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Russel, The more slowly a 416 MK is fired, the more penetration it gives....no, wait a minute...hmmm that would be the 45-70 necked to 416....SORRY, my mistake! Good hunting, Andy ----------------------------- Thomas Jefferson: “To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.” | |||
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Ohh, this is the thread that just keeps on giving...thanks jeffe. I needed a pick-me-up. I haven't ever thought of that, but you are right....I've never, ever seen any factory loaded 404 ammo in Canada, other than collector stuff at Gun Shows. [Note - I just checked the mail order catalogues for the two biggest wholesale distributors of sporting goods in Canada...neither of them carry ammo for the 9.3x62, 404 Jeffrey, or even the 458 Lott....they might as well be wildcats in this country!] I am curious if you'd have a chance of finding 404 Jeffrey ammo in Africa if your handloads went missing with your luggage? I am asking this seriously....is it common in sporting goods stores in Africa??? Cheers, Canuck | |||
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416 taylor, in a blr, loaded with matchkings!!! jeffe opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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You have to turn the MK's around backwards in the case if you are using them in a lever rifle! Good hunting, Andy ----------------------------- Thomas Jefferson: “To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.” | |||
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Backwards is probably the only use for Sierra bullets. Jeffe, Hmmm....a Taylor for 250 bucks. I'll send an action and a check, you send me back a working Taylor? ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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I just made (so to speak) a drop belly floorplate for the Taylor, so it will hold four down. A plastic version that could be used by a machinist to make a steel version. Any suggestions for such a person? I'd throw in a box of MK bullets. ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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I may get a 416Taylor built onto a ZG47 because I want 10.75 ballistics without the crap involved in finding reamers, importing brass, custom dies etc... If the 404J made its reputation at a lazy 2100fps and low pressures, what's wrong with a 416Taylor at the same level? Likewise if the 458WM is an African dud because of high pressures to achieve 2100fps with the 500gr, then why are we asking the 10.75 to match modern 404J ballistics and then calling it an African star? Back to the original topic, 416Taylor or 416Rem, on a magnum length action I vote 416Rem. Cheers... Con | |||
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Bwana-be I agree with you on the throat being cut to long. The rep at montana rifle co said I should still be able to get under Moa with it.( the rep who sold it to me promised 1/2 moa but is no longer there) Their reamers are min sami spec. After my next trip to the range I will know if he is full of BS or not. I found a 14" twist In #5 tapor by Shilen for $154.00.My smith should have it done and on the way back at the end of next week.I will let you know how it turns out. J D DRSS 9.3X74 tika 512 9.3X74 SXS Merkel 140 in 470 Nitro | |||
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http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=156254 109 for the barrel send the right action (that requires headspacing and bluing) to a smith and it should be that... we'd send it back with black oxide... jeffe opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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I will also take a Taylor at #250, then I will run a 416 Rem in it and lengthen the existing box and have a $350 416 Remington....that hold the same number of rounds as the Taylor I might add... So Canooke what say you about that...all this cockamamie excuses you have come up with along with a mirage of misquotes and what ifs... BTW, I would never recommend a 10.75x68 to anyone, never have, all I have done is state that I like it to play with..Hope thats Ok, same for the 416 Taylor, just don't try and justify it.... Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Cunnuck, Will et al, I WILL DEFEND WITH MY VERY LIFE YOUR RIGHT TO YOUR OPINNION!!!!!!!!!! thats the cowboy way you see! Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I've moved on to the 404 J now. Canuck | |||
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Ignorance abounds about covers it. Regarding the belt and it's supposed anti-extraction predilection, the 300 H&H, arguably THE most easy feeding/extracting cartridge extant HAS A BELT. Second, the 300 Wetherby came BEFORE the 300 Win Mag, only the H&H is older and the Weatherby DID start the decline of the H&H, and the 300 Winnie ( another belted cartridge) outsells them ALL combined. NOw back to the topic at hand, if you hunt africa with a wildcat, you ought to have your head examined. jorge USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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Boy, you try to help somebody and all you get is snipers. At least if these posts are going to be irrelevant and boring, they could at least be entertaining. How did we ever go hunting before AR? ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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jorge, to be strictly accurate, I think that the arguement you guys are really trying to make is..."if you hunt in Africa with a cartridge without a matching headstamp, or with a cartridge for which ammo can't be readily supplied in Africa (or replaced by an alternate cartridge which can be fired in the same rifle), you should have your head examined.". The point I (and jeffe) have been making is that all wildcats are not equal. Wildcats that have headstamped brass available are absolutely no different, practically speaking, than "obscure" factory loadings that are not available off the shelf in Africa. AND, one should not poo-poo said wildcat on one hand, and advocate an "obscure" factory chambering on the other (a classic non-sequitur). For the record, and in case I have inadvertantly offended anyone, my involvement in this has been all in fun. I have made my point, and shall not belabor it. Cheers, Canuck | |||
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When was it decided that all this ammo gets lost? Never lost any and never heard of any being lost. Maybe a day or two late, but not lost. ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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Being a died-in-the-wool redneck from the backwoods of Canada, I feel just the same, Ray. I would defend with my very life your right to your opinion, no matter how wrong you are. Cheers, Canuck | |||
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I for one can not see the differants to some cailbers like the dakotas or when the weatherbys cals were first out or the A squares ect. Then some of the popular wildcats Sure they had someone making ammo for them but are they or were they readly availble in out of the way hunting places. So shoot what you want take what you want and enjoy yourself. | |||
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Canuck: Point well taken so I'll modify my statement to include obscure calibers jorge USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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the point I was making had nothing to do with ammo. I thad to do with ballistics and rifle weight. It is no different that sticking a .308 in a M98 action istead of a .30-06. The rifles will weigh the same. They will be just as "trim." THe .308 will have less power. It will in no way be superior to, and in some ways will be inferior to the .30-06. Had this comaprison been made, then I doubt if folks would have gotten their collective panties in a wad. The Whitworth is already set up to take the .416 Remington. It will cost exactly nothing extra to go to the Rem over the Taylor. And the Taylor oculd actually take more work given the fact that the mag is Rem. length already. | |||
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dyed-in-the-wool ADJECTIVE: Thoroughgoing; out-and-out. | |||
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500, that far north rednecks literally die "in the wool".. Besides, who wants to say "died in the Gortex"? "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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Cunnuckie, is died in the wool, meaning brain dead in this instance! Sorry I couldn't let that one pass! Will, I thouht I was being entertaining, do I need to try harder, or do you expect me to take all this stuff seriously..I'll try harder to be funny for you next time, sorry Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Ray, You know and I know that most of this stuff is hooey. We just need to remind ourselves of that sometimes, and not take it too seriously. ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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I guess Warren Page, Elmer Keith, John Buhmiller, Charles Askins and many others who have toted wildcats to Africa were too inexperienced and total idiots. How they managed to survive is a miracle... | |||
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Just about any good Wire EDM machine shop should be able to this - EDM is not cheap but it beautiful when run correctly | |||
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Not to disparage any one individual. As I read some of the above posts by the purists, “expertsâ€, and dare I say “elitists†who speak in fake English accents. I realize that I will never be a true “hunter†no matter how many animals I slay for the following reasons: 1. I do not hunt with a .404 Jeffery DGR, or a hand built $10,000 work of art with African pedigree and papers to match; stocked in Bastone Walnut with a 20 coat hand-rubbed oil finish. Instead more often than not I hunt with simple rifles like my Mark X based .416 Taylor with Peep sights and a 22in. barrel, it is compact and I am not afraid to ding it up. 2. I do not hunt with a pre 64 Winchester model 70, or a Mauser with an original Obendorf action. I choose to use as my field guns, weapons based on pitiful CZ 550 and Mark X actions. How they feed; and don’t blow up each time I pull the trigger only the gods know. 3. I don’t use hand-turned Naval Bronze Premium bullets that cost $1.88 apiece. Instead, I use cheap Speer 350gr.and Barnes 300, 350 and 400gr. bullets. Hardly up to the standards of the magical killing .404 Jeffery loaded with a 400gr. Solid at a magical killing velocity of 2,150 ft/sec. (BTW. My Taylor will only push a 400 gr. bullet at 2,315 ft/sec from its 22 in barrel). 4. I don’t own a Ziess, Kahales, Schmidt and Bender, or even a Leopold scope. I use a Redfield; or more often than not, a Williams’s peep sight on my Taylor. 5. I don’t wear Safari clothing when I hunt! In fact I don’t even own a pair of Buffalo hide boots, or shooting sticks. Shockingly, I confess to not owning a Pith hat or a broad brimmed bush hat. I tend to dress comfortably for the season, terrain, and climate. However, I have been blessed to have hunted, lo these many years, game animals far dumber, and less resilient than those hunted by some members of the board. Only this could explain my success in hunting over the years, and the animals’ willingness to die in front of my front sights. This however does not change the fact that as I stand in your collective shadows; I am left chanting “I’m not worthy†while I bow to your presence. | |||
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Hansel, I see you have taken Will's advice to heart. Me too. I dig the Yugoslav Mark X's, CZ's, and, I hesitate to say ... (whisper) My .416 Taylor is a Ruger ... (end whisper). | |||
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Great post Hansel. Too often I see the so called "experts" speaking about adding an animal to their collection and so little about hunting and the experience of that itself. You don't have to shoot a Biesen or Echols showpiece to enhance the thrill of the hunt. If the sense of anticipation and the thrill of the hunt is not there, you should not be hunting. | |||
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YOU 416ER'S SURE ARE A QUARRELSOME LOTT. bUILD A 425 eXPRESS AND DEFY THEM ALL. I tend to use more than enough gun | |||
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To each his own, as caliber choice seems to be a very personal thing, with subtle differences being very important to some of us. | |||
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I used the Canadian spelling...yah, that's it... That's what I get for typing to fast! Thanks for the free correction 500grains. I usually have to pay to get a lawyer to check my spelling/grammar. Cheers, Canuck | |||
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I just want you to get used to the stricter rules that will be applied once the States take you guys over. | |||
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SAmBubba, Unfortunatly all those gun scribes you mentioned had very little African experience..Charlie shot a lot of plainsgame for several years running and Elmer shot a few elephants...There are seveal folks on this board that have hunted a good deal more than your chosen experts, self included...You need to start reading Man Magnum, Hartari times, thats where the real African gun scribes hang out, and a few of them like Ganyana post regularly here on AR, along with a number of PHs! Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Good grief! You guys are like Congress farting around with social security. Clean up the 375 H&H chamber with a 375 RUM reamer for $75 and go hunting. The 416 Taylor is a fine round...the 416 Rem is better and the 375 RUM is BEST in this situation from a cost and flexibility perspective. A 350 grain Woodleigh in a 375 RUM at 2700 fps vs a 400 gr anyting in the 416s is a toss up vs DG. For ALLother applications the RUM is better, so what's the issue? | |||
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Actually there are quite a few people who think 2700 fps is too fast for DG, and that better results are to be had between 2100 fps and 2400 fps. And there are people who believe that a larger cross sectional area is better, so in their eyes a .416 will always be better than a .375. | |||
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Ray, my point was they used wildcat cartridges and did not have any trouble. This was not meant to be a pissing match.
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Hi Guys, No one has mentioned that the Taylor came along before the Remington, when the Rigby ammo was hard to get. It was one mans idear of an easy to put together wild cat in a short action, in a proven calibre. That seems ok to me, BUT, I would not buy one. | |||
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You make a good point and I agree up to a point. However, my feeling is that once you get to a sectional density that exceeds .350 or so and use a good tough bullet, the extra 300 fps and 11% increase in diameter are not a big factor...at least not enough to spend a lot of extra money! | |||
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