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405 Win +P? Login/Join
 
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Has anyone tried using the 9,3x74 brass to make a +P 405 Win? That could make the 1895 lever action more interesting. Maybe 55k psi?


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Posts: 27615 | Location: Where tech companies are trying to control you and brainwash you. | Registered: 29 April 2005Reply With Quote
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Can you specify what velocity you wish to attain with which bullets? You may be able to accomplish your goals with somewhat less effort.

My 1895 .405 becomes pretty interesting with 400 grain Woodies at 2070 fps and I do not know just how much more recoil I would want with that rifle. Eeker


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Posts: 2294 | Location: Republic of Texas | Registered: 25 May 2009Reply With Quote
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Thank you for the reply. Not looking for a specific velocity but an easy performance boost due to low CIP PSI on factory ammo. I like this cart for lighter than 400 grain bullets. I think a high velocity 300 grain bullet would be interesting with the higher CIP spec brass.


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Posts: 27615 | Location: Where tech companies are trying to control you and brainwash you. | Registered: 29 April 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by crshelton:
Can you specify what velocity you wish to attain with which bullets? You may be able to accomplish your goals with somewhat less effort.

My 1895 .405 becomes pretty interesting with 400 grain Woodies at 2070 fps and I do not know just how much more recoil I would want with that rifle. Eeker

clap Fine work Sir! clap


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Posts: 997 | Location: Florida - A Little North of Tampa  | Registered: 07 August 2012Reply With Quote
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Check rgb posts on a 405 encore. No need to use other brass


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Posts: 40092 | Location: Conroe, TX | Registered: 01 June 2002Reply With Quote
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The problem on hot rodding a 1895 in 405 is the basic action sesign with its long rear locking bolt. Even if the gun can take the loads, you will get brass stretching.

Bob Hagle has some good articles in Handloader and rifle in the 1895 in several different calibres.

Personally I do not see how even a couple of hundred fps would make a difference with a 300 grain bullet, as with its iron sights it shoots plenty flat for me.

When I wanted to improve the "power/killing ability, etc." of my 405 I went from the Hornady 300gr bullets to the North Fork 300gr bullets.

After it is the bullet that does all the work.


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Posts: 16134 | Location: Texas | Registered: 06 April 2002Reply With Quote
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What NE450 no 2 said +1 about going to North Fork bullets.
My N133 loads move out 300 grain NFs at 2250fps (same as Hornady 300 grain factory ammo in my 1895)and they shoot through most anything that I can hit with a peep sight.
These N133 loads operate at an average pressure of 25,000 PSI and the factory Hornady 300 grainers average 33,833 psi; all using the Pressure Trace II system.
BTW, the chamber has been reamed to allow crimping the 400 grain Woodies at their cannelures and this may help explain the above measured pressures being less than you normally see in the loading manuals. Cool


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Posts: 2294 | Location: Republic of Texas | Registered: 25 May 2009Reply With Quote
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Just use Hornady .405 brass and 410 gr bullets with a new cannelure cut .25 further out and a custom throat reamer in a Encore or other SS Rifle ( Ruger) to accomodate the round. Easy to get 2100fps with a 400 gr bullet. Powder was H414. Pressure under 65KPSI. They probably wont fit in any magazine rifle so no danger there, although I did consider reworking a New browning M1895 to handle it. Dropped that Idea when I realized the pressure the cartridge developed and didnt trust the design.
I wrote about this probably 10 years ago and some members here have shot my Encore. TC confirmed that the Encore could handle the pressure too! I call it the Mini-Canon. The idea was to duplicate the ballistics of a 450-400 with a .405 win. It definitely can be done.-Rob


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Posts: 6314 | Location: Las Vegas,NV | Registered: 10 January 2001Reply With Quote
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Rob,
Some interesting parallels in your experience and mine with the .405 WCF and 400 grain bullets in Hornady brass.

In my Miroku/Winchester 1895 rifle with the extended chamber, the pressure averaged 48,400 psi using TAC to attain 2070 fps, which is where we stopped as it was the velocity at which a friends 450-400 double was regulated and he told me that was enough; his two 450-400 doubles had taken considerable DG for himself and clients, so I agreed.
Since then, I have determined other powders that will attain that velocity but with less pressure and I do not recommend the use of TAC to reach 2100 fps, especially in an 1895 with a factory chamber, because the pressures could easily exceed 50,000 psi and it makes no sense to me to risk damage such a fine handling and shooting rifle for the sake of a little more velocity. I gave the remainder of my TAC to my son for his .223.
I have plans to use one of the VV double based powders to generate 2100 fps with lower pressures when my honey-do list gives me the time. Wink


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Posts: 2294 | Location: Republic of Texas | Registered: 25 May 2009Reply With Quote
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yes, I too felt the 1895 even with modern steels should not be pushed over 50K and I could not find a powder that would get me to 2100 with a 410 gr bullet without exceeding that pressure limit. I don't remember if TAC was even around then and I never had any to try anyway. I just basically loaded the bullet out and gained another 10 gr of power capacity. worked great in the SS Encore and with a matching 270 win barrel gave me a takedown rifle I could take in a inconspicuous briefcase anwhere in the world to hunt anything.-Rob


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Posts: 6314 | Location: Las Vegas,NV | Registered: 10 January 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by crshelton:
What NE450 no 2 said +1 about going to North Fork bullets.
My N133 loads move out 300 grain NFs at 2250fps (same as Hornady 300 grain factory ammo in my 1895)and they shoot through most anything that I can hit with a peep sight.
These N133 loads operate at an average pressure of 25,000 PSI and the factory Hornady 300 grainers average 33,833 psi; all using the Pressure Trace II system.
BTW, the chamber has been reamed to allow crimping the 400 grain Woodies at their cannelures and this may help explain the above measured pressures being less than you normally see in the loading manuals. Cool


This! Great accuracy with the 300gr NF solids as well which I am sure will shoot through just about anything. I also achieved the same accuracy and POI with the TSX out of both my Jap 95. Shot through both shoulders of a 250+ hog in Texas last May leaving a pretty nice X sized hole on exit. I did install a Williams peep and I would have no problems taking shots up to 200 yards with it.


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Posts: 7149 | Location: Orange Park, Florida. USA | Registered: 22 March 2001Reply With Quote
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I have a Browning 1895 which was made a 3006, pressure was no problem with a 3006, I had it chambered into a 9.3x62 and I push 286 grain bullet to 2350fps with a 20 inch barrel no problems at all, one of the best rifles I have ever owned
 
Posts: 108 | Registered: 19 March 2008Reply With Quote
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Jorge,
Funny that you should mention shooting a Texas hog --
quote:
Shot through both shoulders of a 250+ hog in Texas last May leaving a pretty nice X sized hole on exit.


I will be in Hondo in two weeks hunting hogs and exotics with my .405. I am not yet sure which loads I will use, but will try a couple of different ones at the rifle range tomorrow and let you know after the hunt how it went.


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Posts: 2294 | Location: Republic of Texas | Registered: 25 May 2009Reply With Quote
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I've not seen the charm of trying to make the 405 into cannon. I got Mountain Molds to make me a 350 grain gas checked bullet mold. I'm to cheap to pay the absurd prices jacketed bullets cost. ( Al though I did buy a bunch of 300 grain blems a while back. My grand sons can play with them.)
I use a case full of IMR 3031 with hard cast bullets. I suspect that that load would drop anything the heavier loads would drop.

Jim


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Posts: 6173 | Location: Richmond, Virginia | Registered: 17 September 2000Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by crshelton:
Jorge,
Funny that you should mention shooting a Texas hog --
quote:
Shot through both shoulders of a 250+ hog in Texas last May leaving a pretty nice X sized hole on exit.


I will be in Hondo in two weeks hunting hogs and exotics with my .405. I am not yet sure which loads I will use, but will try a couple of different ones at the rifle range tomorrow and let you know after the hunt how it went.


Let us know! I'm sure the North Forks will do very well, but man those TSXs fit well in the 405 and penetrate!


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Posts: 7149 | Location: Orange Park, Florida. USA | Registered: 22 March 2001Reply With Quote
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Also, another thing to consider, is that the 400gr bullets in the 450/400 3", Jeffery, using the Tropical load, 55 gr of Cordite, probably did not break 1950fps in the short Jeffery 22" barrels commonly used on many of those doubles.

In all the old hunting books I have read I have never seen any complaints about the lack oif a 450/400's killing power or penetration in Tigers, Lions, Cape Buff Rino,or Elephants...


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Posts: 16134 | Location: Texas | Registered: 06 April 2002Reply With Quote
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Judge G used a highly modified 405 Win in his new model 95 Win rifle..He had the throat lengthened to seat bullets way out. He got 450-400 balistics with 400 gr. bullets and with the long throat I suspect pressures didn't change much at all..He killed buffalo with it..

It would seem to me that would be the route to go..A well known gunsmith did the work and approved of it..

Maybe you should contact the Judge and get his opinnion on it..It would be an awesome buffalo or elk gun IMO...


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Posts: 42228 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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