I have a Interarms X in 375, I am thinking of a .416, With the long action I would be able to seat the bullet out close to the lands with 416 Taylor. Do I want a 12" or a 14" twist.
Jd

Why on earth would you put a Taylor in a long action already set up to feed full-length H&H cases?
It might be a bit more unique than a 416 Rem, but it won't have anything on it.

Plus, you can get factory ammo for the Rem. I have a Mark X that was converted from .375 H&H to .416 Rem by the previous owner. Pretty easy operation. It's my favorite rifle hands down.

You won't need the short case just to get the bullets to the lands. The throat is short enough anyway. I just finished a 416 Rem on a Whitworth and am glad now that i didn't go the Taylor route.

depends on several things

1: expected ballastics (match the 416 rigby or the 404 jeffery?
2: what barrel length (<23, or >23?)
3: factory ammo (this is a croc, as you can but 416 taylor ammo too) (pay 100 bucks a box, or totally roll your own)
4: consider swapping the gun for a 416 based (416 rigby, 416 rem, 416 taylor)

with the exception of the last question, if your answer is on the left choice, it's 416 rem, if it's right, it CAN be a taylor.

I like the taylor alot, neat round..I've built a couple of these. I've had a 416 rem, which in a standard length action, is ALOT of work compared to the taylor (or 404 for that matter)

Since your's is already a 375 length, and if you are dead set on a 416, the remington is really your only choice

however, you should consider the 458 lott, for all the same reasons as a 416 rem, and that brass is cheap, and bullets are DIRT cheap

jeffe

If I could have fround a cheap stainless mag action I would have built a 416 rem. But the stainless action I used I went with the taylor.

I just don't see the point of the Taylor other than to save rifle weight. If a converted 375 Whitworth to 416 Taylor winds up at 9 or 10 pounds, why bother when a 416 Rem would be easier to do and gets better ballistics?

I personaly can't see the sense of giving up a .375 to go to .416 but I would go the taylor over the .416 (johnny come lately) rem any day of the week but then I'm a purest. I think it comes down to avalibility of components at the end of the day

Jeffe, I PM'd you.

Will,
interesting point... same thing applies to the 300 win vs the 300 HH and the weatherby.... or 308 and 30-06..

with the exception that one can take any of the (classic) shortmags, screw in a barrel, and have a 416. if it matches the 416 rigby is a question of reloading and barrel length.

that it matches the 404 and just about ANY gunsmith can do it with cutting up a mauser action is without question...

that is circumvents buying or building a custom (read 350+ dollars) is also without question.

loaded to the same pressure, the taylor and remington, are 2300 and 2400 fps... and both beat the 450/400.

besides, 458 winmag brass is cheap and a SUPER easy one pass in a die to have brass.

jeffe

I don't see any point to the .416 Taylor at all. The shorter bolt-throw/short action atttribute is a misplaced priority.

The .416 Taylor is not as good a cartridge as the .416 Remington, and it's not available anywhere -- only at your loading bench back home -- and try finding ammo for same would be a futile exercise on the other side of the world.

But the .416 Remington is a solidly established cartridge that'll do all that the .416 Taylor will do, plus more. Plus, ammo for same is AVAILABLE and properly headstamped.

Quite honestly, most wildcats are an exercise in mental gymnatstics and a general waste of time........

AD

The Taylor makes sense when there are action constraints. But since you aren't using an action at standard length, it's already setup for mag length then I wouldn't do it. But why not the Rigby, is it longer than the 375?

If I had a standard length action I would go with a Taylor, but a mag action I would go with the Rigby. In my world there is no place for the Rem. I guess

As far as barrel twist, the Rigby barrels in 416 originally were closer to 1:17 so if you went with 1:16 you would be good. But most companies now are going 1:14. The Taylor I'm having built now is 1:16.

Red

Spot on Allen...add to that the changing times in Africa, wherein the wildcat may fast becoming a thing of the past and the need for properly stamped cases is in the future..

I shot a Taylor until the 416 came about, and I changed immediately, a decision I have never regretted...

The Taylor has no place these days in the scheme of things, the day of the wildcatter has come and gone, now its fun and games for boys and toys...

Not surprisingly Allen and I have a different opinion of the Taylor!

The only reason I made myself a Taylor was to make a lightweight rifle. A good start at that was a standard length action. Bolt throw I agree is an imaginary problem but that was of no consideration. Regardless of what Boddington says most entry custom agents wouldn't know a Taylor case from a time bomb, so head stamps are also irrelevant. Besides I always take two rifles, one of a different caliber (usually a 416 Rem.!), so the issue is further irrelevant to me.

I'm not trying to talk anyone into one 416 variation or the other. If one is trying to trim rifle weight, the Taylor has its place.

I know I can count on you guys to give me good info. I am building a 416 Rem. I have a 375 H&H in a Montana action that is a 1/2" out of the lands no matter what I load. That is why I was giving the Taylor some thought. I am converting the Mark X due to the fact that you are not allowed to carry two rifles of the same cal. (New Reg) Thanks alot.
JD

Ray is trying to pull a Terri Schaivo on the 416 Taylor. If he can find a judge to rule that the Taylor has no reason for being, serves no useful purpose to the public, and is unconstitutional we can get it outlawed!

Ray as said it all about the taylor no factory ammo non standard ect. Then he goes an gets a 10 something another. That has no factory ammo is harder to get brass for ect.

Rays kinda like a old women what ever he has at the momemnt is better that what he had before. He just likes playing with guns.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
Ray as said it all about the taylor no factory ammo non standard ect. Then he goes an gets a 10 something another. That has no factory ammo is harder to get brass for ect.

Rays kinda like a old women what ever he has at the momemnt is better that what he had before. He just likes playing with guns.

ah.. hmmm.. well.. NO

factory.. asquare and superior ammo.. headstamped...

factory...
quality cartridge...

factory... several other boutique stores...

in fact, there are as many or MORE labels for taylor than oh say, 500 nitro, 470 nitro, 458 lott, etc etc etc...


is it on a shelf in africa?

was 458 lott before it became THE gun for ph's?

brass?
LMFAO
there's 3 sources for 416 taylor, headstamped, and endless 458 win to make it from for "home" use.


gimme a break guys

just how many walmarts carry 404 jeffery? sources for brass?

LMFAO


jeffe

The Taylor offers no advantage here in either the catagory of bolt throw or action/rifle weight. THe Whitworth is a regualr Mauser opened up for a .375 length cartridge. The Taylor would gain you nothing in terms of weight, action size, "trimness" whatever. All you would get with the Taylor is a cartridge that was laess powerful. And some folks here like to say the .416 Rem is loaded too hot-my god, what would you have to do to a Taylor to get it to equal velocities? The Taylor's time passed when the Hoffman became a factory round.

Will,

When you are in ZIM, please leave some .416 Taylor ammo at the gun store just in case the airline loses someone's ammo suitcase...

quote:

Ray as said it all about the taylor no factory ammo non standard ect. Then he goes an gets a 10 something another. That has no factory ammo is harder to get brass for ect.

Nuthin like consistency, eh pdogshooter?

quote:

ah.. hmmm.. well.. NO

factory.. asquare and superior ammo.. headstamped...

factory...
quality cartridge...

factory... several other boutique stores...

in fact, there are as many or MORE labels for taylor than oh say, 500 nitro, 470 nitro, 458 lott, etc etc etc...


is it on a shelf in africa?

was 458 lott before it became THE gun for ph's?

brass?
LMFAO
there's 3 sources for 416 taylor, headstamped, and endless 458 win to make it from for "home" use.


gimme a break guys

just how many walmarts carry 404 jeffery? sources for brass?

LMFAO


jeffe

You tell 'em jeffe!

This thread is just slaying me.

Cheers,
Canuck

Marc,
Please go back and read my first post, in entirety, on this thread. In this case, i supported this guy building either a rem or a lott... as the taylor is the WRONG cartridge for an HH length action

then then taylor bashing began.

EVERYTHING you say in the below post is EXACTLY the same, with the 458 win and 458 lott....

"time has passed" now, that's too f'ing funny... you would think once the 300 weatherby came out it would stop all sales on the 300 winmag, the 300 hh, and 300 ackley...


Hey, didn't we just get a handful of new 30 caliber magnums (300 Rum, 300 WSM, 30-378, 30/376steyr) that basically perform at EXACTLY the same level as a 300 weatherby?


It's about choices, plain and simple, otherwise there'd be no pickup trucks on the road today expect the dodge

quote:

Originally posted by Marc_Stokeld:
The Taylor offers no advantage here in either the catagory of bolt throw or action/rifle weight. THe Whitworth is a regualr Mauser opened up for a .375 length cartridge. The Taylor would gain you nothing in terms of weight, action size, "trimness" whatever. All you would get with the Taylor is a cartridge that was laess powerful. And some folks here like to say the .416 Rem is loaded too hot-my god, what would you have to do to a Taylor to get it to equal velocities? The Taylor's time passed when the Hoffman became a factory round.

Jeff those are rays comments about the taylor not mine I am vey happy with my 416 taylor works well.

Why not go with a Dakota round and eliminate the belt on the H&H based cases?

And just what the hell is wrong with a belt?

Much smoother feeding without the belt.

I was just trying to get another endless argument going. I guess I should know better but...
In a properly designed gun there is absolutely no merit to the belief that beltless cartidges feed more smoothly. That is only the result of lazy gunmakers that try to shortcut the production of receivers.

Okay, I made a big mistake making a Taylor. I'll repent.

416 Taylor: Bite me!

Ignorance abounds..you poor misinformed bubbas, the 10.75x68 has loaded ammo available from Superior and A square, and brass can be had from Huntingtons ala Horneber, Bertram, bullets are .423 same as the .404..It is not a wildcat..and yes I do likt to play with calibers but they must have a proper headstamp so that I can take them with me to foriegn counties....thus anytime you have a wildcat that is duplicated by a factory round your living in a world of ig...

Will,
Well , the 416 Remington can be built on the same action as a 416 Taylor...Mine is on a FN 06 action, opened up...So tell me all you that have squander your hard erned funds on a lemon, exactly what does the Taylor in any form have to offer?? I would like to hear some legitamate reasoning, not something to protect your pride and the fact you invested in a white elephant

Ray,
i said what it is... what it does.. lets lay it out in dollars then

take a vz24
100 bucks
take a barrel (cost doesn't matter, if it is the same in both but we'll call it)
200

take sights
200

stock (lower end nice stock)
300

that's about
800 for a taylor

take that to a 416 rem or 404
ADD a custom drop box
400 bucks

that's 150% more DOLLARS for 100 fps....

4 bucks a FOOT....

then again, Ray, if a 404 with a 400 at 2300 is good enough, then what's wrong with the 416 taylor a 400 at 2300 (which is a reasonable, even lowside, load)

yes, if you have a long enough action already done, the 416 rem is the way to go.

if you have a 7 remmag, it's just a rebarrel to get a taylor.


of course, you know, the 300 weatherby should have stopped anyone from ever wanting another 30 caliber... and the 300 rum and 300 wsm were the best selling center fire bolt guns for YEARS

jeffe

quote:

Ignorance abounds..you poor misinformed bubbas, the 10.75x68 has loaded ammo available from Superior and A square, and brass can be had from Huntingtons ala Horneber, Bertram, bullets are .423 same as the .404..It is not a wildcat..and yes I do likt to play with calibers but they must have a proper headstamp so that I can take them with me to foriegn counties....thus anytime you have a wildcat that is duplicated by a factory round your living in a world of ig...

hehehehehe

Sorry that I find this humorous! No offence, Ray...its just that practically everything you just said about the 10.75x68 is also true about the 416 Taylor.

There are plenty of legit arguments against the 416 Taylor, but those particular ones only count if you are comparing it to a very popular factory round (eg. 416 Rem, 458 Win Mag, etc).

I was really just giggling about how inconsistent some people are...and I'm not picking on just you. I've noticed that the same people that denigrate the 416 Taylor as a wildcat with no purpose also pack obscure cartridges to Africa. (585 Nyati, 470 Capstick, just about any NE, etc, etc). There is no practical difference between a wildcat and an obscure cartridge. You can get headstamped brass for almost any wildcat these days, and you're just as unlikely to find any cartridges in Africa!

If you guys used the "wildcat" arguement consistently and logically, no one should ever pack any rifle to Africa other than the really common ones (30/06, 300 Win Mag, 375 H&H and 458 Win Mag. etc, etc)

WRT to the big picture here, I'm not differing in opinion...in this guys case (starting with a mag length action) I think he is better off with a 416 Rem Mag too.

Still gigglin...


Canuck

why,
lookie here...

i'll be DARNed..

416 taylor headstamped brass and loaded ammo..

right there on midwayusa


http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=181842
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=510076

sorry guys, headstamped brass or factory ammo just aint an issue, 99.99999% of the guns life.. i own SEVERAL guns that have never even SEEN a factory load for, much less fired any... and I doubt any 404 owners (which is funny, 404 is a techincal code for "not found") have either

jeffe

Man we're a funny bunch

I can see no reason is chambering a 416 Taylor in an action that can fit a 416 rem mag, there is simply no benefit.

I can see the 416 Taylor as a legitimate and useful chambering, specifically in actions that can't fit the longer Rem Mag.

The Taylor is not nearly as bad as it's boisterous detractors claim, nor is the 416 Rem the perfect or world standard 416.

It's your gun, pick the chamber that tickles your fancy.

quote:

Originally posted by J D:
I have a Interarms X in 375, I am thinking of a .416, With the long action I would be able to seat the bullet out close to the lands with 416 Taylor. Do I want a 12" or a 14" twist.
Jd

With the long action I'd go .416 Rem Mag.

One in 12" twist for either cartridge with tough softs or solids.

BigRx

Back to the original post a bit:
JD, you say your H&H is 1/2" off the lands. I want to explain that that has nothing to do with the round, caliber, case or action. It is your barrel. The chamber was reamed with a throat that reaches to far into the barrel. If MR did that barrel fitting, I'd send it back to them.
If you properly fit an H&H-chambered barrel on that action you will not have a problem reaching the lands. If it wasn't their fault (or someone else who'll stand behind it) then I suggest you consider the 375 Wby rechamber, or even just have the barrel turned down and rechambered.
If you have the razbutniks, get it to hold a 3.75" 375 Wby and you'll have quite a beast.
Cheers!

For a whole bunch of reasons you probably can't appreciate now, I'd do the .416 Remington Magnum. At this point, whatever you decide will be an act of faith, which is tough -- you don't know any of us -- but I'm just telling you, I'd recommend the .416 Remington Magnum. A 1:12"-twist is fine, but I've got a 1:10" and have no complaints. Mine is a damn accurate rifle.

Russ

Hey Ray,

HAs the snow melted up there yet? I think spring is almost here.

When I decided I wanted a flyweight rifle, the white-trash thing to do was get a cheap rifle, have it re-barreled, and bingo a 416 Taylor!

Let's see: Rifle $400, barrel & chamber $400, blue $250, sights $100, stock $350....jeese, already up to $1,500. What happened to cheap????

Now could have opened it up to accommodate the Rem. and a new box, a new follower, etc. I wonder how much that would have cost?

The Taylor is close enough for the 50 fps I lose compared to the Rem.

And now I have a little baby 22"-barrel rifle at 7 1/2 lbs, that is going to be a lot easier to carry when running for my life.

Piss on the Rem.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Let's see: Rifle $400, barrel & chamber $400, blue $250, sights $100, stock $350....jeese, already up to $1,500. What happened to cheap????

or,
you got a 7 rem mag rifle...
a 100$ ab barrel
a 150-200 headspace and blue

250 bucks, you got a 416 taylor.

and are ready to go to africa with your your grandpaw's pre64 winchester

jeffe

IF we could get Sierra to make them, then the Matchkings would definitely give the edge to the Taylor.......I don't have a dog in this fight...just stirring the pot.

quote:

Originally posted by ACRecurve:
IF we could get Sierra to make them, then the Matchkings would definitely give the edge to the Taylor.......I don't have a dog in this fight...just stirring the pot.

Would a "big" .416-caliber Match King override the "not for hunting" Sierra-issued guidance?

Russ