The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores Cutting Edge Bullets (CEB) Anecdote ThreadGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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The Terminal ballistics thread needs a supplement. Here is a repository thread that will be considerably shorter than the 183 (at the moment) pages, of the interminable terminal ballistics thread. Rigorous scientific protocols are not required here, just a place to post CEB experiences of no statistical significance.  I am starting it off with an example of a new bullet that was inspired by prof242 wanting a lightweight for his .395-caliber rifles, for both elk and prairie dog. Today I finally got around to shooting some in my latest .395 Tatanka, Ruger No. 1. Rusty McGee of Hilltop Gun Shop built this one. I used Hornady .416 Rigby Brass, and it popped right out of the chamber, extracted easily, unlike the too-soft QualCart stuff I have, that was made from Hornady basic before it got hardened.  I just borrowed the scope off another Ruger No. 1 for preliminary load checking over the chronograph at 50 yards. Scope is a Sightron 1.25x-5x in Warne lever rings. I think Sightrons are as good as Leupold scopes. This is the .395-caliber 240-grain Flat base Hunting bullet from CEB. Copper hollow point. Custom made for Max and me. I started at 102 grains and ended with 110 grains of H4350 Extreme. One-grain increments of charge, three shots each charge for averages. No visible fouling after 27 shots in one hour at about 80 F, today. I think I will next load up a bunch with 105 grains and try them at 100 yards and 300 yards. Then test for expansion on something in the size range of hog to bison. Recoil is like a 30-06, and I call the .395 Tatanka the "40-07." The .395 is "The Thinking Man's caliber."  Group size measurement was hurried, and imprecise. Like I said, this is a thread for anecdotes. Get enough anecdotes together and you might get a feel for the quality of CEB bullets.     | ||
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Gees RIP, lot's of velocity, and all in a hole! These continue to amaze me with the accuracy. The BBW#13s are the same, regardless of cartridge, load, or anything else, if I do my job, it's a hole at 50 yds. I don't do much testing beyond 50, and irons I am limited by eyesight to 25 yds for any real work, or work I can count on. 50 is a crap shoot for me, sometimes yes, many times no! Scope, have to at 50 or beyond for positive results I can count on. During the recent pressure tests with the Marlin in 50 BM AK I was amazed at the accuracy coming out of the lever guns--it's the bullets, not the rifles! Precision made, name of the game! And the same one after another! Excellent shooting! M http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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AT 4 YDS? The statistical significance of any of these accuracy tests is dependent upon the shooter and whether the bullets are mass concentric. Apparently you have both that are good enough, at least at 4 yards.  ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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Or the development of an idle mind. And to think it is too whimped to disguise the fact that it uses 416 bullets while being called a 395. Such heresy. ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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4 Yards? OK, I am missing something somewhere I suppose Will--I don't see 4 yds mentioned anywhere?
 http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Oops. I didn't see the 50 yards. AND I LOOKED AND LOOKED. RIP is so long-winded that my the time I get to the end I've dozed off. ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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The lathed bullets, it seems to me, have the edge, no matter they are called, because they can be inherently manufactured more mass concentric than any cup and core bullet. As long as the lathe is of sufficient precision, and voila, never ending stories of super duper accuracy. In the last X years, however the long the lathe turned bullets have been around, bullets have seen a major increase in accuracy. All good stuff for the confidence of the shooter, though of limited significance for the hunter. Who can deny they have the capability of great precision in shooting? Good stuff. ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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Ron, Nice looking bullet and very nice accuracy; the 105gr load of H4350 certainly appears to have hit the sweet spot for this rifle/cartridge/bullet combination. I look forward to seeing the results of your 100yd and 300yd tests. On a side note, I’ve initiated discussion with Dan regarding .423 caliber and .500 caliber spitzer HP bullets…weights in the range of 320gr and 430gr respectively. I gave Dan most of the maximum cartridge/rifle chamber parameters in an email yesterday. I’m not sure whether the bullets will be MTH or FBH style as I’m leaving that to Dan’s expertise and the final bullet weights will fall where they come out… Michael if you’re still around… Dan responded to my email this morning; we’re slated to discuss his initial workups tomorrow. Also, Dan indicated...weather cooperating...that they were testing some .338 caliber BBW#13 HP with Tip Inserts (manufactured for the test) today to identify valid 450yd BC for the #13s with TIs. Definitely good stuff. Jim  "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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I go quickly to sleep whenever the .395 is mentioned. Dave DRSS Chapuis 9.3X74 Chapuis "Jungle" .375 FL Krieghoff 500/.416 NE Krieghoff 500 NE "Git as close as y can laddie an then git ten yards closer" "If the biggest, baddest animals on the planet are on the menu, and you'd rather pay a taxidermist than a mortician, consider the 500 NE as the last word in life insurance." Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading (8th Edition). | |||
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With another year and some vitamins it will grow up to a real 416---  SSR | |||
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 OK OK OK--Trying to catch my breath--Come on RIP, have to admit, that's kinda funny! LOLL M http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Let's see, Jim, RIP and someone else wanting .423s????? Yes, I put in the order, I think some are on the way and may be here tomorrow? I ordered exactly what we talked about--First a 400 gr BBW#13 Solid and it's matching NonCon, probably 370 or so. I also ordered a run of 350 gr BBW#13 Solids, and it's matching NonCon what, 325 or so I reckon! All .423. From now on those numbers are established and will be available, either on the shelves or from me, or special runs. Either way, done deal. .423 BBW#13s on the way! Damned bullets, may cost me a fortune! 425 B&M Hmmmmmm? Crap, can't even get my 475 B&M up and running! First things first! Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Yep, just like me and the 450 Marlin.  I greatly enjoy the exclusivity of the .395 Club. Michael, Just ignore Will when he becomes nonsensical, everyone else does. He either has a strange sense of humor, or has found veritas in vino. CEB Anecdotes Wanted ... | |||
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 You and me both!!! I’m in with Dan for at least 250 each of the .423 and .500 High BC HP Spitzer bullets. But yes I’m in. I’ll let you know how many of each weight after I talk to Dan tomorrow about the spitzers.Jim "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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RIP:   .395 Family Member DRSS, po' boy member Political correctness is nothing but liberal enforced censorship | |||
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I have a good bit of experience shooting these bullets you know! I dare say, I have shot more CEB BBW#13s Solids and NonCons than any man living or dead!  Every single caliber, every cartridge, every bullet, 50 yds, DG Ranges--All in hole-If I do my part. Just excellent quality. It took a bit of doing on everyones part, but it's a Perfect bullet for what we want out of it. Both Solid and NonCon. I am particularly proud of one thing, pertaining strictly to the BBW#13s. When we got the solid perfect, 67% meplat, rounded radius, 4 bands the works--It was HP NonCon Time! I felt sure that if we just took the same exact BBW#13 Solid, put a .400 deep cavity in it, although it would not weigh the same, that POI at 50 yds would be the same, or damned close the same, and that was correct. If they are CLOSE to the same velocity, they are same "Practical" POI. It worked. Was not much issues with the cavity except being too small, not wide enough, on some calibers. That sorted out quickly, and we got the rifle formula on that as well. I say we, it was a effort from CEB, myself, Sam, and probably some others too, I know Boomy was the radius guy, and if I left you out, sorry, old and forget things! But it was a great effot on everyones part, and it's our bullet now. Here are a few instances of POI of the Solid/NonCons       This is just a small sample, but this is the jest of the matter. Excellent I think! Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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 Old anecdote, waiting for new. CEB accuracy is reproducible in Kentucky, just like in South Carolina. Similar .458 B&M results with CEB bullets, even though my twist is faster (1:10") and the throat is longer, and velocity slower, than the standard .458 B&M. 4 bullets went into one hole, and I blew it on the 5th shot, went low and right and ripped the paper, horribly enlarging the group. I tried to blame my blow on the blowing of the wind, but it must have just been the excitement of those first 4 shots in this group:  My B&M dummy collection and some live .458 B&M ammo. The two brass bullets in front of the box are CEB .458-caliber.  | |||
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RIP  Excellent shooting, and yes repeatable in KY as well as here in SC. Can't ask for much better than that! Excellent! I still don't like that even spaced 4 band bullet too much, mistake from MIB here in the beginning. But seated out, so it does not have to jump too far, it still shoots good! Obviously! Velocity seems about 40 fps or so off on the 19.75 inch barrel of yours with that 450??? I am getting that with the 18 inch gun, and with the 20 2250 fps or so. Hmmmm? Not that it much matters in the field for sure. Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by RIP This may set a record for the most information conveyed on a single target. Mike | |||
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Ture but I like it; certainly makes things easy to identify all of the data necessary to replicate a grouping. Jim "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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RIP, By the time I get MY .458 B&M, you will have all the loading data completed so I can just load and go shoot! Max .395 Family Member DRSS, po' boy member Political correctness is nothing but liberal enforced censorship | |||
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Seems to work really well with the .223 as well. Jim "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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Yes, it is true, but the difference is, the 4 bands on the 223 are closer together as well! Max, I have some pretty good data on the 458 B&M, would you like me to pdf that to you? RIP records good data! I keep decent records, getting better over the years. I keep file folders on each rifle as they are shot, any modifications, any issues, and each official target for each load, good or bad. Load data and notes are kept on a spreadsheet per given cartridge, then by rifle, then by bullet. At any time, I can go back to that folder, for that rifle, and determine what shot best, worst, POI and a good deal of other info as well. Not perfect, but I do so much here, no way to keep up without some sort of protocol. The BBW#13 has turned into far more than just a bullet---It's a "System", Solid with parameters throughout the range of calibers, from 223-.620. All the same, performance the same, HP NonCon, same story, same bullet, consistent performance, now a Hi BC Tip for added BC, same bullet. Next the "Carnivore", same bullet, different mission! A "Bullet System"...... M http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Michael, Definitely send me a pdf on the .458 B&M data. I hope I'll be able to help on data when the .474/5 comes out. Max .395 Family Member DRSS, po' boy member Political correctness is nothing but liberal enforced censorship | |||
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Michael/Doc M, My faster twist may divert some of the kinetic energy to rotational velocity, aye, maybe 0.1 %, minimal, not even worth bothering to calculate, the difference between my 1:10 vs. a 1:12" or 1:14" twist. My longer throat will also lessen the pressure and velocity a bit, minimal, and it does not hurt the accuracy. So these two factors combined would likely account for my 40 fps slower velocity than the tigher throated and slower twist of your standard for the .458 B&M. But, I can single-shot load some VLD .458 heavy-weights to longer COL for whaling at high velocity, or whispering at low velocity. Do not fear a parallel-sided throat length that is just under caliber-diameter in length. Do not fear a faster than standard twist. Accuracy with short and long bullets is good inside of 500 yards. Also, penetration is not worsened by faster twist, at close range, according to MIB testing, IIRC.  | |||
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Also, penetration is not worsened by faster twist, at close range, according to MIB testing, IIRC. If anything it seems to me that faster twist=better penetration due increased stability- SSR | |||
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Cross L, Glad you get it. | |||
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by michael458: Let's see, Jim, RIP and someone else wanting .423s????? Hi Michael, do i want to have .423" cal. Bullets.....? YES, several boxes....but Want to have A LOT of .500"Cal´s too..... AND a REAL LOT of CEB´s .375" Match/Tactical Bullets too....... Oh, but wait.....sorry they don´t ship outside USA...... Best another Michael aka 2RECON | |||
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Hey Michael Read below please! http://site.cuttingedgebullets.com/pages/news From the Cutting Edge Bullet Website 08/10/2011 Reloading International is now set up to export our bullets to many different countries. Their fees are very reasonable and their charge is 10% over the retail price to cover the cost of the necessary paperwork. Please visit their web site at www.reloadinginternational.com or call at 541-404-2262 for details. You can also email Mike Gregg at mike@reloadinginternational.com. Until they get our product lines on their web site orders will have to be placed by phone or email. It takes approximately 2 weeks for the permits to go through so please keep that in mind. All bullets will be shipped priority mail and the shipping cost is roughly $35.00 to Canada and $53.00 to other countries. The other Michael--This one>>  http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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And while at it, more CEB news. 08/10/2011 Safari Arms LTD Custom Ammunition is now set up as a dealer who will custom load our Dangerous Game Brass bullets for your rifle. Contact John LaSala at 516-826-7516, email at info@safariarms.com, or visit their web site at www.safariarms.com for more details. http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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CEB has been busy updating the website lately, doing some organization and it looks pretty good. Check it out. https://cuttingedgebullets.com...action&category=BULL http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Website looks good! Adding a boutique ammo retail option is a big deal. Now the "System" hybrid switch point bullet needs to be added 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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Website is greatly improved. Neat videos of bullets being cut on the media page; 1st one is the BBW#13 being cut. Jim "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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Hi Michael, Thanx a lot. Mail send to Mr.Gregg. Will see whats going on........ Best 2RECON looki´n forward to load those .500cal to RIP´s .49-10..... | |||
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Hmm. I read it that the chronograph was at 50 yards. RIP...that's some good shoosting right there. Those CEB's are very interesting. Thanks for posting this very good and valuable intel.When I have been away from the forums for any length of time, my first thoughts are "what has RIP been up to lately?" I am seldom disappointed. Cheers Chris | |||
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Canuck, I have run out of anecdotes until I do some more shooting. Hopefully my 404 RIP will be next. New CEB .423 bullets! I really ought to do hunt reports too, eh? Any CEB anecdotes welcome here! Please specify ranges in BOLD for Will! | |||
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The cases were formed from 416 Rigby brass. The bullets are CNC machined bullets turned to .395" diameter. Jim "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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RIP, For Will's ease of reading, not only publish the ranges in BOLD, but in CAPS and italicized also! .395 Family Member DRSS, po' boy member Political correctness is nothing but liberal enforced censorship | |||
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