long sabbatical soon, I will fall over dead in the clinic after twenty years of seeing patients six days a week.

lawndart

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
what will the stamp on the case say? 375 doa or 375 rip doa, 375 lapua rip-doa?

i realy like the new line of ammo using ultra premium bullets...will there be plinking rounds with not so expensive bullets for plinking?

these uber premium bullets will run about $5 a pop?

who will sell the loading dies and equipment?

hey, to whet the appetites of people here...can you post some of your figures and ballistics for your 375 and 458 lapua or should i say 375 and 458 rip

Sorry, RIP Arms, Inc. does not have all the details worked out. Surely you understand, boom stick, as you instigated this only yesterday. I'll see that you get a 1% interest in the company, gratis, once we start selling stock.

For now you can make your own brass from that good Lapua stuff.

For cheap plinking just use the Hornady 350 grainers for the stubby loads suitable for barking squirrels, or maybe some 400 grain speer FNSP and load it down to .45-70 with RL-15 and filler. Cast lead and Unique for popping rabbits in the garden at close range.

so rabbits to elephants with the 458 rip/doa...love it

any new updates to report?

need any assistance?

should i draw up some preliminary sketches of your new logo?

RIP,

Thank you for your continuing research of 338 Lapua wildcats. I really like the 338 Lapua cartridge and the Lapua brass (not the Norma stuff, it's good but not great) is the best I have used. A 458 Lapua would be very nice!

John