quote:

Originally posted by Will:

quote:

The .395 is "The Thinking Man's caliber."

Or the development of an idle mind.

And to think it is too whimped to disguise the fact that it uses 416 bullets while being called a 395. Such heresy.

I tell you Will must be hitting the bottle pretty hard if he cannot see any straighter than that!
That was just so pathetic I ignored it.
Poor Will, a has been, all washed out by the veritas in the vino!
I "Will" have some .423 anecdotes next and I "Will" type slowly and loudly when I post them ...

Ok… We were discussing the .423 caliber CEB bullets but the conversation kind of moved to the TBP Thread…so I thought I’d run the highlights here to bring us back on track. So here goes!

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Figuring a bullet weight for a reversible:
The 404 or .423-caliber is a nice middle of the road place to start.
Here are the latest from CEB:
400-gr FN
375-gr HP
350-gr FN
325-gr HP









Roughly estimating a 25-grain loss when the flat base is turned into a flat nose in this caliber, so whittle the 375-grain HP down to reversible:

The reversible would be about 350-grains and 1.500" long. That is mighty long. I would not want to go any lighter than 350grains for the all-purpose .423-caliber reversible.

Add the Talon Tip and it is way long, about perfect for long range use in my 1:10" twist McGowen barrels ...as long as the .423" diameter brass works in the .4245" McGowen barrels. The .423" North Fork copper bullets have always been sub-MOA in same barrels.

If necessary, Pac-Nor .423" grooves, and fast twist.

BUT hold my hosses: These new CEB bullets measure .424" on the bands by my calipers!
Should be perfect. 0.412" on the bore-riding shank, and the HP cavities are about 0.448" deep.

Bands on the Reversible format: 4 bands in the middle, and no seal band at the base, of course, since there is no more flat base.

Well, just sticking with the current band structures on separate FN and HP bullets, with the option of the Talon Tip on the lighter HP, and the heavier FN for "solid work," well, that ain't such a bad idea!

Maybe I better get on Dave Bush's trolley, and keep it on the tracks ...

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Vernier Micrometer diameters on the CEB .423-cal:
0.4233" all 4 bands
0.4115" bore-riding nose diameter
0.4075" bore-riding shank diameter between the top 3 bands and the base-sealing last band.

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:
.423 CEB BBW#13 FN Solids and HP NonCon Bullets:
I have these bullets as well but hadn’t had a chance to completely measure them up – thanks RIP for providing the bullet lengths.

I think we had a definite moment when we spec’d the .423 caliber bullet. We identified the four bullet weights but would likely better been served had be benchmarked the maximum bullet lengths for the two FN Solid/HP NonCon bullet sets and let the actual bullet weights fall where they arrived at.

For the next run of bullets – when that time comes – I propose that 1.450” be set for the heavier bullet set which would keep the existing 400gr FN Solid and its paired HP NonCon should then come in at around 360grs. For the lighter bullet set – I recommend that this bullet set be kept to a maximum of 1.250” length which should result in an approximate 340gr FN Solid with a paired HP NonCon of 300gr-310gr weight.

This shorter bullet would give the smaller case capacity folks, such as users of the 10.75x68 Mauser cartridges, a real DG set of bullets for their rifles. And as Michael has demonstrated that the little 330gr Barnes FN BND Solid gives pretty darn good terminal performance in the .458 caliber, there is no reason to believe that a 340gr (approx. weight) BBW#13 FN Solid bullet would not give even better terminal performance in the .423 caliber!

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Jim,
1.450" max length on the .423/400-grain FN heavy and a 1.250" max length on a .423/340-ish-grain FN light, and let the weights fall where they will when those basic forms are hollow-pointed into NonCons...
Yep, I could drink a Bud Lite and a Bud Heavy to that:

As they are, the 325, 350, 375, and 400-grain steps are neat and lengths will be perfect for the 404 Jeffery and 404 RIP. I am loading about 80 bullets for initial testing in the Jeff (Varget) and RIP (H4350) ... should get a few anecdotes out of that! That's as light and Heavy as I go on 404 anyway.

Ok…Now that we’re back on the .423 caliber CEB track…

Here’s the first draft of the HP Spitzer bullet that Dan is doing for me:

Dan projects the BC to be somewhere in the .45-.50 range as currently designed. I’m trying to decide whether to have it made slightly longer and perhaps with slightly more ogive, which would make it slightly heavier as well, or accept it as is.

Any comments? Questions? Recommendations?

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:
Ok…Now that we’re back on the .423 caliber CEB track…

Here’s the first draft of the HP Spitzer bullet that Dan is doing for me:

Dan projects the BC to be somewhere in the .45-.50 range as currently designed. I’m trying to decide whether to have it made slightly longer and perhaps with slightly more ogive, which would make it slightly heavier as well, or accept it as is.

Any comments? Questions? Recommendations?

Looks like a winner in .416. I am happy to use tipped non-cons for a start, but it would seem a natural development to produce a magazine fed (=normal length bullet), medium-high-BC bullet that can dupulicate the petal explosions of the BBW13. Basically, the bullet weight just stays down in the 325 grain range. Barnes has already produced a 350 grain TTSX (.444 BC), but without any design to blow petals into a flat-nose deep-driving core.

Sorry for this being so long…I hope it makes sense.

Here’s some background info for what it’s worth:
The MTH Y01 is a compromise bullet design by intent. My discussion with Dan lead to a hybrid of his FBH and MTH bullet designs; a bullet that would give excellent performance in the 250yd to 400yd range against game animals as well as maximum performance at 600yds for long target range practice (definitely a stretch of my 325yd maximum comfort range). I additionally specified 320gr (+/- 10gr) as the target bullet weight. The MTH Y01 as currently designed fully meets my specification requirements.

The MTH Y01 will currently be constructed in copper. Dan indicates that it will open up at low velocity but he can’t promise that the petals will completely shear off at low velocity; high velocity impact should cause the petals to expand and then shear off. But this is something we certainly won’t know for sure until I get bullets in hand, as well as my rifle, and give them a try.

After my earlier post, Dan and I had some additional discussion. He projected going up 1 caliber in Ogive would bring MTH Y01 up to .500 BC, from its current .450 BC, which would be awesome for a design specific hunting bullet. But it still would have been a 600yd bullet plus the additional design tweaks may have decreased its multi-cartridge usability.
[For those who might want to know; Dan indicated that a good performing .423 caliber 1000yd bullet would have to be least 420gr in weight and would require additional tweaking of the Ogive and bullet overall length to it optimize for that range.]
Anyway, Dan fully supported whatever decision I would make regarding using the current bullet design or undergoing the 1 caliber Ogive design changes (which would have been fully usable with my cartridge and my rifle’s magazine length) to enhance the bullets BC.

My decision? I gave Dan the Ok to produce 300 bullets of the MYH Y01 for me as currently designed.

Tan,
I did not discuss a short length tip insert for the MTH Y01 but I’m sure one could be developed. Whether the bullet would remain magazine usable with the tip insert is an unknown and would certainly be dependent upon each individual’ cartridge and magazine lengths; Tips should add additional BC to the bullet though.

Barnes does have a good TSX/TTSX multiple bullet weight offering in .375 caliber, .416 caliber, and .458 caliber – however the .423 caliber is served by a single 400gr TSX. Me, I don’t need a 400gr .423 caliber TSX bullet for stateside hunting nor do I believe I’d need it for African plains game hunting.

And most definitely we already have DG hunting covered with the BBW#13 across the board from .366 caliber up to .620 caliber. In .423 caliber we already have two paired Solid/HP NonCon bullet weights (400gr/375gr and 350gr/325gr) so it’s well covered. And you’re correct, just add the Tip Insert to a BBW#13 HP NonCon in the tube and you’re ready for those potential first long range shots. This is about as good as it gets.

But…I think by .423 caliber CEB MTH Y01 at .450 BC stands up pretty well to the .416 caliber .444 BC Barnes TTSX bullet.

quote:

But…I think by .423 caliber CEB MTH Y01 at .450 BC stands up pretty well to the .416 caliber .444 BC Barnes TTSX bullet.

Acutally the CEB might stand up better. What is the bullet length? The .416 TTSX Barnes needs 1.603" to reach its .444 BC. The guppy mouth CEB might be shorter? It is sometimes surprising how slight differences of angle can cover up what would seem to be a big obstacle for BC.

As for dangerous game, I would shoot your 325 grainer at Mr. Mbogo, as long as it had some good velocity/energy. It shouldn't be a problem. the name of the game is guaranteed penetration and that is where mono-metals shine.

quote:

I did not discuss a short length tip insert for the MTH Y01 but I’m sure one could be developed. Whether the bullet would remain magazine usable with the tip insert is an unknown and would certainly be dependent upon each individual’ cartridge and magazine lengths; Tips should add additional BC to the bullet though.

Hey, if the bullet can be designed to be .450 BC as is, it probably doesn't need a tip.

The main idea for a tip would be to allow a wide-mouth, easily-opening hole without giving up BC. With a tipped 'wide-mouth' we would have guaranteed penetration from the monometal core and almost-guaranteed expansion for the mouth/petals. (Remember, there have been cases of non-expansion with monometal bullets. Even one of Michael's tests where the insert sheared and plugged the hole is a reminder. We prefer expansion.)

Bullet length is 1.420". Dan and CEB folks are pretty savvy about designing high BC long range bullets. Most of their high BC hunting bullets have a small diameter HP but in my case we wanted reliable expansion at lower velocities so Dan designed widened the HP on this bullet...will also score the inside for nice distinct petals.

In discussions with Dan...apparently crisp cut driving bands can disrupt airflow reducing a bullets BC...perhaps the TSX bands are partially to blame for their lower BC.

Interesting.
I did notice those sleeker looking bands. Will he do some .416's too?

1.4" is a relatively short bullet and will work in the 416 Rigby, Rem, and Ruger. I for one love the concept of the BBW13 flat-nose solid, but I have no demand for the 'non-con' to use the same nose. Design something sleek! The flat-nose solid will work fine up-close as a follow-up. But at 300 yards it will drop an extra foot.

Yes they'll build them in any caliber...just costs more for the 1st batch for the CNC programming and any hard parts for making the specific HP and inside scoring grooves.

However, CEB already makes a pretty aerodynamic 350gr HP in .416 caliber:
https://cuttingedgebullets.com...d=action&key=MTH_V11
About double the cost of Barnes TSX but inline pricewise with NF premium bullets though perhaps a bit more.

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:
Yes they'll build them in any caliber...just costs more for the 1st batch for the CNC programming and any hard parts for making the specific HP and inside scoring grooves.

However, CEB already makes a pretty aerodynamic 350gr HP in .416 caliber:
https://cuttingedgebullets.com...d=action&key=MTH_V11
About double the cost of Barnes TSX but inline pricewise with NF premium bullets though perhaps a bit more.

Thank you for that.
The pictures on the webpage make it look like the bullet is around 1.55"-1.6" long. If so, I am wondering why they limit the bullet to 1x12" twist? I calculate a 1.6 to 1.7 Miller stability factor when using a 16.5" twist, which should stabilize a bullet, hopefully with reasonable 'go to sleep' distances.

On arrival to target, an expanding bullet will almost always penetrate straight. The only real question would be if expansion is consistently reliable with the small hollow point. Michael could help us here. Another test would be in ballistic gel after passing through a piece of wet leather. As an added test, what would happen if the entry face were set at a sharp angle, say 25 degrees?

Anyway, the bullet looks ideal. I wish that I could test some. My problem is that my rifles aren't in a place where I can do the testing. I would need to load up and carry the rounds without first testing in my particular rifle with it's 16.5" twist. It's like the saying 'being led to water and not being allowed to drink'.

Tanz

I suppose you have talked to Dan, or sent email? I spoke with him this morning, and he is going to tweak the current 416 bullet some, a wider HP, or cavity and broached proper. He will be sending them for me to test out before doing any or making a major change in them for production. First and foremost is terminal performance, everything else second, unless target shooting, I don't think you are target shooting! I don't trust tiny cavities to work proper. So once this is done, terminals confirmed, you can get what you want.

Michael

Oh, and Jim and RIP, what will work with the 416 will work with the .423s as well. So I just want to give these copper, higher BC bullets a bit of a workout before you guys get them! OK?

M

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Oh, and Jim and RIP, what will work with the 416 will work with the .423s as well. So I just want to give these copper, higher BC bullets a bit of a workout before you guys get them! OK?

M

Absolutely. Test them to the limits.
One question will be to see what kind of remaining core, if any, drives in deep and straight. they may be quite different from the brass non-con.

There is also another option when considering a wider meplat with a higher BC-- a wide meplat could be partially filled with a tapered ogive tip that works back toward the 'small meplat' HP. A magazine fed, higher BC, suitable for DG bullet will come out of this, eventually.

Tanz

I can pretty much tell you what is going to happen with the Copper HP, if the cavity is correct, and being broached. Remember, this is copper that has not been annealed, barnes are annealed now to retain the petals or blades.

Mass--or, as RIP says, SD, will push expansion. I have a good bit of experience with copper in the .500s, exact same bullet at 380, 425, and 470 copper HP. More of a round nose design with a big cavity. For conversation and example (as I don't recall the exact velocities) the 380 runs to 2400 fps before petals shear, 425 to 2200 fps, and 470 to around 2100 fps. Mass behind the blades pushing them off quicker. The same will occur with this 350 .416, but not sure of what impact velocity it will be? This is a good thing, the blades will shear differently than what the brass BBW#13 does. They will shear uneven along the wound channel, starting at around 4 inches going to 12 inches or so. They will remain within the wound channel, while the remaining bullet continues to penetrate, like a BBW#13.

Now, as velocity slows and you are at range, whatever, say 150-200 yards maybe, but at some point, those blades will hang onto the main bullet, and it reverts back to a 6 bladed conventional bullet, which is not bad either. Close, it's massive tissue damage because of the shearing action, out further, it turns conventional.

I used a 470 Copper Lehigh in Australia in the 500 MDM at 2425 fps. Anything under 75 yds I had enough velocity to shear, and it hit like a hammer. If beyond 75 yds it turned into a 6 bladed conventional bullet, still did the job, and still had enough penetration. I did very very little shooting beyond 75 yds with this, maybe just a few shots. Vast majority was well under 30 yds or so.

This is what is going to happen, if we get the cavity correct. Which is going to be wider than what you see current.

How Wide? Hell I don't know, Dan is sorting that out, and we go from that point after testing.

Michael

quote:

The pictures on the webpage make it look like the bullet is around 1.55"-1.6" long. If so, I am wondering why they limit the bullet to 1x12" twist? I calculate a 1.6 to 1.7 Miller stability factor when using a 16.5" twist, which should stabilize a bullet, hopefully with reasonable 'go to sleep' distances.

Tan,
I don’t have the exact measurements but I’m thinking the bullet is around 1.52” - 1.53” in length…’bout 0.04” shorter than the 400gr TSX. Also, the stated minimum is a 17” twist rate. Here’s the full descriptive test from the website (I highlighted the pertinent parts):

quote:

This bullet was designed for magazine feeding in rifles chambered in .416 Rigby and similar cartridges. COAL will be the brass length trimmed to trim length + .874" bullet projection for recommended starting Seal Tite Band position. COAL can be adjusted +.050 -.120 if required to fit a particular magazine. A minimum 1-17" barrel twist rate is required. BC of .55 was calculated using a muzzle velocity and accurate drops to 850 yards.

Definitely sounds like this would work in your 416 Rigby… But a slightly wider HP diameter wouldn’t hurt.

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:

quote:

The pictures on the webpage make it look like the bullet is around 1.55"-1.6" long. If so, I am wondering why they limit the bullet to 1x12" twist? I calculate a 1.6 to 1.7 Miller stability factor when using a 16.5" twist, which should stabilize a bullet, hopefully with reasonable 'go to sleep' distances.

Tan,
I don’t have the exact measurements but I’m thinking the bullet is around 1.52” - 1.53” in length…’bout 0.04” shorter than the 400gr TSX. Also, the stated minimum is a 17” twist rate. Here’s the full descriptive test from the website (I highlighted the pertinent parts):

quote:

This bullet was designed for magazine feeding in rifles chambered in .416 Rigby and similar cartridges. COAL will be the brass length trimmed to trim length + .874" bullet projection for recommended starting Seal Tite Band position. COAL can be adjusted +.050 -.120 if required to fit a particular magazine. A minimum 1-17" barrel twist rate is required. BC of .55 was calculated using a muzzle velocity and accurate drops to 850 yards.

Definitely sounds like this would work in your 416 Rigby… But a slightly wider HP diameter wouldn’t hurt.

Dan is working on a wider meplat. He is active for sure, since the 17" on the website was added within the last few hours after having an email conversation on this earlier today.

Tan,
Good to hear. Dan is pretty quick with his efforts. If it'd work for you you're more than welcome to use the .423 caliber MTH Y01 bullet style. I certainly didn't want Dan to keep it as a personal style for me especially if it'll work for someone else.

Michael,
You have a PM.

Jim,
Your new .423/320-grain CEB bullet reminds me of the GSC HV .423/320-grain, nice bullets.



404 RIP load development:

Fired about 4 dozen bullets Saturday before I got rained out.
It was a start at getting loads developed for the CEB "Brass Quartet" of .423 bullets,
and a finish for load development with the GSC "Horn Solo."

This verifies that my McGowen .4245"-grooved barrels can shoot these bullets accurately.
CEB bullet diameter: .4233"
GSC bullet diameter: .4235"
That is according to my vernier micrometer, my measurements, for what they are worth.

109 grains of H4350 gave 2838 fps with the GSC 320-grainer: 1.338" copper bullet length.
109 grains of H4350 gave 2802 fps with the CEB-325 grainer: 1.320" brass bullet length.



It's a start.

Been working to much to play. Will post final loads and targets later.

It's a beautiful round and the tests look consistent and tight. Congratulations. The GSC bullet looks awesome.

I'm glad to see someone loading the round to its natural potential, 6000+ ftlb., and 2800+fps. That is a true all-around cartridge, oribi to buffalo. It doesn't get much better.

Hey RIP,
Very nice load workup. There is similarity between the 320gr GSC HV 061 and the 320gr CEB MTH Y01 bullets; I hadn’t really thought about it before. I’ll have to send you some of the MTH Y01s to try once they arrive, then you can let us know how they stack up accuracy wise to the HV 061s.

I am very impressed with all the CEB bullet developments. Seeing the .423" with a sloping ogive is definitely a development worth watching as a 'magazine loadable' higher BC non-con.

This brings up an area that could use some creative development:
the .510" diameter.

Michael and Dan have worked together on some very impressive .500" bullets, and I am wondering if some of this will be transferred into .510" too, in the near future. The 500 AccRel, 500 Mbogo, 500 Jeffrey, 510 Wells, 500 ASquare, even the 500 NE, would all benefit.

Traditionally, the .510" was the 50 calibre "rifle" and .500" was the 50 calibre pistol. But most bullet manufacturers only offer a slow heavy .510" designed for the 500NE, with little flexibility for the bolt-action users and this generation's ideas on bullets.

Personally, I would love to see a .510" bullet between 420-480 grains with a .400 BC, if physically possible. 1.5" length? If a tip is necessary on a relatively wide HP, so be it. The inside might be scored in such a way as to facilitate a blunt cylinder formation at higher impact velocities (+2200fps?). Pricing closer to $2.50 rather than $4 would help, too. Those ought to hunt quite nicely at about 2600fps and should stop a hartebeest, or whatever is found over the next rise.

Well, it's a wish list anyway.

Tan,
I think between Dan and Michael's work with the .416 caliber spritzer, Max's and Ron's .395 caliber FBHP, and Dan's design work on my .423 caliber and .500 caliber MTH bullets that we just might have a design - bullet shape as well as HP diameter - that will provide .450+ BC and very reliable expansion at low velocity. Once the variables are set then it should be a design portablento all DG calibers. Cost is going to be directly related to order volume AND whether the bullets are destined as "one off orders" or " a stock shelf" item.

The BB HP Spitzer saga continues... Yesterday I received an email from Dan with my .500 caliber drawing. I also had a very good and lengthy discussion with Dan in a follow up phone call.

Anyway, here is the 430gr .500 CEB MTH Y01 bullet drawing:



While it is short at 1.349” OAL, it is slightly longer than the BBW#13 500gr FN Solid/460gr HP NonCon which run right at 1.331” OAL, and right on the money weight wise. Building the bullets basic dimensions in QD for transfer to QL noted a 0.426 BC which is pretty good for this diameter and length bullet.

And best yet, both the .423 and .500 caliber MTH Y01s will be shipping next week!

Edit Added: As an FYI, I’ve computed the 300yd drop for the 430gr .500 CEB MTH Y01 from my .500 caliber rifle with a 20” vis-à-vis the following cartridge/bullet combinations – all computed at 62000psi loading – with 22” barrel length and all are within +/-1” bullet drop:
.308 Winchester w/ 180gr Nosler Partition
.30-06 Springfield w/ 200gr Nosler Partition
8x57 IS (8mm Mauser) w/ 200gr Nosler Partition
.338-06 A-Square w/ 225gr Nosler Partition
So developing a light caliber rifle/cartridge/bullet for close range rapid fire and long range 300yd practice is fairly easy…as well as much cheaper for practice as well

Jim,
I want that .500cal/.430grbullet!
Will call Dan The Man Monday morning and see if I can horn in on that order.
It should be a slick feeder from the magazine of my 49-10 M70 Winchester (McGee-Sunny Hill) that has a +3.6" box,
even crimped with more than .9292" of nose showing.
It might work through the 3.5" box of the McGee-Wiebe Mauser, if seated deep without a crimp.
49-10 brass length is 2.647"-trimmed.
Should improve feeding in anything.

RIP,

I was having trouble with Photo Bucket Thursday night or I'd have gotten the photo posted much earlier. To be safe I'd email Dan ASAP and follow up with a phone call Saturday morning – just in case they’re at the shop. I know Dan said they were running big bore bullets today but I unfortunately don’t recollect if he said which day they were running .423 and .500 MTH Y01.

Dan stated the bullet can be seated +0.050"/-0.120" from the STB to fit within a magazine box so you’re good to go either way.

Let me know how it works out.

Jim,
I called Dan Friday afternoon and left a message after work hours.
I emailed him just now, as you suggested.
I'm on it.
Thanks.
Letter Rip

Jim,

what would the estimated BC be on a .510 bullet, 440 grain, with the nose limited to 0.75"?

Or what would be necessary to do a .510" bullet on a 2.65" case, over .400 BC, and preferably fitting in a 3.4" or 3.45"?(Ruger Alaskan) box?

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
Jim,

what would the estimated BC be on a .510 bullet, 440 grain, with the nose limited to 0.75"?

Or what would be necessary to do a .510" bullet on a 2.65" case, over .400 BC, and preferably fitting in a 3.4" or 3.45"?(Ruger Alaskan) box?

Hey Tan,

Ok…I tweaked the 430gr .500 CEB MTH Y01 bullet design to .510 caliber and lengthening it to 1.359” to reach 440gr. Version MTH Y01 which required the Seal Tite Band to be seated within the case neck (almost to the shank/Ogive junction) gave an estimated 0.397 BC. Version MTH Y02 which seated the Seal Tite Band against the case mouth gave an estimated 0.341 BC. If I recollect correctly from my conversation with Dan, a 0.050 BC difference between two same-caliber same-weight bullets only resulted in a couple of inches more drop at 300yds.

Anyway, that’s the best I could come up with. I’m sure Dan would do a better tweaking of the design to maintain accuracy and still give you your desired 0.400 BC.

When you guys get some of these copper pointy bullets send me a handful and I will put them to the test!

M

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
Jim,

what would the estimated BC be on a .510 bullet, 440 grain, with the nose limited to 0.75"?

Or what would be necessary to do a .510" bullet on a 2.65" case, over .400 BC, and preferably fitting in a 3.4" or 3.45"?(Ruger Alaskan) box?

Hey Tan,

Ok…I tweaked the 430gr .500 CEB MTH Y01 bullet design to .510 caliber and lengthening it to 1.359” to reach 440gr. Version MTH Y01 which required the Seal Tite Band to be seated within the case neck (almost to the shank/Ogive junction) gave an estimated 0.397 BC. Version MTH Y02 which seated the Seal Tite Band against the case mouth gave an estimated 0.341 BC. If I recollect correctly from my conversation with Dan, a 0.050 BC difference between two same-caliber same-weight bullets only resulted in a couple of inches more drop at 300yds.

Anyway, that’s the best I could come up with. I’m sure Dan would do a better tweaking of the design to maintain accuracy and still give you your desired 0.400 BC.

Thanks, Jim. That gives me an idea of what is going on.

I also notice that your bearing surface for neck seating is only 0.3". In a .510" AccR the neck is approximately .45" (90% of calibre). This might allow for seating a bullet deeper than .05". What would happen if a .9"-nose bullet were seated 0.15" deep into the case?

Tan,
Both of my MTH Y01 bullets - 320gr .423 and 430gr .500 - can be seated further out of the case by 0.050" or deeper in the case by 0.120" per my conversation with Dan.

In had Dan design the bullets optimizes for a 2.5" case length and a 3.5" magazine length which resulted in the longer nose and shorter shank length. And while the boat tail does reduce the shank length for neck seating tension it gis stilsufficient to get a positive seating tension plus it does help boost the BC of this short pumpkin ball bullet.

Were I spec'ing a bullet specific for Jeff's 500 AccRel or RIP's 49-10 then it would have a longer shank and shorter nose. Going to a slightly longer and heavier bullet would help in both situations as well.

Michael,
Once the bullets arrive you'll have some coming your way. Won't do much good for the bullet box as they likely won't open...but Dan states they'll be awesome against bear, elk, deer, etc. Accuracy and pressure trace testing would be nice though. You should easily get +2800fps out of the 500 MDM with feeding from the magazine.

Somehow I don't think this is an "anecdote" thread anymore I was hoping someone would regale us with how the bullets worked in the field.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
Somehow I don't think this is an "anecdote" thread anymore I was hoping someone would regale us with how the bullets worked in the field.

I did that in June? OR July? I gave you seven buffalo, croc, elephant, hippo, and a waterbuck? Don't that count for nothing?

We have a few guys out right now, Lionhunter, and his buddy Carl. Then we are waiting on a big report from one of our own that I promised not to write up until I heard back from him. And I think we will hear from Aaron about using his 577 on elephant and buffalo too, more about the bullets anyway, soon. So there is some coming.

Michael

Jim,
It worked. I ordered some of your .500 bullets. Thanks.

Doc M,
Of course I owe you a lot of .500 bullets, will send however many you need.
I got in on the order Jim started.

If he designed the bullet for a 3.5" box, then it is perfect for my 49-10 McGee-Wiebe Mauser.
Also room to spare in the 49-10 McGee M70 with 3.625" box.

Even a Ruger Hawkeye with 3.425" box (I measured a .375 Ruger African) could use them single loaded on top with a box full of the CEB DG Brass (BBW FN and HP) fed from the magazine.

Hornady seems to have quit posturing about the "DG Brass" name used by CEB.

Really the "Talon Tip" on the brass bullets will do all I care for, and do it in the 3.425" box. Those brass bullets can be loaded to 3.3" or less, or longer, as one chooses, with the 49-10.
M70 3.625"
Mauser 3.505"
Ruger 3.425"
It's all good.
Maybe I need a third 49-10 on a Ruger ...

Oops, "Talon Tip": that is a no-no for nomenclature.

Dan said the plastic tips coming soon will be black in color.

"Black Talon" pistol bullets caused a PR/PC mess way back when ... Dan said he would stay away from that "Talon" name.

And as for Dave's griping, maybe Dan The Man will post some results from his own elk and wolf hunt. He'll be heading out west soon.
I am sure he will be using CEB bullets!

What to call those tips: "BC Tip," as opposed to "Ballistic Tip" or just "Cutting Edge Tips" or, duh, "CEB Tip!"

We shall see soon enough.

Any anecdotes welcome here, whether dead-animal related or not.
I might have to resort to pig shooting, oops, er, uh, wild boar shooting soon,
with .395/240-grain CEB FBH at +3200 fps.
Sure to open!
Rusty McGee is building another .395 Tatanka now: CZ 550 Magnum in CZ Kevlar stock, with about a No.4 contour barrel of 23-24" length.
That might slow the 26"-barreled +3300 fps load down to +3200 fps.
Letter Rip

RIP,
Good to hear! Did you order enough to take us to 500 bullets for a next level price break? I did 300 myself.

Regarding the MTH Y01s will work in a Ruger std box depending on case OAL.

Dave,
The CEB website has quite a few photographs of their bullet performance on game...you might want to check it out.

RIP

You don't owe me anything! So don't go there! LOL.... But, I will get some from both you and Jim to do a pretty good test with. Lower end velocities would be nice to know I think. And the 500 MDM can get some rather high velocity with them I suspect as well. We can put them through hell and back, see how they do, so when you take them out, you will know what you have. And of course ya'll know I can always find a use for a new bullet myself too! I also emptied a lot of shelves with my cabinet project the other week! HEH.... I have more room now!

Talon is not a good name I suspect. I am sure someone will come up with a good one.

I have a huge order coming in first of the week, shipped yesterday,

Experimental--CARNIVORES-- A 458 430 gr Carnivore, a 350 gr 416 Carnivore! A new .600 projection 325 .458 Solid--as we spoke about, and a little surprise I am going to hold until I get photos and test work in! So next week will be a busy week for test work! Total, I have over 1300 bullets on the way! Excellent!

Michael

Jim,
I ordered 200, plus your 300 makes 500. See if that gets you a price break. Can't remember what he quoted me as price, just happy to get in on it at the last minute. Will wait and see.

Letter Rip

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
Somehow I don't think this is an "anecdote" thread anymore I was hoping someone would regale us with how the bullets worked in the field.

I did that in June? OR July? I gave you seven buffalo, croc, elephant, hippo, and a waterbuck? Don't that count for nothing?

Michael

Sorry Michael. I should have said 'additional" field reports