i have a 45-70 guide gun (my only rifle, i know to most here that would be blasphamy but i am just building up my colection, forgive me)and was thinking of getting another .458 cal for hunting big stuff...my choice of these two is based on reloading and that i would already own another .458 cal rifle also there is a huge variety of bullets in this cal and cheap which most of you know. i know the lott can be loaded from mild to wild 300gr x @2700 fps to 600gr barnes o @ 2100 fps. i know the rigby can do better on the heavier end but i dont know about lighter bullets in the rigby. i figure the lott can be loaded from 300 h+h power all the way up to all you would ever need. i have never shot the lott or the rigby so i am asking all you your two cents on the subject.

thanks

I think the Lott is more versatile for the lighter loads. The Rigby case is mighty big for cast bullets and 300/350 grainers.

easy...........get both, I have a Rigby and it wont be to long before I have a lott, not that I need one.......but its only money.

both would be awesome but i am not a man of means by any means...any rifle for me is a big investment, thus my unirifle...also i have a wife who would rather buy shoes and clothes so its a tug-o-war...

450 Rigby is magic. The best 458 IMO.
The Lott is practical. And boring.

Boring is not so bad. A buffalo won't know the difference.

I have a .458 lott and may in hind site have opted for the .450 Rigby, the lott seemed easier at the time. I still love my lott though

have any of you tried lighter bullets???

You need to talk to Oldsarge about the .450 Rigby. I think he worked up to full loads by lighter charges rather than lighter bullets. His rifle is for sale last I heard. More info here.

ah, guys...

here's a funny, though someone will argue with me...

the LOTT is the FAR older round...

LMAO

the 450 rigby was invented in 1995!!!!
1 9 9 5

it's a beltless 460 weatherby....

the 450 rigby nitro express is NOT the same round, as that's a propietary version of a 450 nitro....

it's a "development" of the 416 rigy (early twentith centry itself) and was brought to "standard" in 1 9 9 5.. all my kids, my car, and 3 or 4 of my pets are older!!!

i beieve even the 416 dakota is elder!!


too funny!!!

Get the lott, if you are worried about price... they have the same nominal balistics (500 at 2300) but the lott brass is about 40 cents each, rather than 2 bucks, the dies are 40 bucks, rather than 190, and it burn about 2/3 of the powder....

and the lott an be had for 750, while the rigby starts at 1500

jeffe

Jeffeoso,

We're all aware that the 450 Rigby was introduced in 1995. That doesn't make the Lott any less boring.

boom stick

450 Rigby rimless, does everything the 458 lott can plus a bit more with lower pressure W

With 500-600 grain bullets 450 rigby is the best

Cheers
/ JOHAN

quote:

Johan: With 500-600 grain bullets 450 rigby is the best

Correct. If you're mainly interested in very powerful full-house loads like factory 460s, go with the Rigby. But if you like shooting more moderate (but still heavy) loads like I do, the Lott will do it more efficiently and cheaply.

Plus's of the Lott are cheap and available brass, ditto for dies, more easily found and less exspensive factory ammo, more rounds in the mag, and you can use 458 win mag ammo in a pinch. While I can see advantages in a larger case, I don't personally think the 458 Lott is lacking for any hunting use.

The advantage of the 450 Rigby is a larger case, and a more exclusive rifle.

Personally I'd go with a 500 A-sq if building a rifle using the large CZ action. It is definately more gun than a 458 Lott. I went the 500 Jeffrey route but in hindsight the A-sq is more practical.

o.k....

it seems the lott is winning the cheap race...

thanks to charles and ol sarge i have learned you can convert a 450 brno into the rigby though i dont know how much one if those costs...i like the low preasure thing, how does the 450 dakota compare preasure wise???

if i was going to build a cheap good non fancy stainless version of the lott or rigby, how would i do it??? i am sure the lott will be cheaper...i dont think that it is about the exoticness of the caliber so much for me, yeah i guess if you have everything and have done everything you need an exotic caliber to give it a twist, (nothing against you who have, i am green with envy)me i have never gone to africa (yet, please god i have been a good boy) so for me the thrill of the adventure of it all the hunt the anticipation of having my prize in my sights will be all the excitement and adrenaline i will need. money is an issue. what action, barrel, barrel length twist ect ect would you suggest? i am leaning twards 22" barrel

thanks paul, i'll do some research on the a square

The 450 rigby or 450 dakota are better designed cartridges, but there are tradeoffs. Those cartridges require a longer action than the Lott, so if a fellow wants a M70 or M98 sized rifle, the Lott is better. Also the 450 rigby and 450 dakota burn more powder than the Lott so they kick more. But the Rigby and Dakota can get more velocity, or can achieve the same velocity with less pressure. However, if you hope to ever find ammo in Africa get the .458 Lott.

thanks mr grains...you sound as distinguished and knowledgable as your picture...any recomendations on the stainless building route?

If you want stainless steel, then start with a Model 70 stainless in .375 and rebarrel it to 458 lott. That would be the cheapest and easiest.

Or you could just get a blue steel CZ550 in 450 rigby and have it teflon cloated which is more corrosion resistant than stainless steel.

other than the new barrel, is there any other work to be done? chamber, strengtening ect?

CZ550:

add cross bolts - $75 to $100
add 2nd recoil lug on barrel $75 to $100
inlet stock and steel bed $100
cut off ugly bolt handle and replace with Obendorf style - $100
replace safety/trigger with M70 style - $250 to $300
polish bolt body and raceways $100

Oops - I deleted the M70 info.

wow.....

the sad face was because it sounds expensive...

I would go with the Lott for all the reasons mentioned and the fact that it is a great round for the handloader, loads down well for practice plinkers too. Mine is very accurate, sub MOA with any reasonable handload. Another option would be to find M70 458 WM and get it re-chambered to 458 Lott. Usually doesn't cost too much to do but make sure they pull the barrel to get it right.Lose the cheap factory front sight and replace with an NEC banded one and you are good to go. If you ever have to sell it (oh, the humanity) the Lott will be much easier to move.

I prefer the Lott, mostly for a smaller action and a lighter rifle to pack around...The difference in killing effect on game is equal as far as I can tell...The 450 is just a 460 Wby without a belt, and thats good, but if I shoot a 450 I would be loading it up there and getting the snot kicked out of me, I can't bring myself to load down!

All practicality issues aside I just like the Lott because of Jack Lott. I miss his scribings.

Quit screwing around and just buy both,dilema solved

It seems to me what you really need is a 30-06.

Yes I agree both is the ultimate Goal

mike, what do you mean 30-06...

Well even if you get a Lott and a Rigby you still don't have a practical rifle for 90% of the available hunting opportunities.

If the gun is for very big game only then the 458 Lott.

But if want to play around with different loads and have a much wider range of performance and a wider range of powders then the 450 Rigby. But to fully utilise to the 450 Rigbys potential for high velocity with ligher bullets you will need a muzzle brake on it. Not only do muzzle brakes reduce the recoil but they make the rifle far more controllable and especially when shot from improvised rests in the field.

Based on two 460 Wbys I previously owned you will be able to take the 450 Rigby all the way down to 400 grain Speers at 1300 f/s with no fillers and top accuracy. I use to use 28 grains of Hi Score 700 X.

The 460s shoout well with full power loads and 350 grainers which will do around 3000 f/s.

In my opinion the 450 Rigby, 450 Dakota and 460 Wby are much more complete calibres than the 458 Lott, provided a muzzle brake is fitted and playing abou with different loads is a criteria.

Mike

Re: Mikelravy's smart-ass comment.

Either the Lott or the Rigby, but especially the Rigby because of its flexibility and greater potential, are extremely practical for 90-100% of available hunting opportunities. In Africa. Not in Pennsylvania, where a smallbore ("miniature" the English call them) firing military surplus ammo is undoubtedly adequate for whatever they have to hunt there.

I'll bet I've been to Africa more times than you have and I took a 30 06 or something like it every time. Big bores are fun but they aren't a practical only gun.

Both sides have legit points. A big bore can be loaded down to be a very fine plains game gun. For example, a .458 Lott can be loaded with 400 grain Woodleigh PP bullets for light recoil and an adequate trajectory to 300 yards. There are a few places in Namibia and RSA where shots will be longer, but generally 300 yards will take care of most shots presented.

On the other side of the coin, last trip I sure wished I had taken a 30-06 because baboons were plentiful, but ammo was not. Had I arrived with a 30-06, I could have gotten some more ammo and the baboons would have helped to feed the crocs.

And sometimes it is nice to walk around with a light rifle.

I actually agree with Mike. If all I had was a 45/70 guide gun, my next purchase would be a 30.06 class of rifle. I would them get a centerfire 22 and then a 375 H&H. If I still had something bigger that needed to be killed I would got with a 416 Rem or 458 Lott.

My .45's:

.45/70: Marlin
.458 WM: Whitworth and CZ
.458 Lott: Whitworth, Ruger, CZ
.458 BS: Whitworth
.45 Lapua: CZ
.450 Dakota: M98 Magnum

And I have owned and traded-in or rebarreled a couple of .460 Wby's ( a Mark V and a BBK-02), and 3 other .458 WM's (Winchester, Ruger, Remington).

A CZ 550 Magnum in .458 Lott with 3.8" magazine length is truly the most versatile and shootable of all.

quote:

I'll bet I've been to Africa more times than you have and I took a 30 06 or something like it every time. Big bores are fun but they aren't a practical only gun.

They might not be for you but they are for other people.

Over the years I have become convinced that people who are very keen guns/ammo people end up shooting in a manner that suits their gun/calibre choices. It is this for this reason that there is such variety of claims on "what is best".

Mike

quote:

Over the years I have become convinced that people who are very keen guns/ammo people end up shooting in a manner that suits their gun/calibre choices. It is this for this reason that there is such variety of claims on "what is best".

Mike375,

That is a stunning insight. One of those things that should be obvious when you think about it, but most people have been conditioned to think about it backward. Thanks. I'll use that.