OK, I errored and used originaly CUP instead of PSI. I changed the headding, and leave the original posting, not to confuse new readers.

How about it? Loaded to 45.000cup it gave 2250 f/s with a 300 grs bullet. How much would it be able to give at 60.000 cup? Anyone tried it?

This is interesting for me, because of my project with the .423-240Wea'by, wich have about the same amount of water capasity. With a 400 grs .423 it have room for about 58 grs of powder, loaded to 3.340".
Would it ever be able to push a 400 grs at 2100 f/s?

OK, I searched and found this stuff from ASS-CLOWN, but he did'ny get much credit.

quote:

Originally posted by ASS_CLOWN:

<br />Magnum are BORING!!!
<br />
<br />405 Win ASS_CLOWN Improved
<br />
<br />400 gr Woodleigh - 2100 fps (24" barrel)
<br />No factory load for comparison, but 300 gr Factory load clocked an ANEMIC 2218 fps.
<br />
<br />
<br />300gr Hornady FP @ 2542 fps (24" barrel)
<br />405 Hornady factory load - 300 gr @ 2218 fps (same 24" barrel)

I understand he was a notorious troll. But still, are there hope? If he made 2100 with a 400grs .411, I should be able to get the same with a .423 with lower preassure.....?

Bent,

Have you looked at the data at Hodgdon's site? They show the 400gr Woodleigh bullet at 1,945 with H4895. I use two grains more Varget than they show as max in my #1 and get a bit over 2,000fps with the same bullet seated to the cannelure (sp).

It's safe (so far) in my rifle but may not be in your's (or anybody elses). As for AssClown, we don't even know for sure if he was old enough to own a rifle and his chronograph was based on how fast his fingers could type "stuff" on his keyboard.

quote:

ASS-CLOWN, but he did'ny get much credit.

If I was standing in the rain and he told me it was raining I would seek another opinion.

I can't find any data with the 405 loaded to 60,000. Taking the lower pressure data extending the pressure line I can get 2000-2100?

In the what it's worth department. My 416PDK had 82.2grs of gross water capacity. Using my 4895 load I back calculate a net capacity of 62.7. My load is a compressed 67 grs and a 400Hawke gives me 2205 from a 24". Best accuracy was 2 grs less at 2160.

Why stop at 3.34"? Seat the bullet out and maximize your net capacity.

Thanks Rich and Paul!

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:

Why stop at 3.34"? Seat the bullet out and maximize your net capacity.

Well.....I am a bit weird about the looks of the cartridge..... Seating the bullet below the cannelure is somewhat not ineresting.
Does anybody know of a .423 400 grs bullet without cannelure?

Are you sure you mean 60,000 CUP? That could be running as high as 73,000 PSI!!! 55,000 CUP could be as high as 65,000 PSI. I would think for a bolt action rifle 55,000 CUP/65,000 PSI is about as high as one should take most any cartridge. With 58 grains of case powder capacity under a .423" 400 grain bullet I would think it is highly likely one could obtain 2100 fps (24" barrel). The 45-70 with a 400 grain bullet seated to 2.55" COL uses less powder than that yet achieves 2100 fps in the Ruger #1 at about 57,000 PSI.

60,000 CUP?...let me put it in a way you Norwegians will understand..... OOFDA

corbin makes a canalure tool to put one wherever you want...it does not matter if it has two...think of it as racing stripes

It would depend a lot on seating depth and OAL and whether the throat would allow it. The longer the better. I don't know what the Ruger has but I doubt that the 1885 and 1895 are any different, as far as throat goes, as they are both made by Miroku. I thnk your numbers are realistic (except the 60 CUP part ). I have a pressure barrel in 405 but never have used it yet. Squeaky wheel gets the grease and the 405 doesn't squeak.

Bent- I have developed loads for a Thompson center Encore rifle in .405 win which will indeed hit 2100fps with a 410ge bullet. I used 64.7 grs of compressed H414 ( delivered through a 24 inch drop tube) but the critical thing is the gun is throated out .25 inches and I seat the long Woodleigh out .25 inches and make a new cannelure for crimping. The cartridge actually looks pretty cool. This load is approaching 65KPSI which is safe in the encore, but I would not shoot it in a M1895 even if it would chamber. The little beast duplicates the great 450-400. Others on this board have shot it. Including 470 MBOGO and Jeffeosso. You can do the same thing with a Ruger Number 1. An Encore set up this way in .405 win and a .270 win barrel makes for a very inconspicuous African one- gun hunting package. With those two calibers you can hunt anything that walks this planet.
I gave ASS Clown his name and I if his lips were moving he was always telling a lie. He had some severe mental problems and I assume he eventually went to a funny farm. We will probably read about him someday committing some atrocity. I suspect however he just changed his name and writing style and is still amongst us.-Rob

Thanks everybody!
Yea, the CUP-error was a bad one, I read about the .405 and CUP's were used. Sorry.
I guess a less confident man would be embarassed...

Anyway, Interesting to hear what you guys are getting out of the .405, there still might be hope for the .404 Capstick!

there sure is!

for those who dont know it is the 240 wby necked up to 423.

hey bent...

the other options instead of using expensive 240 brass is to swage a belt on 06 brass. (or 62,66,35 whelen ect)
buy cylindrical 06 brass and swage the belt then neck to 423

this method we can lengthen the brass and increase performance by going to say 2.65" on the brass length.

until then just recanalure the bullet and seat out another .15"

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
there sure is!

for those who dont know it is the 240 wby necked up to 423.

hey bent...

the other options instead of using expensive 240 brass is to swage a belt on 06 brass. (or 62,66,35 whelen ect)
buy cylindrical 06 brass and swage the belt then neck to 423

this method we can lengthen the brass and increase performance by going to say 2.65" on the brass length.

until then just recanalure the bullet and seat out another .15"

Hot dang and diddelidodo...........
The 9,3x66!!! In the Win70! Drop belly, 6/7 down!400grs .423 at 2300 f/s!!

Naah - it aint the same. I'm gonna make that .240 case work. If iy does not, I'll ream out to 10,75x68 and put the .404 Capstick reamer in a frame and title it " I did it my way! "

Bent,

What type of rifle action are you planning to use this cartridge in?

Are you planning this around a single shot like the Ruger?
If so, why not just take the common 9.3X74 case, and use that as the basis of your "Super 405", which would be longer than the 405.

People used to use 9.3X74 brass to make 405 Winchester brass when it wasn't readily available. It's easy to trim back to the shorter 405 length, but in a single shot the length wouldn't be an issue anyway.

If it's going into a bolt action rifle, why not just do one of the 400 Whelen Improved cartridges? Maybe add a longer throat to the rifle chamber while you're at it.

Garrett

the 405 question is regarding capacity...he is making a 423 based wildcat with the same capacity as the 405

Why would anyone want to do such a thing? I am sure it can be done with a Ruger No. 1, but the beauty of a .405 is the new 95 Win.

Some here have opened up the throats on the 95s and they got some real velocity at close to 2000 FPS plus. Im not sold on that idea on those old lever guns, but if it works for them so be it.

I think it is a exercise in futility, If I had a perfectly good No. 1, I would just buy it in .404, or 458 Win. and have a better round than the .405.

Bent,

55.5 gr of IMR4895 runs ~ 2100 fps with the 400gr Woodleigh SN in my M1895 Win reproduction. The barrel length is 24".

These winnie repops have very short throats so seating at the cannelure of the Woodleigh requires that the case be shortened significantly.

By the way, the load listed above is HIGHLY compressed 110%. Drawing from memory Quickload places it around 60000 psi to 62000 psi. I would consider this the MAX for MY rifle (M1895) which was never chambered for anything stiffer than a 30-06 or 270 Win.

I strongly recommend that you start with the Hodgdon data and work your way up!

So it can be done, but as Ray has asked why?

scott...why not re throat???

bottom line bent is 400@ 2150 in a 240 wby case is possible

One needs to shorten the cases to get them to fit the magazine and the throat limitations. So re-throating the M1895 is not worthwhile if a repeating rifle is desired.

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:I gave ASS Clown his name and I if his lips were moving he was always telling a lie. He had some severe mental problems and I assume he eventually went to a funny farm.
.-Rob

Rob,
Yes, Yes, and yes.. and he posts as....

quote:

Originally posted by ScottS:
<lips moving>

jeffeosso,

I assure you my lips were not moving when I typed my above posts on this thread. The truth is still the same even if you do not like the messenger, sorry about that.

Not sure how Rob get a Woodleigh to seat over 67 gr of H4895 with only moving said Woodleigh out .25". 110% compression with a 36" drop tube occurs around 61 gr with the Woodleigh seated 0.25" further out COL = 3.47" (at least it does in my batch of Hornady brass). I would also expect a much higher muzzle velocity than 2100 fps with such a heavy powder charge!

Scott- I THOUGHT SO! IT'S STILL PRETTY EASY TO FLUSH YOU OUT. I had a bet we would hook you. Bet I KNOW YOUR NEW ALIAS TOO. You out on probation?-ROB

Rob,

Seriously no flushing out I have been posting here as ScottS for quite sometime. Granted I seldom post anymore, but I still do on rare occasions.

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder: Bent- I have developed loads for a Thompson center Encore rifle in .405 win which will indeed hit 2100fps with a 410ge bullet. I used 67 grs of compressed H4895 ( delivered through a 24 inch drop tube) but the critical thing is the gun is throated out .25 inches and I seat the long Woodleigh out .25 inches and make a new cannelure for crimping. The cartridge actually looks pretty cool. This load is approaching 65KPSI which is safe in the encore

Out of curiosity I ran your load through Quickload and the results are somewhat scary!

Quickload predicts a muzzle velocity of 2323 fps at a chamber pressure of 85,334 psi!!!!!!!!!
Case fill was 119.9% (just a tad compressed).

Are you sure that is the correct load Rob, you may want to double check your notes.

By the way I was using a 24" barrel and a COL of 3.425". If barrel length and/or COL are off tell me the correct values and I will gladly rerun the simulation.

I saw that hornady will manufacture and sell the "The Brittany Boddington" 400 grain .405 load now.

The load will be for ruger nr 1 rifles Only.

It takes a redhead girl to get a new load out to the hunters.

ScottS- I ACTUALLY DID GET THAT ONE WRONG! The last loads I developed in the .405 win was with H4895 so that stuck in my mind alsong with the number. My memory just isn't perfect. The load was/is 64.7 gr of H414 (oal 3.582). Go look it up on quickload. It's still a smoker! Encorers are real tough though!
Scotts- What a Pathetic turd you are. I'll bet you actually tried to get 67 grs into a case just to prove me wrong! Ha Ha Ha! Dufus!Your such a ASS-CLOWN!-respectfully-Rob

Judge G had his .405 throated and modified to seat the bullets out to a longer length and he got some pretty fantastic velocities. He killed a Cape Buffalo with us and that gun. It was one of the new models. That approach sounds feasible to me.

Ray,

How did JudgeG get his magazine well lengthened in the M1895 to accomodate the longer COL?

Rob,
Quickload says 2044 fps @ 49000 psi for your latest load.

I think it is stupid to try to turn a wonderful old ctg. like the .405 Win into something that it is not! Dr.C

quote:

Originally posted by mr rigby:
I saw that hornady will manufacture and sell the "The Brittany Boddington" 400 grain .405 load now.

The load will be for ruger nr 1 rifles Only.

It takes a redhead girl to get a new load out to the hunters.

Mr. Rigby,

Guess they'll be using the same bullet as their 450-400 loading. Sounds great to me, where did you hear this?

Hello, Ray or JudgeG! How did throating help get the muzzle velocity up in the M1895 when the magazine length is the primary limiting factor?

Ernest had a well know gunsmith do the modification, don't know the details of the modification, but apparantly it worked quit well....You will have to ask Ernest. I tried to trade him out of the gun but to no avail, he kept changing the subject!!

I recall he was getting 404 Jefferys velocity with it and 400 gr. bullets of about 2000 plus FPS....

I know if Ernest says that is what he got then that is what he got. He had to have some magazine work as the bullets could be set out quit far as I recall..

Ray,

Thanks for the additional comments, hopefully the Judge will chime in.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
corbin makes a canalure tool to put one wherever you want...

Can you provide a bit more info (or a link)on this? Sounds like just the ticket for my .444.

Thanks in advance!

http://www.corbins.com/index.htm

or

http://www.bulletswage.com/hct-1.htm

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
http://www.corbins.com/index.htm

or

http://www.bulletswage.com/hct-1.htm

Notice it says that it works well w/ hard cast, but not soft lead. Have you ever used this product on H/C?

Out of necessity, I've been using a LeeFCD w/ H/C bullets for the 444, but it's kind of a PITA - & hard on the brass....

No one seems to make a gas checked .432" H/C bullet, w/ the cannelure in the right place for correct COL.

on the website it shows jacketed softs. i think it was giving you ideas on how to use it. i have not used it but others here have and all corbin stuff is top noch...i think jeffeosso might have one and you can call corbin for more info. good luck.